OFFICIAL LONZO BALL THREAD
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
Zo's.seasonal Rpm(-18) is not good, there's room for improvement when it comes to fit and function.
A suggestion that he goes by the way of step by step development in context is hardly unreasonable.

Just trade him if you're planning to go down that road.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.


What's his RPM by month?

Then...what's RPM?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:24 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
Jenn wrote:
MJST wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/1/10/18177230/la-lakers-news-luke-walton-lonzo-ball-free-throw-shooting-what


“No, I’m not gonna speak on his form or routine. In practice he’ll sit there and he’ll make 25 or 30 out of 35. He sits there and he’ll hit ‘em,” Walton told reporters before Wednesday night’s win against Detroit.

100% mental.


Luke has Lonzo only shooting 30-35 free throws in practice?

How about 100 and seeing the percentages there.

Hitting 25-30 out of 35 in practice doesn't ring as something to work on for Luke? basically that's around 75-80 out of 100 in practice.

Luke should try to have him shoot 100 and see what his percentages are, this whole "Well he makes 25 or 30 out of 35 in practice so don't change anything." is not the mentality to have "Let's see if we can get him to make 90-95 out of 100 in practice." is.


I'll never forget attending (I snuck in) a Laker practice in 1974 at Loyola. Someone who didn't shoot well from distance (Happy Hairston, perhaps) made 46 of 50 from the top of the key. Jerry West made 49 of 50 free throws, and he retired the next day.


the middle game is a lost art — Gail stumpy Goodrich hit every 15 footer like a layup...


Skilled mid range game would be an open shot off the screen 9 out of 10 times in modern NBA defense where they defend the three and the drive above all else.

Someone that can shoot 45% from mid off screens or in general would be a very deadly offensive threat. Yes shooting from three as well, but the ability to hit from mid especially off the space off a screen changes defense and opens up lanes even further. Watch how teams have to defend Steph because they know that he has a deadly mid range game in addition to everything else.
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject:

45% off midrange screens is 0.9 ppp
Not bad if it opens up drives to the basket, but not a desired shot per se
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:09 am    Post subject:

Adding insult to injury, it looks like D Fox is starting to pick up his defensive game...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
Jenn wrote:
MJST wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/1/10/18177230/la-lakers-news-luke-walton-lonzo-ball-free-throw-shooting-what


“No, I’m not gonna speak on his form or routine. In practice he’ll sit there and he’ll make 25 or 30 out of 35. He sits there and he’ll hit ‘em,” Walton told reporters before Wednesday night’s win against Detroit.

100% mental.


Luke has Lonzo only shooting 30-35 free throws in practice?

How about 100 and seeing the percentages there.

Hitting 25-30 out of 35 in practice doesn't ring as something to work on for Luke? basically that's around 75-80 out of 100 in practice.

Luke should try to have him shoot 100 and see what his percentages are, this whole "Well he makes 25 or 30 out of 35 in practice so don't change anything." is not the mentality to have "Let's see if we can get him to make 90-95 out of 100 in practice." is.


I'll never forget attending (I snuck in) a Laker practice in 1974 at Loyola. Someone who didn't shoot well from distance (Happy Hairston, perhaps) made 46 of 50 from the top of the key. Jerry West made 49 of 50 free throws, and he retired the next day.


the middle game is a lost art — Gail stumpy Goodrich hit every 15 footer like a layup...


Skilled mid range game would be an open shot off the screen 9 out of 10 times in modern NBA defense where they defend the three and the drive above all else.

Someone that can shoot 45% from mid off screens or in general would be a very deadly offensive threat. Yes shooting from three as well, but the ability to hit from mid especially off the space off a screen changes defense and opens up lanes even further. Watch how teams have to defend Steph because they know that he has a deadly mid range game in addition to everything else.


Dwight Howard shot 82% in practice and under 50% in practice.

Look at these numbers. You don't remember this?
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.


That drastically minimizes his offensive potential in the short term and makes it tougher for him to reach his long term potential. Lonzo having the ball more helps Kuz, it won’t limit his opportunity. Kuz benefits off Lonzos playmaking ability as much as anybody. Lonzo is already extremely low usage even when he gets a lot of touches. He gets the ball and is immediately looking to get a teammate the ball in an advantageous position. He’s not mentally overwhelmed by the decision making aspects of his game I think he’s overwhelmed with self doubt and a lack of confidence scoring the ball. Asking him to only score the ball is basically telling him not to do what he’s good at and focus on what he’s bad at. I don’t think that makes him a better player or helps his mental makeup.

