| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
 Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It definitely lines up with what Magic has been talking about from the jump and now recently as well- it's not going to be a quick process, build with the young core, add FAs in 2018.
It's good to see Jeanie aligned with the FO and not talking about what a shame it would be not to have an AS next year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | She said family's support is important for every individual and every parent thinks their kid is the best in the team t so don't have any issues with Lavar. Also said FO will decide whom they will draft so she can't comment on draft. |
The irony is it coming from someone who just ousted a family member |
Yep...she's the perfect role model for anyone needing to fire idiot family members out of their business.
In other words...she's perfect for Lonzo. 
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | She's mimicking Jim and Mitch's plan. Hmmm |
Maybe with the youth movement. Sure. But in terms of free agent signings and how to court possible free agents, jim n mitch failed miserably and the lakers are still dealing with the consequences. Mos/deng and the Lamarcus Aldridge pitch were the last straws. People keep bringing up the youth that points at similarities between the two regimes but i dont thnk you can build a team without development of some kind anymore in today's NBA. |
jim and mitch didnt fail anything.
every free agent we so called went after. already had a #1 destination. Lemarcus was to go home to texas and play for a contender. lakers are in los angeles and are rebuilding. there is nothing to sell.
melo wanted the money and didnt want to play for the lakers with a broken down kobe and a bunch of kids. now granted he aint winning in a knick uni either. But he was never coming here, he was never going anywhere else. he almost looks to not want to go anywhere now even though they suck and phil is talking slick about him in the media. so that should tell you. we never had a chance with him.
dwight didnt want to come here to begin with. we were like his 4th option. if the cp3 deal would've gone thru he would've stayed since you would've had a competitive roster with a pass first pg.
but all in all. arent you glad we didnt get any of those players? I know i am.
mitch and jim didnt miss on a thing.
missing on Fa's is what Cuban has been dealing with for years. I mean he had a guy in his hands and the guy slipped away. thats not being able to close a deal or lure guys your way. |
Of course Mitch wasn't to blame, the new FO is executing his plan exactly as he intended. |
So was Mitch forced to sign MozDeng to those albatross contracts?
Just curious because you seem to know so much about the inner workings of...well everything...
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10811
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Ugh....why do people keep asking the 'Well if the new regime is committed to the youth, why were Jim and Mitch fired' question? 
I seriously don't get it. |
I seriously don't get how you don't get it.
The decision to oust Jim/Mitch was more than just ability to have a plan committed to youth. Which by the way, was never their plan. They kept trying to sign 2nd tier stars like LMA and Melo. They were trying to throw big money at Monroe... They did that year after year. There was no plan to go the young route. It worked to our benefit that they kept hiring all the wrong coaches-- which was another issue. But the lack of having a plan and just trying to sign big names, not capitalizing on traceable assets like Dwight and Pau, etc etc all showed poor management.
As we are seeing now, there was a weak infrastructure underneath Jim and Mitch in terms of analytics, health and wellness, etc. I'm not saying it was terrible but clearly behind other teams which given all our resources should never be an issue for the Lakers. We literally should be at the forefront of everything basketball. I don't put that on Mitch as GM but that was all on Jim. Jim didn't care to metaphorically speaking take off the baseball cap and try and CREATE the next era of Laker basketball. He just wanted to prove he could do it his way and he'd be great at it.
The craziest part is not ineptitude above but the tension that was underlying the entire organization. Jim and by extension, Mitch, would not even communicate with her on anything. She's basically stated she never had any idea what they were doing especially after she told them to consult with her/Magic on trading young players and then they kept her in the dark about Boogie. From all reports, from people like Byron who were actually there, you almost had to pick sides.. Jim or Jeanie. That is a TERRIBLE stench to have around an organization. Imagine the CEO and COO of Snapchat or Apple or any prominent business maybe not not liking each other personally but definitely not respecting each other professionally to the point where employees had be careful who they spoke to. That's juvenile in any sense but incredibly limiting for a business. |
To every word of what you just said: Umm....DUH? I agree 100%.
