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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | from highlights I have seen his game looks exactly like D'Angelo's |
His speed, leaping ability, and body control in the air seem clearly better. I see some of the same craftiness getting to his spots DLo has though. |
I definitely see the similarities, though DLO I think is a much better pure scorer whereas Fultz may have the better all-around PG game. Either way would make for a deadly backcourt. |
I disagree.
Fultz repeatedly hits contested shots. I think DAR gets really lucky with those end of shot clock flings.
Fultz is on a different plane athletically than DAR. That body control in the paint cannot be taught. |
I don't think they process the game the same way. DAR is trying to think a couple steps ahead in reading the D and his teammates. Fultz just decides to glide through whatever opening he sees and then hit one of the 15 different options of things he can try, whether it's ways to score or find teammates.
Last edited by fiendishoc on Sun May 21, 2017 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Fultz is on another level athletically and offensively. |
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LakerFan1972
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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What in the unlikely case, Fultz drops to the Lakers @ 2. Does getting Fultz increase the chances of DLO getting moved?
Could a backcourt of Fultz/DLO work?
Which is a better pair? Fultz/DLO or Ball/DLO? |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | from highlights I have seen his game looks exactly like D'Angelo's |
His speed, leaping ability, and body control in the air seem clearly better. I see some of the same craftiness getting to his spots DLo has though. |
I definitely see the similarities, though DLO I think is a much better pure scorer whereas Fultz may have the better all-around PG game. Either way would make for a deadly backcourt. |
I disagree.
Fultz repeatedly hits contested shots. I think DAR gets really lucky with those end of shot clock flings.
Fultz is on a different plane athletically than DAR. That body control in the paint cannot be taught. |
I don't think they process the game the same way. DAR is trying to think a couple steps ahead in reading the D and his teammates. Fultz just decides to glide through whatever opening he sees and then hit one of the 15 different options of things he try whether it's ways to score or find teammates. |
They don't. I think a lot of times DAR is ahead of his own team, but the team struggles to play at his mental plane.
Fultz, I think, is on the same plane as everyone, at bare minimum. But yeah like you said, it's as if Fultz sees one thing, and he picks a weapon within his skill set to attack it.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1972 wrote: | What in the unlikely case, Fultz drops to the Lakers @ 2. Does getting Fultz increase the chances of DLO getting moved?
Could a backcourt of Fultz/DLO work?
Which is a better pair? Fultz/DLO or Ball/DLO? |
I don't think DAR gets moved over a draft pick.
I think people get caught up in archetypes really easily, especially for fit.
Personally, I just think Spurs players weren't necessarily motion offense guys until they got there. Klay Thompson? Not at Washington. Stephen Curry? He played a lot of SG, so there's a strong argument for that.
But, put Fultz and DAR in a motion/GSW system? Yes. Please. At least I know Fultz can dictate his shots and create shots for others too, with confidence. Let's have our own version of Lillard/McCollum.
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54571
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakerFan1972 wrote: | What in the unlikely case, Fultz drops to the Lakers @ 2. Does getting Fultz increase the chances of DLO getting moved?
Could a backcourt of Fultz/DLO work?
Which is a better pair? Fultz/DLO or Ball/DLO? |
I don't think DAR gets moved over a draft pick.
I think people get caught up in archetypes really easily, especially for fit.
Personally, I just think Spurs players weren't necessarily motion offense guys until they got there. Klay Thompson? Not at Washington. Stephen Curry? He played a lot of SG, so there's a strong argument for that.
But, put Fultz and DAR in a motion/GSW system? Yes. Please. At least I know Fultz can dictate his shots and create shots for others too, with confidence. Let's have our own version of Lillard/McCollum. |
Absolutely! It would be a great situation for Luke to run his system. |
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nash
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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The main reason I have Fultz over Ball is because there is moments in a game when you have to break the schemes and create an opportunity from nothing. Fultz can do that while it is not Ball strength.
Both can run a team and are great prospects, we are fortunate to be in position to draft one of those kids. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | The main reason I have Fultz over Ball is because there is moments in a game when you have to break the schemes and create an opportunity from nothing. Fultz can do that while it is not Ball strength.
Both can run a team and are great prospects, we are fortunate to be in position to draft one of those kids. |
Ingram will be that go to guy.
Fadeaway elbow jumpshot
Finger roll
Post move
Spin move
Attack the rim with off hand
Attack with authority
Loves contact
And good passing instinct. |
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oldschool32
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| LakerFan1972 wrote: | What in the unlikely case, Fultz drops to the Lakers @ 2. Does getting Fultz increase the chances of DLO getting moved?
Could a backcourt of Fultz/DLO work?
Which is a better pair? Fultz/DLO or Ball/DLO? |
I think Russell eventually gets moved in that scenario. Fultz will have the ball in his hands a lot. Even though Russell can play off the ball, he will be somewhat marginalized playing next to Fultz. In this scenario, I think they look for a sg who can defend, slash, spot up, and finish above the rim. In theory, Russell and Ball fit together better. This doesn't even take Ingram into account, who will also need the ball in his hands more and more as he develops.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | The main reason I have Fultz over Ball is because there is moments in a game when you have to break the schemes and create an opportunity from nothing. Fultz can do that while it is not Ball strength.