What needs to happen is he needs to be the PG and be the primary ball handler until Bron gets back. Let him do what he’s comfortable with and stop with the BI at PG experiment that hasn’t worked since a 10 game stretch against bad teams last year. Let him gradually improve in those other areas he’s struggling with while getting more confident doing what he’s already good at.
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ItsJustMagic
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.


That drastically minimizes his offensive potential in the short term and makes it tougher for him to reach his long term potential. Lonzo having the ball more helps Kuz, it won’t limit his opportunity. Kuz benefits off Lonzos playmaking ability as much as anybody. Lonzo is already extremely low usage even when he gets a lot of touches. He gets the ball and is immediately looking to get a teammate the ball in an advantageous position. He’s not mentally overwhelmed by the decision making aspects of his game I think he’s overwhelmed with self doubt and a lack of confidence scoring the ball. Asking him to only score the ball is basically telling him not to do what he’s good at and focus on what he’s bad at. I don’t think that makes him a better player or helps his mental makeup.

What needs to happen is he needs to be the PG and be the primary ball handler until Bron gets back. Let him do what he’s comfortable with and stop with the BI at PG experiment that hasn’t worked since a 10 game stretch against bad teams last year. Let him gradually improve in those other areas he’s struggling with while getting more confident doing what he’s already good at.


Agreed
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Swagron wrote:
Adding insult to injury, it looks like D Fox is starting to pick up his defensive game...
that shouldnt add anything. he was a known defender in college. he's insanely fast and super quicker laterally. the only reason his defense suffered is because he was putting so much concentration on being a better scorer. Dfox is technically a 2 way player. i wont be surprised when he becomes who he always was supposed to be just with an added jumper. the guy is good .and may become very good. i still wont care. i was never going to draft dfox. thats not what we needed. there's a reason i'm not running to get lillard. as much as i like him. thats not what we have missing. we dont Need a scoring pg.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.


That drastically minimizes his offensive potential in the short term and makes it tougher for him to reach his long term potential. Lonzo having the ball more helps Kuz, it won’t limit his opportunity. Kuz benefits off Lonzos playmaking ability as much as anybody. Lonzo is already extremely low usage even when he gets a lot of touches. He gets the ball and is immediately looking to get a teammate the ball in an advantageous position. He’s not mentally overwhelmed by the decision making aspects of his game I think he’s overwhelmed with self doubt and a lack of confidence scoring the ball. Asking him to only score the ball is basically telling him not to do what he’s good at and focus on what he’s bad at. I don’t think that makes him a better player or helps his mental makeup.

What needs to happen is he needs to be the PG and be the primary ball handler until Bron gets back. Let him do what he’s comfortable with and stop with the BI at PG experiment that hasn’t worked since a 10 game stretch against bad teams last year. Let him gradually improve in those other areas he’s struggling with while getting more confident doing what he’s already good at.
true true.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Swagron wrote:
Adding insult to injury, it looks like D Fox is starting to pick up his defensive game...

See this is the textbook definition of what trolling is:
it has nothing to do with Lonzo ball, it refers to another players defense because that is the thing zo is actually universally praised for, and mentions a completely different player from a different team. 100% this is the clearest example of a trolling post.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Windhorst just did a 5-5 article with some other writers on ESPN. He said he doesn’t see Ball or Ingram becoming stars. We can argue about Ingram all day, but Ball (whose only in his second season) has show amazing flashes or brilliance. He needs to be more consistent at scoring and he needs to hit a lot more free throws, but he’s knocking on the door for sure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:16 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.


That drastically minimizes his offensive potential in the short term and makes it tougher for him to reach his long term potential. Lonzo having the ball more helps Kuz, it won’t limit his opportunity. Kuz benefits off Lonzos playmaking ability as much as anybody. Lonzo is already extremely low usage even when he gets a lot of touches. He gets the ball and is immediately looking to get a teammate the ball in an advantageous position. He’s not mentally overwhelmed by the decision making aspects of his game I think he’s overwhelmed with self doubt and a lack of confidence scoring the ball. Asking him to only score the ball is basically telling him not to do what he’s good at and focus on what he’s bad at. I don’t think that makes him a better player or helps his mental makeup.