I wasn't one of the people asking that question (though it's obviously an argument that's carefully disguised as a question). I was asking why OTHER people keep asking it, as if the reason Jim and Mitch were fired was because they wanted to be patient and allow the kids to grow, while Jeanie just wanted to get rid of them in some desperate attempt to win now or something. My issue is that the anti Jeanie/Magic/Rob folks on this forum have speculated and unfairly assumed from the very beginning, and somewhere along the way they've confused their assumptions and speculations as fact, all while completely ignoring what Jeanie, Magic, and Pelinka have actually said about their plans moving forward.
Bottom line is that I was highlighting the implied bias and outright density of the people who keep asking why the old regime was scrapped since patiently investing in the kids was supposedly what they were trying to do (which they certainly weren't by the time they got axed). There's a long list of reasons as to why they were fired, all of which you highlighted. It's dense to act like they weren't fired for more reasons than one. |
Oh okay... my B. I see how you meant that now. I misunderstood.
But yeah... just crazy to me that people are not understanding why Mitch and Jim were fired or to a lesser extent throw out this idea that we fired them just to follow their plan. Last summer was really the deciding factor and IMO the Boogie situation was just the icing on the cake.
My gut tells me Mitch would have worked just fine if he had someone like Magic beside him to be the face and paint a vision with Luke but I do also agree that maybe his approach was just too antiquated for us to really turn the corner. In many ways, the Buss kids and Jeanie have to build this thing from the bottom up and the guys we had were just not on the cutting edge enough to make it happen.
I'm really excited about everything going on... I feel like Jeanie turned into the boss the days she got rid of Jim an everything she says indicates how much she trusts in Luke, in communication, in synergy, in building this the right way. Then you got Magic who seems to already have spearheaded the notion of winning ways and that has players excited. Pelinka seems to be a quiet assassin type where he's won't leave any stone unturned and I fully trust his ability to get to the best deal possible. Of course Luke is going to craft his vision for how he wants to play, which is the right way, and then he's got that charm about him that every players wants to be around.
We basically have our FO as young as our roster but I think we've got great people in place. We'll see where things end up but I fully believe in this new era. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CervantesRises wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | She's mimicking Jim and Mitch's plan. Hmmm |
Maybe with the youth movement. Sure. But in terms of free agent signings and how to court possible free agents, jim n mitch failed miserably and the lakers are still dealing with the consequences. Mos/deng and the Lamarcus Aldridge pitch were the last straws. People keep bringing up the youth that points at similarities between the two regimes but i dont thnk you can build a team without development of some kind anymore in today's NBA. |
jim and mitch didnt fail anything.
every free agent we so called went after. already had a #1 destination. Lemarcus was to go home to texas and play for a contender. lakers are in los angeles and are rebuilding. there is nothing to sell.
melo wanted the money and didnt want to play for the lakers with a broken down kobe and a bunch of kids. now granted he aint winning in a knick uni either. But he was never coming here, he was never going anywhere else. he almost looks to not want to go anywhere now even though they suck and phil is talking slick about him in the media. so that should tell you. we never had a chance with him.
dwight didnt want to come here to begin with. we were like his 4th option. if the cp3 deal would've gone thru he would've stayed since you would've had a competitive roster with a pass first pg.
but all in all. arent you glad we didnt get any of those players? I know i am.
mitch and jim didnt miss on a thing.
missing on Fa's is what Cuban has been dealing with for years. I mean he had a guy in his hands and the guy slipped away. thats not being able to close a deal or lure guys your way. |
Of course Mitch wasn't to blame, the new FO is executing his plan exactly as he intended. |
So was Mitch forced to sign MozDeng to those albatross contracts?