Both can run a team and are great prospects, we are fortunate to be in position to draft one of those kids. |
Ingram was the most efficient iso scorer in college. Hopefully he can become that "bail-out" guy for us. But I still think Ball can develop that part of his game. Fultz reminds me a lot of Wade the way he probes through a defense. He makes it looks so smooth and easy. |
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defense
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
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This article was from back before UW was deep into its Pac-12 schedule. The UW offense finished the year #110 in KenPom's AdjO. |
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DancingBarry
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Joined: 07 Sep 2001
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | nash wrote: | The main reason I have Fultz over Ball is because there is moments in a game when you have to break the schemes and create an opportunity from nothing. Fultz can do that while it is not Ball strength.
Both can run a team and are great prospects, we are fortunate to be in position to draft one of those kids. |
Ingram was the most efficient iso scorer in college. Hopefully he can become that "bail-out" guy for us. But I still think Ball can develop that part of his game. Fultz reminds me a lot of Wade the way he probes through a defense. He makes it looks so smooth and easy. |
Agree with all that, but wanted to comment on the Wade thing. I've been thinking the same thing and they both have that explosive finishing ability as well at that size/wingspan. Definitely, see some of the similarities. |
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | from highlights I have seen his game looks exactly like D'Angelo's |
His speed, leaping ability, and body control in the air seem clearly better. I see some of the same craftiness getting to his spots DLo has though. |
I definitely see the similarities, though DLO I think is a much better pure scorer whereas Fultz may have the better all-around PG game. Either way would make for a deadly backcourt. |
I disagree.
Fultz repeatedly hits contested shots. I think DAR gets really lucky with those end of shot clock flings.
Fultz is on a different plane athletically than DAR. That body control in the paint cannot be taught. |
Ok, maybe I took it too far by saying he's "much" better at scoring, but you took it the opposite direction by saying DLO is simply lucky. I will agree that Fultz has much better body control though. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4794
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
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That's a validated narrative considering there is no precedent of great NBA player from a crappy college team. Great player will always have impact to lead their team to wins. If UDub had a a respectable record or at least .500 then I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
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This article was from back before UW was deep into its Pac-12 schedule. The UW offense finished the year #110 in KenPom's AdjO. |
I think the article still holds.
It still refers to the talent of teammates. It stills refers to defense being an issue. The overall record doesn't account for the 9 games that Fultz missed because he was playing through injuries.
I'm not even blaming the coach, and he got fired for pete's sake.
Adjusted #110 O doesn't account for Fultz missing games due to injury either.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun May 21, 2017 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
|
That's a validated narrative considering there is no precedent of great NBA player from a crappy college team. Great player will always have impact to lead their team to wins. If UDub had a a respectable record or at least .500 then I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. |
And then I always to go, "What else does Fultz have to do?" I find most of the responses rather nitpicky. The best shotblocker wasn't healthy for half the games. Their remaining C was 6'7". No other teammate was a shot creator. Thybulle at least could force turnovers and hit the occasional 3, but he's a 3 star prospect at best. Crisp, was TO prone and couldn't run the offense, with or without Fultz.
Dude was already over 60% of the team's total offense.
I find it absurd that despite all of UCLA's transition plays, open shots, talent, and shooters, Fultz still had the higher assist percentage, and lower TO rate compared to Lonzo Ball.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun May 21, 2017 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | from highlights I have seen his game looks exactly like D'Angelo's |
His speed, leaping ability, and body control in the air seem clearly better. I see some of the same craftiness getting to his spots DLo has though. |
I definitely see the similarities, though DLO I think is a much better pure scorer whereas Fultz may have the better all-around PG game. Either way would make for a deadly backcourt. |
I disagree.
Fultz repeatedly hits contested shots. I think DAR gets really lucky with those end of shot clock flings.
Fultz is on a different plane athletically than DAR. That body control in the paint cannot be taught. |
Ok, maybe I took it too far by saying he's "much" better at scoring, but you took it the opposite direction by saying DLO is simply lucky. I will agree that Fultz has much better body control though. |
No, I said his late clock shot flings were lucky.
