Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation.
with all that said. sorry MIke you can't convince people that washington did not have one of its worse seasons since men's basketball started in that college. It's one thing not to make the tourny. I can see that. It's one thing to not be all that good of a team. I can see that with his teammates. But to not be hovering around .500 is crazy to be that talented. That makes me wonder were we watching the next jamal crawford type of guy. a guy who can score with the best sg's to play the game. crazy handles money jumpers all over the court. can pass well enough. Yet the defense is shaky and he doesnt know how to elevate his teammates. all he knows how to do is hit the open man from time to time and make great offensive moves to score. There are times in the game where you need to intentionally draw defenses just to you can setup your teammates over and over and over again. then you start attacking again for yourself, then back to setup then attacking so the defense will never know what you're doing yet your teammates no matter how shaky they are, are always ready for a pass from you and more engaged in the game overall. that will make a team play defense over their own heads.
lonzo ball has shown he has that particular ability. Not so much with fultz. right now fultz is just another seemingly great scorer. Which tells me he can never be your primary guy. He's melo thats shorter with handles therefore he will of course make some nicer passes from time to time but thats about it. Melo is a great scorers scorer. Yet you need a real pg to help lead the team if he's on your team in his prime.
That may be the case with fultz in the end. with that said, there's nothing wrong with that either. I would take that too. because everyone needs guys that can put the ball in the basket while not being a hot dog.
Last edited by splashmtn on Tue May 23, 2017 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
I wonder how much of what Fultz does will translate to the NBA. At 6'4 and just decent athleticism. He doesn't strike me as a guy who will get away with taking right into the defense or shooting over people in the NBA but I could be wrong. He does have a boat load of offensive talent to work with though.
his athleticism is still kind of up their. its more than what you think. he doesnt use it every play so you dont remember its their.
but it is. and he's super long even though its hard to tell just off a quick glance.
which is why he plays at that speed. because he knows he can get that shot off due to his length. He knows how long he really is in comparison to most players at the college level. and even in the nba most guys at his position will not be as long as he is. then throw in the very very good athletic ability plus the handles. you aint stopping him in the pros either once he gets settled in. again, was brandon roy some all world athletic guy? nope. but he was balling before the knee went out on him. he was a top 5 player in the nba.
it seems i'm not the only one who thinks he's kind of like Brandon Roy.
Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation.
with all that said. sorry MIke you can't convince people that washington did not have one of its worse seasons since men's basketball started in that college. It's one thing not to make the tourny. I can see that. It's one thing to not be all that good of a team. I can see that with his teammates. But to not be hovering around .500 is crazy to be that talented. That makes me wonder were we watching the next jamal crawford type of guy. a guy who can score with the best sg's to play the game. crazy handles money jumpers all over the court. can pass well enough. Yet the defense is shaky and he doesnt know how to elevate his teammates. all he knows how to do is hit the open man from time to time and make great offensive moves to score. There are times in the game where you need to intentionally draw defenses just to you can setup your teammates over and over and over again. then you start attacking again for yourself, then back to setup then attacking so the defense will never know what you're doing yet your teammates no matter how shaky they are, are always ready for a pass from you and more engaged in the game overall. that will make a team play defense over their own heads.
lavar ball has shown he has that particular ability. Not so much with fultz. right now fultz is just another seemingly great scorer. Which tells me he can never be your primary guy. He's melo thats shorter with handles therefore he will of course make some nicer passes from time to time but thats about it. Melo is a great scorers scorer. Yet you need a real pg to help lead the team if he's on your team in his prime.
That may be the case with fultz in the end. with that said, there's nothing wrong with that either. I would take that too. because everyone needs guys that can put the ball in the basket while not being a hot dog.
I just think it's hilarious. We're talking about this, and then bam, on WhatsOnDraftBBall pod with Zwicker and Whittington, they have this exact same argument.
Then Zwicker says, "What else do you want Markelle to do?" Same exact argument as me.
Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation.
with all that said. sorry MIke you can't convince people that washington did not have one of its worse seasons since men's basketball started in that college. It's one thing not to make the tourny. I can see that. It's one thing to not be all that good of a team. I can see that with his teammates. But to not be hovering around .500 is crazy to be that talented. That makes me wonder were we watching the next jamal crawford type of guy. a guy who can score with the best sg's to play the game. crazy handles money jumpers all over the court. can pass well enough. Yet the defense is shaky and he doesnt know how to elevate his teammates. all he knows how to do is hit the open man from time to time and make great offensive moves to score. There are times in the game where you need to intentionally draw defenses just to you can setup your teammates over and over and over again. then you start attacking again for yourself, then back to setup then attacking so the defense will never know what you're doing yet your teammates no matter how shaky they are, are always ready for a pass from you and more engaged in the game overall. that will make a team play defense over their own heads.
lavar ball has shown he has that particular ability. Not so much with fultz. right now fultz is just another seemingly great scorer. Which tells me he can never be your primary guy. He's melo thats shorter with handles therefore he will of course make some nicer passes from time to time but thats about it. Melo is a great scorers scorer. Yet you need a real pg to help lead the team if he's on your team in his prime.
That may be the case with fultz in the end. with that said, there's nothing wrong with that either. I would take that too. because everyone needs guys that can put the ball in the basket while not being a hot dog.
I just think it's hilarious. We're talking about this, and then bam, on WhatsOnDraftBBall pod with Zwicker and Whittington, they have this exact same argument.
Then Zwicker says, "What else do you want Markelle to do?" Same exact argument as me.
Just had a dark thought - there is a greater than 0% chance that Fultz could end up in Philly, if the C's decide they want a wing and draft Jackson, leaving the Lonzo vs Fultz decision to the Lakers. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Just had a dark thought - there is a greater than 0% chance that Fultz could end up in Philly, if the C's decide they want a wing and draft Jackson, leaving the Lonzo vs Fultz decision to the Lakers.
I think (or hope) that it will take less than a second for the Lakers to submit their pick if Boston doesn't select Fultz at #1, and that card is 100% going to have Fultz' name on it.
I wonder if Fultz will refuse to work out for the Lakers just like Towns and Simmons. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.
Last edited by 32 on Tue May 23, 2017 2:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
2017 NBA Draft Big Board: Can Anyone Catch Markelle Fultz?
Quote:
Most prospects have officially begun traveling from city to city auditioning for executives who hadn't seen them live during the year. Meanwhile, the projected top-10 names are strategizing about who to work out for and against.
The latest big board takes into account performances and feedback after the combine. There were a handful of participants whose play in Chicago helped earned themselves better rankings and additional love from scouts.
Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation.
with all that said. sorry MIke you can't convince people that washington did not have one of its worse seasons since men's basketball started in that college. It's one thing not to make the tourny. I can see that. It's one thing to not be all that good of a team. I can see that with his teammates. But to not be hovering around .500 is crazy to be that talented. That makes me wonder were we watching the next jamal crawford type of guy. a guy who can score with the best sg's to play the game. crazy handles money jumpers all over the court. can pass well enough. Yet the defense is shaky and he doesnt know how to elevate his teammates. all he knows how to do is hit the open man from time to time and make great offensive moves to score. There are times in the game where you need to intentionally draw defenses just to you can setup your teammates over and over and over again. then you start attacking again for yourself, then back to setup then attacking so the defense will never know what you're doing yet your teammates no matter how shaky they are, are always ready for a pass from you and more engaged in the game overall. that will make a team play defense over their own heads.
lavar ball has shown he has that particular ability. Not so much with fultz. right now fultz is just another seemingly great scorer. Which tells me he can never be your primary guy. He's melo thats shorter with handles therefore he will of course make some nicer passes from time to time but thats about it. Melo is a great scorers scorer. Yet you need a real pg to help lead the team if he's on your team in his prime.
That may be the case with fultz in the end. with that said, there's nothing wrong with that either. I would take that too. because everyone needs guys that can put the ball in the basket while not being a hot dog.
I just think it's hilarious. We're talking about this, and then bam, on WhatsOnDraftBBall pod with Zwicker and Whittington, they have this exact same argument.
Then Zwicker says, "What else do you want Markelle to do?" Same exact argument as me.
Washington didn't struggle because Fultz failed to produce. His numbers don't lie. His effective field-goal percentage on shots off the catch was 56.7 percent; off the bounce, his eFG was 50.9 percent, third among all high-major players. Fultz creates shots for others, too, ranking No. 20 in the nation in assist rate despite his teammates shooting just 28.6 percent from beyond the arc in Pac-12 play and finishing with a collective 49.4 eFG for the season, good for No. 225 in the nation.
