Lakers record w/ kobe in scoring mode vs. kobe in passing mode

PiPisKobesByatch · Star Player Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038

i'm not sure what the record is, but it's quite evident that the lakers were much much better off when kobe was going off for his ridiculous january tear.

the typical response is that the lakers will get nowhere with kobe scoring in bunches and the other guys chipping in. well, if we can't get to the playoffs in the first place, then how can we even find out of this is true?

you have to get the team in that position first to see whether or not they will fail, and the lakers are below .500 with kobe relying on this current squad.

if management is not willing to make any moves to bring in better talent, then this is what we have to work with. therefore, we have to put them in their best position to succeed, and unfortunately, that is with kobe being the dominant scorer that he can be. jordan did it. unless mitch is going to bring in better scorers, then kobe will have to play that way... it's just the truth. the lakers are blowing stupid games because they are making boneheaded plays with the ball in the wrong players' hands.

if they are going to bring in better players to surround kobe, then the obvious choice is to get other people involved. if they are going to keep the bottom dwellers of the nba in the starting lineup, then kobe is going to have to carry them, beause you can't make a steed out of an ass. these players will never be the consistent scorers needed to have successful team play. they can't be relied on for 82 games.

so as sad as it is, kobe will have to play in scoring mode if we are to even MAKE the playoffs.

it's hard to explain, but sometimes when kobe is in his scoring modes, and the other players aren't nervous and anxious trying to get things right in the triangle, they can focus on shutting people down on defense alone. kobe gets the crowd buzzing, and energy flows through the stadium when he is on his bursts.

take the raptors game.. they were down 18 and had NO LIFE. it took kobe's brilliance to spark the team defensively, and it worked.

it is very rare when kobe will go on a scoring spree and the lakers will not cut the deficit or build a lead. he has the ability to push the team with his offense, and inspire them on defense.

they aren't worried about being in the right positions and worried about missing shots, they're just able to hone in and play defense, which is more of a reationary act.

kobe will wear himself down playing in his score-first modes, but the sad fact of the matter is that they will miss the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row if he doesn't.

do we encourage team play and lose games, while missing the playoffs again, or let kobe do his thing, get into the playoffs and go from there? i don't know anybody that would want to sacrifice success at the expense of a winning record. that's not the point in basketball. it's to win.

honestly, are the lakers any better of a team now than they were in the beginning of the season? they haven't improved at all as a team. they are still making the same stupid rookie mental errors and losing close games. the truth is, these guys will never be consistent. they just aren't good enough.

kobekillinu2nite · Star Player Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1774

I'm ready for that Kobe going for 100 game right about now after the stretch of games we just had...............

OshadowO · Star Player Joined: 22 Feb 2003 Posts: 7356

his shot attempts have dropped from 29fga in jan to 24.5 fga. I was gonna say he's shooting too many 3s but looking at his game log it seems like the trend of shooting 3s started in jan, his best month!

he attempted double digit 3s in 6 games in jan, and every other game he had atleast 5 except for one vs GSW where he shot 4.

This month he's taken atleast 7 in every game. Twice he's gone for 11 going over 30% only once. At this rate he'll probably overtake his total from jan.

I guess seeing as how jan was his best month, can't really blame the ugly shots for our losses. Bummer cos I really wanted to bash him over the stupid 3s.

in anycase, his FTAs have dropped a lot. 13.9 in jan to 8 FTAs That's one thing hurting his effeciency. I guess now I can bash him for taking too many 3s. Take it to the rim Kobe :p

On reason we are losing is because we seem to be breaking down collectively in the 4th Quarter. Defense and offense. I've noticed we keep games close and then fold in the last few minutes because either Kobe can't make crucial buckets, or when he can, someone else botches it up. On defense the other guys tend to score too easily. This was a trend I though we grew out of over the course of the season, guess not.

KingKobe8thWonder · Star Player Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1278

Kobe has tried his best to involve his teamates and it has resulted in.

Kobe having a fairly high field goal percentage.

kobe having many more assists when people hit shots.

His teamates gaining confidence and playing better by the game!

and about 2 or 3 wins!

KOBE SHOOT YOUR BRAINS OUT NEXT GAME PLEASE WE NEED YOU IN ATTACK MODE WE SUCK WHEN YOU DONT PLAY LIKE THE BEST DAMN PLAYER IN THE WORLD!

