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Wildchild027
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't understand the crowd that wants to wait to trade Mozgov or Deng. Both have three years on their deals, and we will need to add draft compensation to both of them to move them. Do people actually believe that they become more moveable at the deadline without adding draft compensation?
The Lakers have two choices. Move them now, and give up draft compensation, or move them at the deadline, and give up draft compensation. If they wait until next summer to try and move them, they have to take back non-guaranteed contracts to get them off the books. And who is going to give them non-guaranteed contracts without get a pick or two from the Lakers? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | I don't understand the crowd that wants to wait to trade Mozgov or Deng. Both have three years on their deals, and we will need to add draft compensation to both of them to move them. Do people actually believe that they become more moveable at the deadline without adding draft compensation?
The Lakers have two choices. Move them now, and give up draft compensation, or move them at the deadline, and give up draft compensation. If they wait until next summer to try and move them, they have to take back non-guaranteed contracts to get them off the books. And who is going to give them non-guaranteed contracts without get a pick or two from the Lakers? |
I do not know about the "crowd" but I am of the opinion both players have some value this year. Both can contribute on the floor even if not worthy of their contracts. Both are veteran balance to a young core of players.
As the roster stands today. Mozgov is the starter. He will play his 20-25mpg. I am a bit more optimistic of the win total this year and doubt they are shutting him down to play for player development purposes. He will be a solid rotations player. Deng is a bit more interesting with Ingram presumed to be the starter. Deng will be an expensive backup but still capable. Not the All-star but again balance to the young players.
There are multiple options of how to build the team this season. My prference is they keep the roster mostly intact and see how player and system development improve (or not).
All this could change dramatically if the Lakers make a blockbuster trade. Or if they need to use either in trade for salary purposes or to some how free up free agent cap space.
But as it stand today. I see no reason to use assets to rush either player out the door in lopsided trades or stretching them and affecting the cap for the next five years.
Just curious, if we are having this discussion one year from now. Do you think the trade value or assets needed to move either player would be dramatically different? That more or less would need to be attached to players with one less year of guaranteed money?
And yes I understand the "need" to free up cap space for the mythical two marquee free agents. If that is the option taken by management you will get your wish to dump either or both with bad deals. |
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matrixskillz
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 7502
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Is there a 14 foot trash can lying around?
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| What do they do? At this point, just hope they are good practice players. They still have utility as veterans who can teach the young kids good habits. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21075
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Play them. Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac, at least as of now, and he can actually fill a need against a couple of vet centers out there who know how to take advantage of Zu's inexperience. Moz could possibly help Zubac develop in aspects of the game where big Zu is still weak.
Deng started out the season slow but he was getting better as we started to approach mid-season. Then it came time to sit him in favor of 'player development' aka tanking. Obviously he also has a ton of experience when it comes to recognizing where to move and when.
If we get Ball or another rookie PG in this draft it would be helpful to have a couple players on the roster who understand where to be on the floor, to mix in with Ingram, Zu, Randle, DLO, Clarkson and even Nance, all who are still learning to various degrees.
We're not tanking this coming year. I expect to see more minutes and more production out of Deng, and I think Moz and Zubac can both get plenty of time at center.
So I say we play them, instead of getting all impatient and trading them away, giving up significant assets in a year where we're not targeting free agents, just because we don't have the patience to do otherwise. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| zoom K083 wrote: | | Mozgovwants to start, so I hope he when he realizes when he's not he'd want a buyout |
As of now he likely would be the starter. We aren't tanking anymore.
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac. |
I agree about that, but the same can be said about Nance and Julius and we are starting Randle. |
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ch3cky0selff00
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Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Kind of torn on both actually.
I believe Luol Deng and Larry Nance can effectively man the PF position going forward. I would see what the trade value for Julius Randle is as I'm still not positive that he's right for this current team. He could be.. I just don't see it yet.
Mosgov is steady.. I don't think Zubac is quite ready for that starting position YET. However, with the addition of Ball, an improved D'Angelo Russell and Brandon Ingram.. I think Mosgov's mid-range ability could prove to be a valuable asset.
With that said.. I'm not particularly attached to that 28 pick.. IF a team were willing to take on one of their contracts if the Lakers gave up the 28 pick.. I'd have to consider that deal especially with the reports that the Lakers aren't really looking at THIS free agent class but rather the 2018 free agent class. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac. |
I agree about that, but the same can be said about Nance and Julius and we are starting Randle. |
He is the future of his position, he is much more talented than Nance and the coaching staff is invested in developing him. Nance's future looks much like his present.
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Krispy Kreme
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Joined: 30 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | zoom K083 wrote: | | Mozgovwants to start, so I hope he when he realizes when he's not he'd want a buyout |
As of now he likely would be the starter. We aren't tanking anymore. |
He may start, he may not. We are just trying to clean up the mess your boy Jim made.