For all we've seen of Russell, we have yet to see a his complete talent cross the board click on all cylinders.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/does-the-nba-care-that-markelle-fultzs-college-team-didnt-win
| Quote: |
Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4794
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though. |
Good length though with a reported 6'10 wingspan. Very polished game but I have same concern, he has above average athleticism and does not have that quick first step explosiveness that makes him a no brainer. His FG% and his 3 ball% also down against good competition, 42% and 37%. Biggest red flag is he can't impact his team to wins despite his all around numbers. His metrics and the eye test though looks impressive. I can see a game changer type of player but not a franchise changer. |
So, so tired of this narrative.
https://deanondraft.com/2017/01/15/is-markelle-fultz-a-loser/
| Quote: |
But in spite replacing the 22 year old star Andrews at age 18, and in spite of two NBA 1st round picks being replaced with low major caliber talent, the offense has still gotten BETTER under the guidance of Fultz, leaping from #86 to #54 in national rank |
|
That's a validated narrative considering there is no precedent of great NBA player from a crappy college team. Great player will always have impact to lead their team to wins. If UDub had a a respectable record or at least .500 then I would have given him the benefit of the doubt. |
And then I always to go, "What else does Fultz have to do?" I find most of the responses rather nitpicky. The best shotblocker wasn't healthy for half the games. Their remaining C was 6'7". No other teammate was a shot creator. Thybulle at least could force turnovers and hit the occasional 3, but he's a 3 star prospect at best. Crisp, was TO prone and couldn't run the offense, with or without Fultz.
Dude was already over 60% of the team's total offense.
I find it absurd that despite all of UCLA's transition plays, open shots, talent, and shooters, Fultz still had the higher assist percentage, and lower TO rate compared to Lonzo Ball. |
Lot of lopsided losses. Makes me wonder if all he put up those numbers on meaningful minutes. The caveat is it could be an empty stats. But like I said unless you can name me a great player from a crappy college team then the narrative remains. It should not be a problem because you have been following the draft. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Lot of lopsided losses. Makes me wonder if all he put up those numbers on meaningful minutes. The caveat is it could be an empty stats. But like I said unless you can name me a great player from a crappy college team then the narrative remains. It should not be a problem because you have been following the draft. |
Ugh. There's nothing I can say except, watch the games.
A LOT of the time, Washington tried to get the entire team involved from the get-go, Crisp and Thybulle involved, and Fultz to hold back on his offense.
And then every time, Washington was already down by 10+. Fultz had to take over every second half. As the season went on, it just got to a point where 5 minutes had past, the teammates didn't provide anything offensively, and Fultz just took over.
I don't see how it's empty stats if the teammates can't shoot and the whole team can't defend.
The flip side of this is, I really don't think Lonzo Ball makes this team any better. He doesn't have Fultz's take over ability. Fox? WAY worse.
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | from highlights I have seen his game looks exactly like D'Angelo's |
His speed, leaping ability, and body control in the air seem clearly better. I see some of the same craftiness getting to his spots DLo has though. |
I definitely see the similarities, though DLO I think is a much better pure scorer whereas Fultz may have the better all-around PG game. Either way would make for a deadly backcourt. |
I disagree.
Fultz repeatedly hits contested shots. I think DAR gets really lucky with those end of shot clock flings.
Fultz is on a different plane athletically than DAR. That body control in the paint cannot be taught. |
I don't think they process the game the same way. DAR is trying to think a couple steps ahead in reading the D and his teammates. Fultz just decides to glide through whatever opening he sees and then hit one of the 15 different options of things he can try, whether it's ways to score or find teammates. |
I think i finally figured out who he is. He's the 2018 version of Brandon Roy. The reason i stated 2018 is because most guards nowadays have serious handles. Thats something they see on youtube since they were kids. So they study how to do certain dribbling moves. Where that was not the case when B.roy was growing up. He did have solid handles and great ball control but not like fultz. But they do play similar. They are athletic, but not the crazy westbrook super explosive athletic. Yet still explosive. the mid range game is money. The too the rack game is solid. the off the dribble game is solid. they both were solid passers. yet still scorers. The difference would be that B.roy had defense. I have no idea of fultz can play man defense not just using his athleticism to run fast and jump really high to block a shot from time to time. I'm talking about knowing angles to cut his man off so he wont make it to the basket. |
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4794
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| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
Lot of lopsided losses. Makes me wonder if all he put up those numbers on meaningful minutes. The caveat is it could be an empty stats. But like I said unless you can name me a great player from a crappy college team then the narrative remains. It should not be a problem because you have been following the draft. |
Ugh. There's nothing I can say except, watch the games.
A LOT of the time, Washington tried to get the entire team involved from the get-go, Crisp and Thybulle involved, and Fultz to hold back on his offense.
And then every time, Washington was already down by 10+. Fultz had to take over every second half. As the season went on, it just got to a point where 5 minutes had past, the teammates didn't provide anything offensively, and Fultz just took over.
I don't see how it's empty stats if the teammates can't shoot and the whole team can't defend.
The flip side of this is, I really don't think Lonzo Ball makes this team any better. He doesn't have Fultz's take over ability. Fox? WAY worse. |
I saw enough of UDub games and I could tell how Fultz disengaged on both ends, he lacked fire, the intangibles is also not there. I also watched enough basketball that one great player can change the whole complexion of the team. They came and go at college. Winning in NBA is different especially for young guys. But one thing is consistent, there's always a caveat when it comes to putting numbers in a bad team, they become pedestrian when they go to a good team. For a can't miss prospect, he should be able to lead his team to wins or at least respectable record especially in the college level. It's a red flag to me until proven otherwise. |
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