And thats just a fact with the make up of this team as stands right now, if we make a trade then the tides may turn!
_________________
"To me he is the best player in the world right now. That guy doesn't know fear at all. He doesn't care. He would have won it for the Americans single-handedly." Dirk Nowitzki

venicebeach · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:21 am Post subject:

Kobe in attack mode is the best with this supporting cast. IMHO

G1 Hydrogenic · Sixth Man Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 38

It's best if Kobe scores more. But with teams forcing him to pass off because of the double/triple-teaming, it really doesn't give him much of a choice BUT to pass off.

It would help if those guys could actually make a few shots too.

flashakadrano · Star Player Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1028

when kobe is in scoring mode, the lakers score.

when kobe is in passing mode, nobody scores.

THE_SHOES · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:38 am Post subject:

I got news for ya'll... Kobe was in scoring mode the other day. Eddie Jones got in the way...

Are any of you aware of the fact that Kobe's shots in the last three games have not went down? The fact is he is in a mild slump. His percentages in the last three games have fallen...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

ALbino · Star Player Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 1270

A better question is what's the record when Kobe doesn't just score or just distribute, but just plays balanced? :)

AL.

THE_SHOES · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:56 am Post subject:

The Lakers took out a double digit lead against this last opponet before the half while Bryant was struggling. This "sloagan" that has developed about Bryant sharing the ball or not sharing the ball is ridiculous. Bryant was sharing the ball in Houston and, it was one of the best wins of the season... The triangle is meant to utilize at least three people! The sooner this team becomes more efficient the better. Some who perpetuate this silliness are the same ones who constantly whine about Bryant not having enough help...

Strange, strange, and stranger...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

LTD · Starting Rotation Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 463

I talked about this to my friend a while back who was screaming that kobe scoring all of those points didn't do us any good. I ahven't updated it, but as of january 24th, here was the breakdown:

0-29 = 6-6
30-39 = 14-12
40-49 = 5-4
50-59 = 1-1
60+ = 2-0

At that point in time, the numbers showed that when Kobe went off (40 or more) our record was better (8-5 which is a 50 win team) than when he's around his average or below it (20-18 which is basically a .500 team). The numbes are probably even more in his favor since I think he's only scored 40 or more once since the 81 point game and we've been on a losing skid.

Now of course, this is only a small sample so that doesn't guarantee that we'd really win 50 games with Kobe scoring 40 or more, but it just put to rest the people that were screaming that Kobe scoring all of those points doesn't matter with regards to our record, or that we do worse when he scores all of those points. The numbers suggest the complete opposite.

Exick · Site Staff Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 15880

Here's a fun little stat. In January, Kobe participated in 4 of the 6 losses. In all four of those losses, he had double digit 3-point attempts. Coincidence? Maybe. But this team takes too many 3s. They're averaging almost 28 attempts over the last 5 games. That's nearly 10 more than their season average. If they were hitting at a decent clip, that would be one thing, but as a team they're making fewer than 1 of every 3 and Kobe himself is under 30% from long range in those games.

You can say you want Kobe in this mode or that mode, but I think the focus should be on the team getting into working-for-easier-shots mode. Settling for 3s and outside jumpers when the shots aren't falling will continue to allow opponents to play soft defense and let the Lakers shoot themselves out of a game.

LTD · Starting Rotation Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 463

Exick, you're preaching to the choir man. I mentioned something about the number of 3 point shots a little while back, and one poster basically said that I had little to no knowledge of the triangle offense.

With regards to kobe, he can hit 3's, but the problem is that he takes 3's that are just too damn difficult (2-3 steps behind the line, a pullup 3 with a defender on him, etc). So while he may shoot well for a little while, there's just no way that he can keep that up over an extended period of time.

wolfpaclaker · Retired Number Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336

KingKobe8thWonder · Star Player Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 1278

You guys talking about Kobe going into double digit 3 pointer attempts during our losses are just being silly!!! Use common sense! We dont lose those games because Kobe is going off missing 3 pointers from all over the place. Kobe tries to distribute the ball in those games and when we start getting our asses k8icked he starts launching threes to try and pull us back.

