OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
In a winner take all Game 7 to save humanity, do we choose Spencer Dinwiddie or Prime Michael Jordan? I really don’t have a good answer for this one...


I mean. Bugs called upon MJ.
But Spencer might not have been born yet. If he were of age to ball, you know Spencer would have gotten the "What's up doc?"
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Ok. Let's think this out.

OP is a big DLo fan.
DLo gets sent packing and is replaced by Lonzo.
OP then follows DLo to Brooklyn so he watches a lot of Nets games.
OP then brings up Spencer to throw shade at Lonzo.
I wonder why.


Pretty much.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:17 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
In a winner take all Game 7 to save humanity, do we choose Spencer Dinwiddie or Prime Michael Jordan? I really don’t have a good answer for this one...


Jordan has retired and the mantle has been passed. The Spencer is the guardian at the gates of chaos and destruction.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:23 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
In a winner take all Game 7 to save humanity, do we choose Spencer Dinwiddie or Prime Michael Jordan? I really don’t have a good answer for this one...

It's close, but I know who I want taking that final shot: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iLA8GeEBo8I

Iconic.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

In basketball, the true all-time greats only need one name.

Michael
Wilt
Magic
Kareem

...SPENCER
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject:

Spencer Dinwiddle has TV spots featuring Nike.

Dos Equis' "most interesting man in the world" is a Spencer Dinwiddie fanboy.

To keep the competition balanced and suspenseful, the IOOC is requiring Spencer Dinwiddie to represent Antarctica at the 2020 Summer Games.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject:

Intlakeshow wrote:
A lot of Lonzo talk in the Spencer Dinwiddie thread, maybe it’s time the kid gets his own, get on it mods!


This one made me laugh.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Intlakeshow wrote:
A lot of Lonzo talk in the Spencer Dinwiddie thread, maybe it’s time the kid gets his own, get on it mods!

This one made me laugh.

Very, very nice Intlakeshow.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Intlakeshow wrote:
A lot of Lonzo talk in the Spencer Dinwiddie thread, maybe it’s time the kid gets his own, get on it mods!


This one made me laugh.


MJ should wear Air Spencers was the best.

I won’t go back to find out the author, but
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My favorite part about the Dinwiddie arguments is that despite being 3 years older than Lonzo, with basics statistically, Lonzo is already (basically) on par or considerably better, except for 1 category. FT%.

(Edited)
(Edited)

I would rate Spencer in the lower tier of starting pgs in the nba, so you can imagine how I rate Lonzo than.
By ESPN Real Plus Minus (RPM),

Dinwiddie: Offensive RPM 2.61 (#11), Defensive RPM -0.21 (#39), Total RPM 2.40 (#13)

Ball: Offensive RPM -1.19 (#64), Defensive RPM 2.31 (#3), Total RPM 1.12 (#21)

Interestingly, ESPN RPM backs up the arguments by both Mike and K. Dinwiddie is in a "lower tier" of pgs (at #13) and Ball is even worse.

Ball had a bad rookie year on offense--led by his atrocious FT%--but once Ball fixes that and other aspects of his offensive game, Ball could be in the top tier of point guards--unlike Dinwiddie who already has had the time he needs to show what he will become.

Dinwiddie had a pretty nasty ACL tear at the end of his final college season, which dropped him down draft boards and delayed his progress his first season on a discombobulated Pistons team.

Of course, Lonzo as a freshman at UCLA was better than Dinwiddie as a college junior and produced a rookie season at age 20 that is on par with Dinwiddie's best year this past season at age 25. Despite the troll, Dinwiddie's development and talent can be appreciated while acknowledging that Lonzo has the higher ceiling and could surpass Dinwiddie as early as this upcoming season.


Hard to say he has a better ceiling though.

Lonzo was predicted to be very good as a rookie, not much of a high ceiling, developmental player.

Besides the age, what makes you think he has a higher ceiling? It's not like he is some raw athlete with freakish measurements like Ingram.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Spencer Dinwiddie lol


True. One guy is significantly better than the other.