Give us a few years.
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | nash wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac. |
I agree about that, but the same can be said about Nance and Julius and we are starting Randle. |
He is the future of his position, he is much more talented than Nance and the coaching staff is invested in developing him. Nance's future looks much like his present. |
The same can be said about Zubac and Mozgov.
Main difference is that unlike Randle, Zubac has something working between his ears.
By the way, 1vs1 skills is not necessarily more talent and Nance is a better team player.
The only point I agree is that Nance is closer to a final product than Randle, the same as Mozgov to Zubac. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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There are very solid reasons why Randle was a lottery pick and why Zubac wasn't. They are not comparable. And if you think Randle's game is one on one and not team oriented you must have missed last season. But I get it, it is easier to repeat the rhetoric than to invest in what actually happens.
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Krispy Kreme
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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What actually happened is Jim stunk and got fired. And how sweet it is.
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Krispy Kreme wrote: | | What actually happened is Jim stunk and got fired. And how sweet it is. |
Draft...
Randle
Russell
Ingram
Lance
Zubac
JC |
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Krispy Kreme
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Joined: 30 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
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How sweet it is.
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There are very solid reasons why Randle was a lottery pick and why Zubac wasn't. They are not comparable. And if you think Randle's game is one on one and not team oriented you must have missed last season. But I get it, it is easier to repeat the rhetoric than to invest in what actually happens. |
Well, I brought stats to show superior Nance impact, but if you prefer to repeat the rhetoric I'm fine if you can keep your composure talking to forummates.
By the way, it was reported by two, not one, but two writers close to our front office and coaching staff that Ingram, Zubac and Nance are perceived as building pillars.and I'm perfectly aligned with them.
It doesn't have anything to do with youth movement, I like young or old players that I believe are going to help us to win the next championship. You are completely wrong when you tell I'm against all our young players, but you have your favorite while I have 3. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| zoom K083 wrote: | | Mozgovwants to start, so I hope he when he realizes when he's not he'd want a buyout |
Yeah, I've been hoping for something like this as well, but yeah, not likely!
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | I don't understand the crowd that wants to wait to trade Mozgov or Deng. Both have three years on their deals, and we will need to add draft compensation to both of them to move them. Do people actually believe that they become more moveable at the deadline without adding draft compensation?
The Lakers have two choices. Move them now, and give up draft compensation, or move them at the deadline, and give up draft compensation. If they wait until next summer to try and move them, they have to take back non-guaranteed contracts to get them off the books. And who is going to give them non-guaranteed contracts without get a pick or two from the Lakers? |
I think the idea is to wait the extra year and then stretch one of them. It would be much less painful to stretch 2 years instead of 3. No one will trade for their contracts either way.
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Dr. Funkbot
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Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Play them. Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac, at least as of now, and he can actually fill a need against a couple of vet centers out there who know how to take advantage of Zu's inexperience. Moz could possibly help Zubac develop in aspects of the game where big Zu is still weak.
Deng started out the season slow but he was getting better as we started to approach mid-season. Then it came time to sit him in favor of 'player development' aka tanking. Obviously he also has a ton of experience when it comes to recognizing where to move and when.
If we get Ball or another rookie PG in this draft it would be helpful to have a couple players on the roster who understand where to be on the floor, to mix in with Ingram, Zu, Randle, DLO, Clarkson and even Nance, all who are still learning to various degrees.
We're not tanking this coming year. I expect to see more minutes and more production out of Deng, and I think Moz and Zubac can both get plenty of time at center.
So I say we play them, instead of getting all impatient and trading them away, giving up significant assets in a year where we're not targeting free agents, just because we don't have the patience to do otherwise. |
I am also hoping all the rest that Deng got this year will erase some of the Thib's years that he has put on his body.
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
Why would Carmelo want to come to the Lakers? |
I don't know, maybe because his current team had made it obvious they don't want him around and the rest of the league has been crickets as far as interest?
Clearly he is in rapid decline as far as impacting wins (for his team at least) and overpaid on top of it. But Deng isn't exactly the second coming of Scottie Pippen and if we had to swallow the lesser of two negatives?
Somehow, I think Melo ends up a Clipper strangely.
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Play them. Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac, at least as of now, and he can actually fill a need against a couple of vet centers out there who know how to take advantage of Zu's inexperience. Moz could possibly help Zubac develop in aspects of the game where big Zu is still weak.
Deng started out the season slow but he was getting better as we started to approach mid-season. Then it came time to sit him in favor of 'player development' aka tanking. Obviously he also has a ton of experience when it comes to recognizing where to move and when.