Just curious because you seem to know so much about the inner workings of...well everything... |
He was told.to get some vets and most of the available FAs didn't want our money. The Lakers haven't been a "destination" for a half dozen years yet posters here think that every FA wants to come, that all we need to sign two max FAs is cap space. We will need to make some smart deals if we are to rise to the point of contention again.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| digcom99 wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | She's mimicking Jim and Mitch's plan. Hmmm |
Maybe with the youth movement. Sure. But in terms of free agent signings and how to court possible free agents, jim n mitch failed miserably and the lakers are still dealing with the consequences. Mos/deng and the Lamarcus Aldridge pitch were the last straws. People keep bringing up the youth that points at similarities between the two regimes but i dont thnk you can build a team without development of some kind anymore in today's NBA. |
jim and mitch didnt fail anything.
every free agent we so called went after. already had a #1 destination. Lemarcus was to go home to texas and play for a contender. lakers are in los angeles and are rebuilding. there is nothing to sell.
melo wanted the money and didnt want to play for the lakers with a broken down kobe and a bunch of kids. now granted he aint winning in a knick uni either. But he was never coming here, he was never going anywhere else. he almost looks to not want to go anywhere now even though they suck and phil is talking slick about him in the media. so that should tell you. we never had a chance with him.
dwight didnt want to come here to begin with. we were like his 4th option. if the cp3 deal would've gone thru he would've stayed since you would've had a competitive roster with a pass first pg.
but all in all. arent you glad we didnt get any of those players? I know i am.
mitch and jim didnt miss on a thing.
missing on Fa's is what Cuban has been dealing with for years. I mean he had a guy in his hands and the guy slipped away. thats not being able to close a deal or lure guys your way. |
maybe this will help you understand why mitch and jim needed to go.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693926-magic-johnson-will-have-a-damning-case-against-jim-buss-and-mitch-kupchak |
Wow Ding made Jim Buss and Kupchak looks so bad in that article |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | She said family's support is important for every individual and every parent thinks their kid is the best in the team t so don't have any issues with Lavar. Also said FO will decide whom they will draft so she can't comment on draft. |
The irony is it coming from someone who just ousted a family member |
He did it himself due to a lack of performance. But wait, he led us to multiple rings with Kobe and Gasol, right?
Get the F off MY team
_________________
Dominating every day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | She's mimicking Jim and Mitch's plan. Hmmm |
Maybe with the youth movement. Sure. But in terms of free agent signings and how to court possible free agents, jim n mitch failed miserably and the lakers are still dealing with the consequences. Mos/deng and the Lamarcus Aldridge pitch were the last straws. People keep bringing up the youth that points at similarities between the two regimes but i dont thnk you can build a team without development of some kind anymore in today's NBA. |
jim and mitch didnt fail anything.
every free agent we so called went after. already had a #1 destination. Lemarcus was to go home to texas and play for a contender. lakers are in los angeles and are rebuilding. there is nothing to sell.
melo wanted the money and didnt want to play for the lakers with a broken down kobe and a bunch of kids. now granted he aint winning in a knick uni either. But he was never coming here, he was never going anywhere else. he almost looks to not want to go anywhere now even though they suck and phil is talking slick about him in the media. so that should tell you. we never had a chance with him.
dwight didnt want to come here to begin with. we were like his 4th option. if the cp3 deal would've gone thru he would've stayed since you would've had a competitive roster with a pass first pg.
but all in all. arent you glad we didnt get any of those players? I know i am.
mitch and jim didnt miss on a thing.
missing on Fa's is what Cuban has been dealing with for years. I mean he had a guy in his hands and the guy slipped away. thats not being able to close a deal or lure guys your way. |
Of course Mitch wasn't to blame, the new FO is executing his plan exactly as he intended. |
So was Mitch forced to sign MozDeng to those albatross contracts?