Pretty sure this guy thought Smush Parker had all-star potential back in the day.


Imagine, if you guys write the things u do on a nba neutral forum and see what the feedback would be like.


"Neutral" NBA forums are full of regular fans whose impressions of other players are largely based off of marketing efforts. Write anything about Lonzo in a "neutral" NBA forum and watch how many times the word "LaVar" follows soon thereafter.

People in the NBA know that Lonzo can hoop, they aren't having silly conversations like this. These are strictly message board conversations.


Actually, Spencer is viewed highly or at least with sports writers, hence why he finished third in MIP voting this season. It's not like he plays for the Knicks or Lakers, he plays for the Nets, a team where their stadium routinely roots for the opposition more than their home team. He also received more votes than randle and ingram combined.

So, honestly, Spencer must of done something right this past season.

It's weird how people are making it seem like the comparison is preposterous. However, it's probably because none of them watch him play last season
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject:

kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Spencer Dinwiddie lol


True. One guy is significantly better than the other.


Pretty sure this guy thought Smush Parker had all-star potential back in the day.


Imagine, if you guys write the things u do on a nba neutral forum and see what the feedback would be like.



https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1746431

Here you go champ, let's see what happens.
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kawhileonard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Spencer Dinwiddie lol


True. One guy is significantly better than the other.


Pretty sure this guy thought Smush Parker had all-star potential back in the day.


Imagine, if you guys write the things u do on a nba neutral forum and see what the feedback would be like.



https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1746431

Here you go champ, let's see what happens.


Nice, but you should put it in the general thread. Most people don't look at player comparison threads on realgm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject:

kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Spencer Dinwiddie lol


True. One guy is significantly better than the other.


Pretty sure this guy thought Smush Parker had all-star potential back in the day.


Imagine, if you guys write the things u do on a nba neutral forum and see what the feedback would be like.



https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1746431

Here you go champ, let's see what happens.


Nice, but you should put it in the general thread. Most people don't look at player comparison threads on realgm


I did, it got moved.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Spencer Dinwiddie lol


True. One guy is significantly better than the other.


Pretty sure this guy thought Smush Parker had all-star potential back in the day.


Imagine, if you guys write the things u do on a nba neutral forum and see what the feedback would be like.



https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1746431

Here you go champ, let's see what happens.


Nice, but you should put it in the general thread. Most people don't look at player comparison threads on realgm


I did, it got moved.


This test should be evidence enough.
10-7 Spencer over Lonzo.
I guess Spencer is better than Lonzo last year.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Seems Spencer had the damaged part of his meniscus removed instead of having it repaired.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject:

kawhileonard wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My favorite part about the Dinwiddie arguments is that despite being 3 years older than Lonzo, with basics statistically, Lonzo is already (basically) on par or considerably better, except for 1 category. FT%.

(Edited)
(Edited)

I would rate Spencer in the lower tier of starting pgs in the nba, so you can imagine how I rate Lonzo than.
By ESPN Real Plus Minus (RPM),

Dinwiddie: Offensive RPM 2.61 (#11), Defensive RPM -0.21 (#39), Total RPM 2.40 (#13)

Ball: Offensive RPM -1.19 (#64), Defensive RPM 2.31 (#3), Total RPM 1.12 (#21)

Interestingly, ESPN RPM backs up the arguments by both Mike and K. Dinwiddie is in a "lower tier" of pgs (at #13) and Ball is even worse.

Ball had a bad rookie year on offense--led by his atrocious FT%--but once Ball fixes that and other aspects of his offensive game, Ball could be in the top tier of point guards--unlike Dinwiddie who already has had the time he needs to show what he will become.

Dinwiddie had a pretty nasty ACL tear at the end of his final college season, which dropped him down draft boards and delayed his progress his first season on a discombobulated Pistons team.