If we get Ball or another rookie PG in this draft it would be helpful to have a couple players on the roster who understand where to be on the floor, to mix in with Ingram, Zu, Randle, DLO, Clarkson and even Nance, all who are still learning to various degrees.
We're not tanking this coming year. I expect to see more minutes and more production out of Deng, and I think Moz and Zubac can both get plenty of time at center.
So I say we play them, instead of getting all impatient and trading them away, giving up significant assets in a year where we're not targeting free agents, just because we don't have the patience to do otherwise. |
Unfortunately, this is the most likely scenario, we are stuck with them, so play them. Perhaps try starting Dang at PF, all we heard is about how killer his numbers were the previous (to signing him) season @ PF in Miami, if you play him there, get his numbers and confidence up, you increase his trade value!
Zubby WILL get plenty of playing time (as well as Black) because Moz only averaged about 20 minutes per game, leaving 28 minutes for the other C's..
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Play them. Mozgov was steady but unspectacular, but he does understand the game better than Zubac, at least as of now, and he can actually fill a need against a couple of vet centers out there who know how to take advantage of Zu's inexperience. Moz could possibly help Zubac develop in aspects of the game where big Zu is still weak.
Deng started out the season slow but he was getting better as we started to approach mid-season. Then it came time to sit him in favor of 'player development' aka tanking. Obviously he also has a ton of experience when it comes to recognizing where to move and when.
If we get Ball or another rookie PG in this draft it would be helpful to have a couple players on the roster who understand where to be on the floor, to mix in with Ingram, Zu, Randle, DLO, Clarkson and even Nance, all who are still learning to various degrees.
We're not tanking this coming year. I expect to see more minutes and more production out of Deng, and I think Moz and Zubac can both get plenty of time at center.
So I say we play them, instead of getting all impatient and trading them away, giving up significant assets in a year where we're not targeting free agents, just because we don't have the patience to do otherwise. |
Unfortunately, this is the most likely scenario, we are stuck with them, so play them. Perhaps try starting Dang at PF, all we heard is about how killer his numbers were the previous (to signing him) season @ PF in Miami, if you play him there, get his numbers and confidence up, you increase his trade value!
Zubby WILL get plenty of playing time (as well as Black) because Moz only averaged about 20 minutes per game, leaving 28 minutes for the other C's.. |
Many are hoping that Mosgov and Deng will have revival years, ala Swaggy P.
Mosgov has been a steady player who knows how to win via his years with LeBron. Hopefully with the kids having one additional year under his belt, they will actually effectively execute Luke's defensive schemes so that Mosgov doesn't have to always scramble needlessly on D.
Last year, Deng's stats went dramatically downward. Hopefully it was because he was trying to fit in and he was playing with kids that are still learning how to play in the NBA.
Maybe a defensive lineup could be Deng, Nwaba, Nance Jr., BI and TBlack. Outside of BI, don't know where the scoring will come from and the only ball handler is BI, but it would be a good UCLA full court pressing team |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7148
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: |
By the way, it was reported by two, not one, but two writers close to our front office and coaching staff that Ingram, Zubac and Nance are perceived as building pillars.and I'm perfectly aligned with them.
It doesn't have anything to do with youth movement, I like young or old players that I believe are going to help us to win the next championship. You are completely wrong when you tell I'm against all our young players, but you have your favorite while I have 3. |
I do agree with the values of Nance and Zu. Nance is the ultimate team mate and does so much (sometimes does not show up in the box score) to help the team win. His versatility and intangibles he brings is off the charts. I am hoping he is working on his game (which undoubtedly he is) and becomes more selfish next season as he is way to passive to take the next step. ZU is a diamond in the ruff and it would not be surprising to me if after the first quarter of next season (where he averages a double double) he becomes untouchable. |
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Hammett
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:32 am Post subject: |
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To reiterate Magic... whatever it takes but don't touch Ingram.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | nash wrote: |
By the way, it was reported by two, not one, but two writers close to our front office and coaching staff that Ingram, Zubac and Nance are perceived as building pillars.and I'm perfectly aligned with them.
It doesn't have anything to do with youth movement, I like young or old players that I believe are going to help us to win the next championship. You are completely wrong when you tell I'm against all our young players, but you have your favorite while I have 3. |
I do agree with the values of Nance and Zu. Nance is the ultimate team mate and does so much (sometimes does not show up in the box score) to help the team win. His versatility and intangibles he brings is off the charts. I am hoping he is working on his game (which undoubtedly he is) and becomes more selfish next season as he is way to passive to take the next step. ZU is a diamond in the ruff and it would not be surprising to me if after the first quarter of next season (where he averages a double double) he becomes untouchable. |
And people wonder why those who understand today's NBA game are worried about Magic taking over. Exhibit A.
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