When it works he's a hero, when it doesn't work everyone in here is screaming for him to calm down!! Either way its not a pretty picture but he certainly isnt just pulling up and taking nonsense 3 pointers throwing the game away, thos all come up when we are down big and we need to come back!
_________________
"To me he is the best player in the world right now. That guy doesn't know fear at all. He doesn't care. He would have won it for the Americans single-handedly." Dirk Nowitzki

LTD · Starting Rotation Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 463

Wonder, my point is, and I've said it before, that a LOT of the time he takes those 3's when he doesn't have to. Just because you are down by 8 with 6 minutes left in the game doesn't mean to have to take a 3 2 feet behind the arc. Like I said before, it's almost like he's trying to get it all back at one time.

sodapoppenski · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:02 am Post subject:

I did a good bit of digging on our stats when Kobe had various outcomes
(FG's attempted, points scored, percentage of team's pts/FGs, assist total,
etc) but it was probably a month or more ago.

I'll probably try and dig up some numbers by this weekend for the sake
of it being the All-Star break just out of curiosity.

Will be sure to make a thread when I do (probably alot more in-depth
this time in fact, now that we have more games to go by).

It wasn't a huge margin, but substantial anyhow last time I tried it, and
we were a better team when Kobe was taking more shots.

Oddly enough we were also undefeated I think in the only two games or
so in which he had 2 or fewer assists.

Like I said, that was after 30 games or so - so I'll post when I dig some
numbers up over the weekend

THE_SHOES · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:05 am Post subject:

Especially when you have people standing right under the hoop while the entire defense including the coaching staff and, half the fans in the arena are all over Kobe... This is one of the reasons I hope the Lakers don't ever get rid of Devean George. He has been cleaning up on the offensive glass lately like crazy because he seems to know exactly when everybody else is surprised to head for the hoop for one of them famous treys...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

vicman · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:14 am Post subject:

hey the problem i see is alot of times when he drives he is not getting the calls. which i think makes him settle for the outside shot. i was at the memphis game and they must have missed at least 5 calls on drives. with that said if cook pulls the ball out and gives kobe the ball back we might be talking about how he closes the game so well. it was a strategy mistake that cost us the memphis game. Odom went to early. cook went to early and brown ran over jones with 18 seconds on the shot clock. giving them 2 points for free with like 2 minutes left. not to metnion fouling himself out of the game

OdomX2 · Star Player Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3973

Not to mention this team is unwatchable without Kobe doing what he does best. The Shaq, Malone, Payton Kobe Lakers needed a facilitator, Kobe was that guy. This team has one hope to win games, and that's Kobe getting off early and often.

Mark_in_Tulsa · Franchise Player Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 12977

You guys also have to keep in mind that we lost our only inside scoring threat when Mhim went down 4 or 5 games ago.

That right there would cause us to have to make more outside shots.

sodapoppenski · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:42 am Post subject:

Rough cut...

Kobe's Output vs. Record
(As of Feb 12th)

Points:

0-29.......6-9.......(.400)
30-39.....10-9.....(.526)
40-49.....6-4.......(.600)
50+.......3-1.......(.750)

Seems to be a solid pattern there to me.

That said, I don't think "point total" is the best way to gauge Kobe taking
a heavy offensive burden as an effective strategy to win games.

On nights where he has a lower point-total, couldn't it be that he's facing
the same tough defense the rest of the Lakers are? And therefore he
ends up simply making a lower percentage of his shots?

Not saying that's necessarily true either, which is why I like to compare
shot-attempts and the trends they follow with winning or losing, or
Kobe's FG% compared to the rest of the team's FG% over the
course of the season (if his is higher, that justifies going to him as often
as we do on his high FG-attempt nights). Likewise for assists. Does our
team do better when he's the initiator? Or do we do better when he has
4 assists and concentrates more effort on scoring from the receiving end
of that part of the game?

If you're looking just for "point total," yes I think there's a correlation and
it favors Kobe scoring more.

But the same is likely true of most stars in the league in comparison to
their team winning or losing - that doesn't mean Tim Duncan should take
30 shots a night when Ginobili and Parker are on the same floor as him.

Like I said, I'll do something more in-depth for the heck of it later on this
week and will be sure to post it.

THE_SHOES · Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:43 am Post subject:

OdomX2 · Star Player Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3973

Lionel The Laker · Star Player Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 2660

It doesn't matter. Scoring mode =a 500 record. Passing mode= 500 record. It would have all balanced out. We still need some better players around Kobe.