Of course, Lonzo as a freshman at UCLA was better than Dinwiddie as a college junior and produced a rookie season at age 20 that is on par with Dinwiddie's best year this past season at age 25. Despite the troll, Dinwiddie's development and talent can be appreciated while acknowledging that Lonzo has the higher ceiling and could surpass Dinwiddie as early as this upcoming season.


Hard to say he has a better ceiling though.

Lonzo was predicted to be very good as a rookie, not much of a high ceiling, developmental player.

Besides the age, what makes you think he has a higher ceiling? It's not like he is some raw athlete with freakish measurements like Ingram.

Production by age is the most important factor for upside projection. Lonzo has been much better than Dinwiddie by age. He's a comparable passer and better defender now and has four more years to catch up to Dinwiddie as a ball-handler and overall shooter/scorer. Hence, more upside.

Also, upside doesn't have to be dependent on freakish physical tools. Skill upside is more important, though players who can combine both attributes tend to be generational - see Lebron and KD.
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kawhileonard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My favorite part about the Dinwiddie arguments is that despite being 3 years older than Lonzo, with basics statistically, Lonzo is already (basically) on par or considerably better, except for 1 category. FT%.

(Edited)
(Edited)

I would rate Spencer in the lower tier of starting pgs in the nba, so you can imagine how I rate Lonzo than.
By ESPN Real Plus Minus (RPM),

Dinwiddie: Offensive RPM 2.61 (#11), Defensive RPM -0.21 (#39), Total RPM 2.40 (#13)

Ball: Offensive RPM -1.19 (#64), Defensive RPM 2.31 (#3), Total RPM 1.12 (#21)

Interestingly, ESPN RPM backs up the arguments by both Mike and K. Dinwiddie is in a "lower tier" of pgs (at #13) and Ball is even worse.

Ball had a bad rookie year on offense--led by his atrocious FT%--but once Ball fixes that and other aspects of his offensive game, Ball could be in the top tier of point guards--unlike Dinwiddie who already has had the time he needs to show what he will become.

Dinwiddie had a pretty nasty ACL tear at the end of his final college season, which dropped him down draft boards and delayed his progress his first season on a discombobulated Pistons team.

Of course, Lonzo as a freshman at UCLA was better than Dinwiddie as a college junior and produced a rookie season at age 20 that is on par with Dinwiddie's best year this past season at age 25. Despite the troll, Dinwiddie's development and talent can be appreciated while acknowledging that Lonzo has the higher ceiling and could surpass Dinwiddie as early as this upcoming season.


Hard to say he has a better ceiling though.

Lonzo was predicted to be very good as a rookie, not much of a high ceiling, developmental player.

Besides the age, what makes you think he has a higher ceiling? It's not like he is some raw athlete with freakish measurements like Ingram.

Production by age is the most important factor for upside projection. Lonzo has been much better than Dinwiddie by age. He's a comparable passer and better defender now and has four more years to catch up to Dinwiddie as a ball-handler and overall shooter/scorer. Hence, more upside.

Also, upside doesn't have to be dependent on freakish physical tools. Skill upside is more important, though players who can combine both attributes tend to be generational - see Lebron and KD.


Production by age doesn't really indicate upside potential. Some guys just have better chances/opportunities early in their careers or are ready body wise.

Perfect example was Okafor. Dude would of definitely won ROTY had he not missed half the season, but he was scoring buckets for fun.

In reference to Lonzo, what upside do you see? An explosive combo guard? or basically Ricky Rubio.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject:

kawhileonard wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My favorite part about the Dinwiddie arguments is that despite being 3 years older than Lonzo, with basics statistically, Lonzo is already (basically) on par or considerably better, except for 1 category. FT%.

(Edited)
(Edited)

I would rate Spencer in the lower tier of starting pgs in the nba, so you can imagine how I rate Lonzo than.
By ESPN Real Plus Minus (RPM),

Dinwiddie: Offensive RPM 2.61 (#11), Defensive RPM -0.21 (#39), Total RPM 2.40 (#13)

Ball: Offensive RPM -1.19 (#64), Defensive RPM 2.31 (#3), Total RPM 1.12 (#21)

Interestingly, ESPN RPM backs up the arguments by both Mike and K. Dinwiddie is in a "lower tier" of pgs (at #13) and Ball is even worse.