Just curious because you seem to know so much about the inner workings of...well everything... |
He was told.to get some vets and most of the available FAs didn't want our money. The Lakers haven't been a "destination" for a half dozen years yet posters here think that every FA wants to come, that all we need to sign two max FAs is cap space. We will need to make some smart deals if we are to rise to the point of contention again. |
Lot of excuses my dude.
So you have proof he was told to sign a fossil and a bench warming injury to 4 year deals way beyond what anyone else would have paid them?
And isn't he at least a little responsible for how the FO ran or was at least perceived?
You're basically saying that Mitch had no choice but to hitch his wagon to a moron. Really?
The reality is that MozDeng is a fireable offense. That it happened in the same offseason after we spent YEARS targeting that FA period makes it even worse.
So either he was incompetent, he was in cahoots, or he was too weak to object to this course as a horrific idea for the organization.
But he doesn't deserve the apologistic narrative that he had no choice when we have proof from Jesse Buss that Jim and Mitch were on the verge of trying to trade away our young core for brain damaged talent.
Just like he doesn't deserve the credit for what Magic and Rob appear to be doing now by retaining the young core and putting everything they can in place to support their development.
Mitch was a good GM...if for getting Pau for no other reason...but men have the right to resign, to be whistle blowers, to staunchly object...etc.
He was saddled with Jim, but choose to ride or die with him...that inevitably proved to be a major miscalculation on his part which suggests he was in agreement with Jim over their opinion of Jeannie even though she signed the front of the checks he cashed.
Jim and Mitch both deserved to get canned...no narrative can change that.
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That is stupid, what other choice did he have? Jim was his boss and usually deferred to Mitch's ideas but he wanted a winner and wanted to add vets instead of punting cap space yet another of season, his deadline was up. The better vet FAs wouldn't talk to us so he had to sign whoever would take Laker money. I guess he could have said no and resigned, but Jim would have still signed his vets. Possibly for closer to max money for all we know. I don't know where you work but if your boss tells you to do something, I doubt you tell them no.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52656
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Jeanie:
"In terms of basketball I wouldn't say I know how to make basketball decisions, but I think from where I sit, the most important thing is that you keep your draft picks, you develop your players, you make a commitment to your coaching staff, you give them what they need to accomplish the goals that have been assigned to them." |
So pretty much what the people she fired were doing . . .
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can buy that Mitch reluctantly signed Moz/Deng due to Jim desperately wanting to sign vets to give him some sort of chance at getting into the playoffs and being able say "We're competing" before his foolishly self-imposed deadline ran out.
But there's no way that I buy that Magic and Rob are now just executing the same game plan Jim and Mitch had. Desperation Moz/Deng signings and patiently growing the young core while waiting for 2018 FAs are on two opposite ends of the strategy spectrum. If Jim wanted to patiently grow the young core, they would have signed deals last summer like the ones that Philly did with their vets- one year deals, team options, etc.
Plus- there's been reporting that Jim was looking to trade parts of the young core at the deadline for Boogie, which hastened the firing. It lines up with what Vlade said about having a better deal on the table and then not being able to close that deal, and if that it is the case, that's definitely not growing the young core.
Also- Jim and Mitch had numerous opportunities to trade vets for picks to get assets and ensure high=powered tanking (Pau, Kaman, Swaggy, etc) but they never pulled the trigger once and lost valuable assets for nothing in the process.
Magic and Rob cashed in on Lou Williams with Magic less than one week into the job and Rob not even officially on board yet.
The idea that Magic and Rob are simply executing Jim's vision is laughable.
Jim chased Melo and LBJ when Lowry and IT were interested in becoming Lakers. He chased LMA. He was always looking for the big splash/ the quick fix. Our young core is here because of accident, incompetence and god luck.
If Jim had his way we'd be laboring under Melo's deal right now and would have most likely not been bad enough to keep our picks and build up the core.
Good riddance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Lou Williams deal had been negotiated by Mitch several weeks earlier. He was just waiting until the deadline in case something else opened up that he could get in on. Magic rushed to complete the trade in my opinion.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