with all that said. sorry MIke you can't convince people that washington did not have one of its worse seasons since men's basketball started in that college. It's one thing not to make the tourny. I can see that. It's one thing to not be all that good of a team. I can see that with his teammates. But to not be hovering around .500 is crazy to be that talented. That makes me wonder were we watching the next jamal crawford type of guy. a guy who can score with the best sg's to play the game. crazy handles money jumpers all over the court. can pass well enough. Yet the defense is shaky and he doesnt know how to elevate his teammates. all he knows how to do is hit the open man from time to time and make great offensive moves to score. There are times in the game where you need to intentionally draw defenses just to you can setup your teammates over and over and over again. then you start attacking again for yourself, then back to setup then attacking so the defense will never know what you're doing yet your teammates no matter how shaky they are, are always ready for a pass from you and more engaged in the game overall. that will make a team play defense over their own heads.
lavar ball has shown he has that particular ability. Not so much with fultz. right now fultz is just another seemingly great scorer. Which tells me he can never be your primary guy. He's melo thats shorter with handles therefore he will of course make some nicer passes from time to time but thats about it. Melo is a great scorers scorer. Yet you need a real pg to help lead the team if he's on your team in his prime.
That may be the case with fultz in the end. with that said, there's nothing wrong with that either. I would take that too. because everyone needs guys that can put the ball in the basket while not being a hot dog.
I just think it's hilarious. We're talking about this, and then bam, on WhatsOnDraftBBall pod with Zwicker and Whittington, they have this exact same argument.
Then Zwicker says, "What else do you want Markelle to do?" Same exact argument as me.
Start 33:34. Talking about DSJ and his team and transitions to Fultz.
sounds just like us. thanks for the link great listen.
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots. I dont care how sorry or bad they are. everyone has at worse one spot where a shot/layup, etc goes in more times than not. thats what you have to figure out as the ball handler. dont just make the right play and think thats enough. It wont be, not when you have terrible teammates.
Now to your point. Fultz's passing in the nba will work just fine because people can make shots in the big leagues. I think he has a better IQ than Mudiaye. Mudiaye makes some real nice passes at times but he makes a ton of terrible mistakes all the time. So fultz on boston will work just fine. But!!!, If fultz had the passing IQ and leadership of a lonzo ball. Futlz would not just be another scorer on the celtics. He would actually be the leader on offense. even above I.T. the celtics have one scorer in IT. two if they get fulz. but if fultz had that kind of ability that ball has. He would make 2 other guys look better than they are because he would study where they need the ball in order to be the most successful. There is no stat for that(YET).
making the right play vs making the perfect play customized to the player who's going to receive your pass. This is something the Jkidds, S.nash's, Magic johnsons, stockton's, etc. did.
2017 NBA Draft Big Board: Can Anyone Catch Markelle Fultz?
Quote:
Most prospects have officially begun traveling from city to city auditioning for executives who hadn't seen them live during the year. Meanwhile, the projected top-10 names are strategizing about who to work out for and against.
The latest big board takes into account performances and feedback after the combine. There were a handful of participants whose play in Chicago helped earned themselves better rankings and additional love from scouts.
Just had a dark thought - there is a greater than 0% chance that Fultz could end up in Philly, if the C's decide they want a wing and draft Jackson, leaving the Lonzo vs Fultz decision to the Lakers.
I think (or hope) that it will take less than a second for the Lakers to submit their pick if Boston doesn't select Fultz at #1, and that card is 100% going to have Fultz' name on it.
sorry to hurt your feelings. we aint taking futlz unless the C's draft ball first.
The reason being is that we need someone that can push this team into a different place. futlz cant do that(not yet). he can score with the best of them. But we didnt really have an issue scoring. We had other issues. But part of our offensive woes were too much Iso when it was move the ball time. We missed key opportunities to make the right play to have an easy basket when times got tough during a game. futlz would not change that in his first 2 years. Ball could do that right away. Ball can also shoot the nba 3. Most dont talk about this point. They give his 3pt%. But thats a college 3. The truth is ball is one of only a couple of guys that were consistently taking nba deep or deeper threes all season long. That step back was a stepback nba 3. So I'm saying that 41% looks more like 38% in the nba on day one. and thats off the catch and/or off the bounce.
Thats is great for a pass first pg thats athletic enough to get to the rack.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 3:47 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 5:56 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left?
Takes me back to the days people were criticizing Kobe for not turning Smush and Kwame into Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion.
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left?
Takes me back to the days people were criticizing Kobe for not turning Smush and Kwame into Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion.
that analogy seems perfect on the surface but actually it defends my point of view.
Smush had the best season of his career. I mean the guy went to the heat and got paid then turned into a street baller shortly thereafter. Yeah, kobe elevated smush's game by miles.
Same with kwame's, Cooks, Luke's too.