What needs to happen is he needs to be the PG and be the primary ball handler until Bron gets back. Let him do what he’s comfortable with and stop with the BI at PG experiment that hasn’t worked since a 10 game stretch against bad teams last year. Let him gradually improve in those other areas he’s struggling with while getting more confident doing what he’s already good at.

its actually the reverse... coming out of college he was not some high usage point guard and he was shooting 41% on over 5 attempts a game. Having him be this playmaking guard is definitely a source of anxiety for him... you can see the panic pouring out of him when he gets into the paint with the ball, desperately looking for an open person to pass the ball to and avoid some awkwardly thrown up shot at the rim.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
PauPau wrote:
2019 wrote:
PauPau wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
said it many times but again... Lakers need to seriously simplify his development and role on the offense. I know he's a smart player but have him focus on only 1-2 responsibilities on offense until he gets good at that so there's less he needs to think about.
And obviously that 1st task would be to simply work on his jump shot to be a reliable spot-up shooter. Get a good shooting coach and make him clean up his mechanics from the ground up. If he can be a 3 and D guard for Lebron and our second max player that alone will put us in really good shape.


Luckily the team isn’t listening


Then they should be


when has a 3 & D point guard been a max player or second option on a championship team?

The kid(d) can play. it's just whether or not he brings it and where his mind seems to be at. I actually believe ehe needs encouraging to do more, not less. Fix his mechanics, improves his finishing and handles, but if he could be an average scorer and a reliable shooter, he's close to all star level.

Again, it's just whether or no he comes with the aggressive nature we need from him. His second game ever was one of those games. Whatever that feeling was and we've seen it a few times since then, bring that.


"If he can be a 3 and D guard at present" and then we add a max player is what audioaxes meant im sure, how I interpreted it at least.
Im not disputing he's ability but that negative RPM is not a myth either and remember we're trying to win at the present as well.
Not all criticism is in bad faith. Something isn't quite right as evinced by the numbers and I reiterated the OPs take as a suggestion on how to fix it.

Again, this is not unreasonable. Zo ,like the other youngins, don't get the same tether young players get on a team without aspirations. Developing step by step 'might' not be best for the individual but its likely to hurt the team less at present.

thank you that is what I'm saying. Lonzo would not be the second max player, that makes no sense lol.
Its pretty much a given that we are signing a big ticket player next off season one way or the other. Between Lebron, the second max player we sign, BI, and Kuzma, we have enough off offensive initiators to take pressure off of Ball of trying to fast track into the next Magic or Kidd.

And Im not saying thats what Ball would be forever its just to make his development easier and remove some mental hurdles because right now he seems mentally overwhelmed.


That drastically minimizes his offensive potential in the short term and makes it tougher for him to reach his long term potential. Lonzo having the ball more helps Kuz, it won’t limit his opportunity. Kuz benefits off Lonzos playmaking ability as much as anybody. Lonzo is already extremely low usage even when he gets a lot of touches. He gets the ball and is immediately looking to get a teammate the ball in an advantageous position. He’s not mentally overwhelmed by the decision making aspects of his game I think he’s overwhelmed with self doubt and a lack of confidence scoring the ball. Asking him to only score the ball is basically telling him not to do what he’s good at and focus on what he’s bad at. I don’t think that makes him a better player or helps his mental makeup.

What needs to happen is he needs to be the PG and be the primary ball handler until Bron gets back. Let him do what he’s comfortable with and stop with the BI at PG experiment that hasn’t worked since a 10 game stretch against bad teams last year. Let him gradually improve in those other areas he’s struggling with while getting more confident doing what he’s already good at.

its actually the reverse... coming out of college he was not some high usage point guard and he was shooting 41% on over 5 attempts a game. Having him be this playmaking guard is definitely a source of anxiety for him... you can see the panic pouring out of him when he gets into the paint with the ball, desperately looking for an open person to pass the ball to and avoid some awkwardly thrown up shot at the rim.


He’s still not high usage and at no point did I advocate him being higher usage, just to be used as the PG in his own way. Give him the ball and let him decide where it should go next. That’s when he’s at his best. Did you watch UCLA? He was the center of their offense. He was a playmaking guard in every sense of the term in college. They didn’t use him as a spot up 3-D player. He ran some 2 guard actions in college but was undoubtedly their PG. Playmaking isn’t a source of anxiety, scoring is and that’s fairly obvious to me. Expecting him to spot up and shoot or attack closeouts is not how he should be developed. He can play PG without dominating the ball which is valuable especially on a team with multiple playmakers. Our offense doesn’t move the ball near enough and he helps that issue if he’s at PG.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Windhorst just did a 5-5 article with some other writers on ESPN. He said he doesn’t see Ball or Ingram becoming stars. We can argue about Ingram all day, but Ball (whose only in his second season) has show amazing flashes or brilliance. He needs to be more consistent at scoring and he needs to hit a lot more free throws, but he’s knocking on the door for sure.