Ball had a bad rookie year on offense--led by his atrocious FT%--but once Ball fixes that and other aspects of his offensive game, Ball could be in the top tier of point guards--unlike Dinwiddie who already has had the time he needs to show what he will become.

Dinwiddie had a pretty nasty ACL tear at the end of his final college season, which dropped him down draft boards and delayed his progress his first season on a discombobulated Pistons team.

Of course, Lonzo as a freshman at UCLA was better than Dinwiddie as a college junior and produced a rookie season at age 20 that is on par with Dinwiddie's best year this past season at age 25. Despite the troll, Dinwiddie's development and talent can be appreciated while acknowledging that Lonzo has the higher ceiling and could surpass Dinwiddie as early as this upcoming season.


Hard to say he has a better ceiling though.

Lonzo was predicted to be very good as a rookie, not much of a high ceiling, developmental player.

Besides the age, what makes you think he has a higher ceiling? It's not like he is some raw athlete with freakish measurements like Ingram.

Production by age is the most important factor for upside projection. Lonzo has been much better than Dinwiddie by age. He's a comparable passer and better defender now and has four more years to catch up to Dinwiddie as a ball-handler and overall shooter/scorer. Hence, more upside.

Also, upside doesn't have to be dependent on freakish physical tools. Skill upside is more important, though players who can combine both attributes tend to be generational - see Lebron and KD.


Production by age doesn't really indicate upside potential.
Some guys just have better chances/opportunities early in their careers or are ready body wise.

Perfect example was Okafor. Dude would of definitely won ROTY had he not missed half the season, but he was scoring buckets for fun.

In reference to Lonzo, what upside do you see? An explosive combo guard? or basically Ricky Rubio.

Yes, yes it very much does. Since you're a Dinwiddie fan and the greatest argument for Dinwiddie's value is his sexy RPM, you could poke around the internet and find some interesting articles on the correlation between draft age and peak production in the NBA along with longitudinal impact by production by age, not just anecdotal counting stats for a never was like Okafor. A Spencer Dinwiddie fan should be a fan of linear regression.

I don't know what Lonzo can become. No one does. He's an odd, one of a kind player. If he can shoot from three and increase his frequency of shots at the rim off cuts (both likely playing off of Lebron), he may become the über-role player. Like a guard version of Draymond Green. Or a weird Andre Iguodala. And if he ever adds more conventional scoring skills out of the PnR (not elite, but average) on top of that shooting improvement, he could easily be a HOF-caliber player. Maybe not likely, but a higher peak than our man Spencer.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

Okafor isn't even in the league anymore as of today.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Okafor isn't even in the league anymore as of today.

Amd if Lonzo never improved one iota as a shooter, he would still get a scond contract in the NBA because of his defense and passing.

The NBA passed by Okafor, sure, but he was always Eddy Curry with a better diet and a fancy pirouette
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject:

Okafor was always an empty stats player even in his rookie season. Lonzo is the polar opposite in terms of the impact he makes on a team.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject:

Arguing for Dinwiddie's RPM and then using Jahlil Okafor (ranked 417th out of 423 players in RPM as a rookie) as your supporting evidence for how production by age doesn't indicate upside potential is amazing.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject:

GT: can you make a video about which 2 of these 3 should start at the guard spot next year: DLO, Harris or Spencer? For your NetsGround.net fam.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
GT: can you make a video about which 2 of these 3 should start at the guard spot next year: DLO, Harris or Spencer? For your NetsGround.net fam.


nah screw that, GT make us a 30 minute video analyzing Spencer Dinwiddie's game and personal life. Lonzo who???? We all Spender Dinwiddie fans on this blessed day.
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