OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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LandsbergerRules
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:13 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
Lonzo Ball had the injured portion of his left meniscus removed during his July surgery.

https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/09/10/la-lakers-lonzo-ball-meniscus-injury-update-return/

Removing the meniscus instead of repairing could have long-term impacts, as outlined in this article.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/25/8105845/derrick-rose-injury-knee-surgery-bulls-meniscus-repaired-removed


If it was me I would have repaired it and rehabbed. Never a good idea to start taking out parts of the meniscus so young. I hope he heals 100% and doesn't have knee problems long term because he chose 6 weeks over 6 months.


Yeah, too bad he didn't opt to repair it right after the regular season ended in April. The 6 month rehab time would be almost over with by October.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
defense wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
Lonzo Ball had the injured portion of his left meniscus removed during his July surgery.

https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/09/10/la-lakers-lonzo-ball-meniscus-injury-update-return/

Removing the meniscus instead of repairing could have long-term impacts, as outlined in this article.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/25/8105845/derrick-rose-injury-knee-surgery-bulls-meniscus-repaired-removed


If it was me I would have repaired it and rehabbed. Never a good idea to start taking out parts of the meniscus so young. I hope he heals 100% and doesn't have knee problems long term because he chose 6 weeks over 6 months.


Yeah, too bad he didn't opt to repair it right after the regular season ended in April. The 6 month rehab time would be almost over with by October.

Again, surgery shouldn't be the first option and there was nothing irresponsible about the way it was handled.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:20 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Quote:
Itís important to understand that Lonzo didnít get his meniscus entirely removed like some NBA players have done in the past, including Dwyane Wade and Russell Westbrook. Instead, he got the damaged portion of his meniscus taken out in order for him to be ready by training camp.


https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/09/10/la-lakers-lonzo-ball-meniscus-injury-update-return/

Doesn't seem to have had any negative effects on Westbrook.


Articles I've read say Westbrook had his meniscus repaired and not removed.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject:

Im just hoping his knee holds for 65+ games

Last edited by PauPau on Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject:

Lonzo should learn whatever he can from Lebron. Lebron's shot is not good too when he was rookie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject:

Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


Last edited by lakersibleed on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject:

lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another form called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866
remember when ricky and crew had that good game vs westbrook? remember how people were like wow ricky is pretty good. people fail to realize, rick was the next great PG until we found out he was more willing to over pass than to score when it was best for him to try to score. and that he couldnt shoot and was afraid to shoot. If the guy ever got a consistent shot and could consistently score, he would be a top 5 pg in the nba. he is already a great passer, he already plays pretty darn good defense for a guy that isnt considered really athletic(Zo is more athletic and bigger than rubio.)

so i agree, i'll take ricky rubio's last years numbers for a zo 2nd year. in a heart beat.
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lakersibleed
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another form called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866
remember when ricky and crew had that good game vs westbrook? remember how people were like wow ricky is pretty good. people fail to realize, rick was the next great PG until we found out he was more willing to over pass than to score when it was best for him to try to score. and that he couldnt shoot and was afraid to shoot. If the guy ever got a consistent shot and could consistently score, he would be a top 5 pg in the nba. he is already a great passer, he already plays pretty darn good defense for a guy that isnt considered really athletic(Zo is more athletic and bigger than rubio.)

so i agree, i'll take ricky rubio's last years numbers for a zo 2nd year. in a heart beat.


Especially since he got those numbers in the playing time he was given (29.30min/gm), I think Lonzo will play about that many minutes a game this year too.

People think we expect him to jump into that top point guard discussion or something next year! All I need to see is that kind of improvement from him with his shooting... He doesnt need to be an allstar next year. Just keep improving those shooting numbers... I think he can be an allstar year 4 or 5!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject:

Could have just had Rondo assume the bulk of Lonzo's minutes as he recovered. And now it's pretty easy to see why the team prioritized backup PG (aside from the debate about whether Rondo was the right guy or not).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.


Yep... Last years numbers need to be Lonzo's 2nd years numbers... But i agree Rubio was a solid player last year...