The question was who was the second best player on the Lakers. 3 people answered Kuzma, one said Kuzma conditionally but Ball overall, the other ate Krispy Kreme.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Windhorst just did a 5-5 article with some other writers on ESPN. He said he doesn’t see Ball or Ingram becoming stars. We can argue about Ingram all day, but Ball (whose only in his second season) has show amazing flashes or brilliance. He needs to be more consistent at scoring and he needs to hit a lot more free throws, but he’s knocking on the door for sure.


The question was who was the second best player on the Lakers. 3 people answered Kuzma, one said Kuzma conditionally but Ball overall, the other ate Krispy Kreme.


Gracias for the context.
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NetRtg: 30 mins+. All lineups include Zo.Kuz.LBJ:
BI,Zu: +18.9 ... KCP.Tyson: +18.9 ... Hart.McGee: +15.0
BI.Tyson: +5.6 ... Hart.Tyson: +2.1 ... KCP.McGee: +1.8 ... BI.McGee: +0.2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Swagron wrote:
Adding insult to injury, it looks like D Fox is starting to pick up his defensive game...


Eh. Fox is progressing faster than Ball. Good for him. I’m more interested in what we have than what we might have had.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject:

If it comes down to Hack a Lonzo, Lonzo hasn't got the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or blocked shots.

Lonzo has to learn to shoot. KCP has hired a shooting coach. He is the best shooter on the team.
Why can't Lonzo hire a shooting coach and make the small corrections at least to get to maybe average?
It may mean his NBA career.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
If it comes down to Hack a Lonzo, Lonzo hasn't got the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or blocked shots.

Lonzo has to learn to shoot. KCP has hired a shooting coach. He is the best shooter on the team.
Why can't Lonzo hire a shooting coach and make the small corrections at least to get to maybe average?
It may mean his NBA career.


I was thinking the other day, man Lonzo is a great center. But I've got to agree with you, Lonzo doesn't have the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or the blocked shots. My mind is now blown.

Hoping Lonzo can get his mechanics broken down and fixed as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
If it comes down to Hack a Lonzo, Lonzo hasn't got the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or blocked shots.

Lonzo has to learn to shoot. KCP has hired a shooting coach. He is the best shooter on the team.
Why can't Lonzo hire a shooting coach and make the small corrections at least to get to maybe average?
It may mean his NBA career.

Lonzo's NBA career isn't going to disappear even if his shooting numbers didn't improve. He does too many other things that help a team. If he got cut, he'd be claimed within 60 seconds.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
laker50 wrote:
If it comes down to Hack a Lonzo, Lonzo hasn't got the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or blocked shots.

Lonzo has to learn to shoot. KCP has hired a shooting coach. He is the best shooter on the team.
Why can't Lonzo hire a shooting coach and make the small corrections at least to get to maybe average?
It may mean his NBA career.

Lonzo's NBA career isn't going to disappear even if his shooting numbers didn't improve. He does too many other things that help a team. If he got cut, he'd be claimed within 60 seconds.


Yes - a quality back up PG/press unit leader. Not what you're hoping for with the 2nd pick of the draft.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:48 pm    Post subject:

People still trying to diminish what Lonzo does while they overrate what others do and diminish the importance of what they don't.

The only thing Lonzo is behind on is his scoring and free throws. Even then his shooting has been better, and his aggression even when not scoring has improved.

If Lonzo doesn't get 12 points then no matter what else he does he'll be worthless in a certain kind of fan's minds. Those kinds would rather he have 17 points 1 assist with no defense and a loss, than 9 points 13 assists with lockdown D and a win.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:49 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
laker50 wrote:
If it comes down to Hack a Lonzo, Lonzo hasn't got the inside game of Shaq. Or the rebounding or blocked shots.

Lonzo has to learn to shoot. KCP has hired a shooting coach. He is the best shooter on the team.
Why can't Lonzo hire a shooting coach and make the small corrections at least to get to maybe average?
It may mean his NBA career.

Lonzo's NBA career isn't going to disappear even if his shooting numbers didn't improve. He does too many other things that help a team. If he got cut, he'd be claimed within 60 seconds.


Yes - a quality back up PG/press unit leader. Not what you're hoping for with the 2nd pick of the draft.

"if his shooting numbers didn't improve" is the worst case scenario. I'm not going to lose sleep expecting that to be the case.


Last edited by lakersboy on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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