You know how we know? Those guys made it to the playoffs. They had an over .500 record. and they almost beat a top tier team.
Fultz balled out, his team sucked and thats about it. That sounds like a lot of perimeter guys on losing teams in the nba. you ball out, get your stats up hopefully someone pays you and we find out you never really could raise a team up, you were jamal crawford (a nice scoring piece).
the question is simple. is fultz Brandon Roy or Jamal Crawford? Both of these guys were highly skilled in their primes on the offensive end. B.roy actually played solid defense too. Both guys could hit jumpers from pretty much any angle and could split a double team if need be. both guys could pass well enough as 2 guards. Yet only B.roy could elevate his entire team. Just because a player has the skill doesn't mean he can elevate his team. Some guys are just very good scorers and nothing more.
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left?
this is what i'm saying mike. You nor me have any idea of what spots are these guys best spots to be the most consistent and how they need the ball, etc. Fultz should've known this due to playing with these guys in practice/during shoot arounds. You can't as a fan or scout know this unless you're watching these players during those non game times. You can find out where guys not just like the ball but where they thrive. you can actually find new spots for guys where they are better than they ever knew because they never attempted certain shots from certain spots on any regular basis. Fultz may not have thought about it that deeply. he could've come out and did watch coach told him to do, played the right way, made the right read and that wasnt enough for sucky teammates. you need to go above and beyond to make kwame brown, brian cook, etc look good.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject:
splashmtn wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left?
this is what i'm saying mike. You nor me have any idea of what spots are these guys best spots to be the most consistent and how they need the ball, etc. Fultz should've known this due to playing with these guys in practice/during shoot arounds. You can't as a fan or scout know this unless you're watching these players during those non game times. You can find out where guys not just like the ball but where they thrive. you can actually find new spots for guys where they are better than they ever knew because they never attempted certain shots from certain spots on any regular basis. Fultz may not have thought about it that deeply. he could've come out and did watch coach told him to do, played the right way, made the right read and that wasnt enough for sucky teammates. you need to go above and beyond to make kwame brown, brian cook, etc look good.
Once again, disagree with your argument. If Fultz facilitated to their best talent (3pt shooting) and they are 3 star talents, why is it fair to expect ungodly shooting from 3pt range?
I just think it's a poor argument. What evidence do you have of Fultz NOT facilitating to his own teammates when he averages 6apg and his teammates shoot 28% from the 3pt line with a TS% of 48.4%?
Better question. How many BLOWN assists do you think Fultz has compared to Lonzo because Washington couldn't shoot?
How many assists do you think Lonzo gets since he's not the POA player that Fultz is and didn't have to suffer 49.4% shooting? Hell, do you REALLY think Lonzo's off-ball game would stand out at Washington because so many of his individual shots were heavily assists, off-the-chart level?
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject:
splashmtn wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here's the trick to making your sorry players play better than they are. You have to find out exactly where they need the ball in order to put the ball in the basket. every single basketball player has a spot or spots.
I find this argument, almost irrelevant. Thybulle and Crisp didn't show anything else offensively outside of 3pt shooting, and they weren't exactly elite at it.
So what's left?
Takes me back to the days people were criticizing Kobe for not turning Smush and Kwame into Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion.
that analogy seems perfect on the surface but actually it defends my point of view.
Smush had the best season of his career. I mean the guy went to the heat and got paid then turned into a street baller shortly thereafter. Yeah, kobe elevated smush's game by miles.
Same with kwame's, Cooks, Luke's too.
You know how we know? Those guys made it to the playoffs. They had an over .500 record. and they almost beat a top tier team.
Fultz balled out, his team sucked and thats about it. That sounds like a lot of perimeter guys on losing teams in the nba. you ball out, get your stats up hopefully someone pays you and we find out you never really could raise a team up, you were jamal crawford (a nice scoring piece).
the question is simple. is fultz Brandon Roy or Jamal Crawford? Both of these guys were highly skilled in their primes on the offensive end. B.roy actually played solid defense too. Both guys could hit jumpers from pretty much any angle and could split a double team if need be. both guys could pass well enough as 2 guards. Yet only B.roy could elevate his entire team. Just because a player has the skill doesn't mean he can elevate his team. Some guys are just very good scorers and nothing more.
Dickerson, Crisp, and Thybulle (the next 3 top players in minutes played) all improved dramatically playing next to Fultz. You should have seen how awful they were the year before.
Fultz teammates were so bad he led them to a 13 game losing streak to end the season. Good thing he would be going to the celtics to learn how to win lol
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