I think Lonzo has more in his game then Rubio does! One of my favorite players to watch was Heinrich... If Lonzo could be like that for a couple of years... and then be Jkid for the rest of his career...lol... He could afford tho to show a lil Kirk Heinrich aggression on the defensive side of the ball... Like stick him on whoever is having a good night on the other team kind of defender... Same with BI...Just a lil more defensive aggression from them, because i think they have the athleticism to do it.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.

Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.

Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.

IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.

Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.

Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.

IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season.


Whether Lonzo's year 1 was better than Ricky's is debatable, so is the claim that Ball is offensively more advanced.
From 10-19 ft its 38 to 33% in Lonzo's favour with Rubio attempting more than twice as many attempts in the midrange. Rubio being a better 3 point shooter but Lonzo being better closer to the rim, which is not saying much in both cases.
Passing? Push.
Freebies? Ricky.
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Quote:
Itís important to understand that Lonzo didnít get his meniscus entirely removed like some NBA players have done in the past, including Dwyane Wade and Russell Westbrook. Instead, he got the damaged portion of his meniscus taken out in order for him to be ready by training camp.


https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2018/09/10/la-lakers-lonzo-ball-meniscus-injury-update-return/

Doesn't seem to have had any negative effects on Westbrook.


Articles I've read say Westbrook had his meniscus repaired and not removed.


Speaking of Westbrook. He's about to have another knee surgery.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24655062/russell-westbrook-arthroscopic-knee-surgery-miss-oklahoma-city-thunder-first-games
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


I find terms like complementary offensive efficiency to be buzzphrases without much substance. In simple terms, I envision an on-ball creator (LBJ) and an off-ball creator (Ball). When it clicks, there will be a lot of hockey assists. However, this scenario is contingent on Ball being enough of a shooting threat that other teams canít just play 5 on 4 defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.

Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.

Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.

IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season.


Whether Lonzo's year 1 was better than Ricky's is debatable, so is the claim that Ball is offensively more advanced.
From 10-19 ft its 38 to 33% in Lonzo's favour with Rubio attempting more than twice as many attempts in the midrange. Rubio being a better 3 point shooter but Lonzo being better closer to the rim, which is not saying much in both cases.
Passing? Push.
Freebies? Ricky.
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


Statistically maybe but itís not a debate if you watch the games.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


I find terms like complementary offensive efficiency to be buzzphrases without much substance. In simple terms, I envision an on-ball creator (LBJ) and an off-ball creator (Ball). When it clicks, there will be a lot of hockey assists. However, this scenario is contingent on Ball being enough of a shooting threat that other teams canít just play 5 on 4 defense.


We're on the same page here for the most part and its a pretty picture really, if the pieces fall into place.
Like you said, it all comes down to the shooting and yes, while a team can never have enough passing, it is possible to have too much passing to the deteriment of finishing.
This is my largest concern.

@BigGameHames I did watch some games of Ricky's first year, he came with a lot of fanfare. Still debatable...and im laker biased
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


I find terms like complementary offensive efficiency to be buzzphrases without much substance. In simple terms, I envision an on-ball creator (LBJ) and an off-ball creator (Ball). When it clicks, there will be a lot of hockey assists. However, this scenario is contingent on Ball being enough of a shooting threat that other teams canít just play 5 on 4 defense.


The double on Lebron will almost always come off of Lonzo. That means Zo better be ready when Lebron finds him open, which will be often.

Lonzo's shooting didn't disturb me as much as his inability to score in the paint. I feel like that's the area he needs to develop even more crucially than shooting. I thought he relied on the 3-ball way too much when he was left open. As a PG if he can penetrate the paint he'll be able to collapse the defense and dish to someone else. That's where Rondo wreaks havoc since he can't shoot. Ingram in year 2 also drastically improved at attacking the rim.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


I find terms like complementary offensive efficiency to be buzzphrases without much substance. In simple terms, I envision an on-ball creator (LBJ) and an off-ball creator (Ball). When it clicks, there will be a lot of hockey assists. However, this scenario is contingent on Ball being enough of a shooting threat that other teams canít just play 5 on 4 defense.


The double on Lebron will almost always come off of Lonzo. That means Zo better be ready when Lebron finds him open, which will be often.

Lonzo's shooting didn't disturb me as much as his inability to score in the paint. I feel like that's the area he needs to develop even more crucially than shooting. I thought he relied on the 3-ball way too much when he was left open. As a PG if he can penetrate the paint he'll be able to collapse the defense and dish to someone else. That's where Rondo wreaks havoc since he can't shoot. Ingram in year 2 also drastically improved at attacking the rim.


I agree. Heís a good cutter though and I expect playing with LeBron and Rondo will lead to him being rewarded for those cuts far more than he was last year and will allow him to get more easy opportunities in the paint.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron


I find terms like complementary offensive efficiency to be buzzphrases without much substance. In simple terms, I envision an on-ball creator (LBJ) and an off-ball creator (Ball). When it clicks, there will be a lot of hockey assists. However, this scenario is contingent on Ball being enough of a shooting threat that other teams canít just play 5 on 4 defense.

Has anyone ever used that phrase before? Google Trends isn't coming up with anything.

How much is your page rate?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.

Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.

Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.

IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season.


Whether Lonzo's year 1 was better than Ricky's is debatable, so is the claim that Ball is offensively more advanced.
From 10-19 ft its 38 to 33% in Lonzo's favour with Rubio attempting more than twice as many attempts in the midrange. Rubio being a better 3 point shooter but Lonzo being better closer to the rim, which is not saying much in both cases.
Passing? Push.
Freebies? Ricky.
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/lebron-effect-los-angeles-lakers-lonzo-ball-brandon-ingram-improve-2018
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PauPau
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
PauPau wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
PauPau wrote:
lakersibleed wrote:
Someone from another forum called Lonzo the next Ricky Rubio in a disparaging way.

I feel like if Lonzo can have the kind of shooting year Rubio had last year, this year will be a great building year for him!


GP MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT%
77 29.3 4.5-10.7 .418 1.2-3.5 .352 2.9-3.3 .866


I think that's pretty accurate, nothing disparaging about that. Ricky is a really good player


Sure, but bear in mind that it took Rubio until his fifth season to become a productive player on the offensive end. Rubio's numbers in his second season (at age 22) were .360/.293/.799. That won't cut it.

Rubio has been an efficient offensive player even with such a poor TS% because of a robust ATR on lower usage combined with his ability to manufacture trips to the line and hit ≥80% of his attempts. Rubio has always struggled finishing at the rim, he's never developed much of a floater, and he's only in the past few seasons improved his pull-up jumper rather than remaining a static, standstill set shooter.

Lonzo has a lot of skill work to do, of course, but he's more offensively advanced than Rubio by age because he's entered the league with a true (if ugly) jumpshot and he's flashed a floater and a two-level pull-up jumper already. Moreover, where Rubio may be a little more quick laterally, Lonzo is much more explosive off of two feet, which makes him a viable lob threat as a cutter.

IMO, Lonzo has an easier path towards complementary offensive efficiency while continuing to improve as an on-ball creator whereas young Rubio was more like Rondo in needing the ball in his hands to provide positive offensive value (which came through free throws, passing, and avoiding jumpshots like the plague). So I'd expect Lonzo's TS% to rise - perhaps precipitously - alongside another playmaker with gravity who can leverage Lonzo's off-ball craftiness, while Zo can better exploit scrambling defenses with his passing. Basically, I doubt young Rubio would've been as efficient as I think Lonzo will be playing off Lebron next season.


Whether Lonzo's year 1 was better than Ricky's is debatable, so is the claim that Ball is offensively more advanced.
From 10-19 ft its 38 to 33% in Lonzo's favour with Rubio attempting more than twice as many attempts in the midrange. Rubio being a better 3 point shooter but Lonzo being better closer to the rim, which is not saying much in both cases.
Passing? Push.
Freebies? Ricky.
'Complementary offensive effeciency' is such a relative phrase, the complement being exactly that, the easier path coming about in most cases through no extra(this is important) input of the complement themselves ie its extremely difficult to gauge how much better players considered complementary have gotten, especially when the statistic deviation is minimal, this is rather obvious.
Basically I don't think Lonzo will get significantly better because of Lebron

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/lebron-effect-los-angeles-lakers-lonzo-ball-brandon-ingram-improve-2018


Nice stats.
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

https://mobile.twitter.com/lakers/status/1040737456885129216?s=21
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AllorNothing
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject:

How was Rick Rubio defensively vs lonzo?
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