The concept of ring chasing is interesting. What I like to do is compare the competition. When Lebron was in Miami, it was quite clear that they would go to the finals every year. I even expected them to win 4/4 times they made it. But they only got 2, and barely squeezed a lucky one out against the Spurs. I truly believe that Miami team fell short and underachieved, especially after he self-proclaimed that Miami would win 7 championships, which was laughable. That was supposed to be the all-time great super team.
But now, even though I expect Cleveland to make the finals every year, I don't and didn't expect them to beat Golden State. This ring chasing stuff can quickly be debunked if he can win a couple more rings AGAINST a Golden State team that is obviously far more superior and probably one of the greatest teams ever assembled. If he can do that, no one is ever going to bring up ring chasing because it wouldn't matter anymore. But do I think Lebron will beat them, no.
hilarious people keep saying no one is going to bring it up. you got that from sports talk radio. thats what they say. The truth is, YES WE WILL. The same way I still call out Dwhistle for that miami vs dallas series. I have never forgot about him going to the Freethrow line some insane amt of times to win his first ring. and how bogus those calls were. never once forgot about it and neither does anyone who wasnt a miami fan or a dwade lover to a fault.
Every time i see bron, I see a great and a scary cat. all rolled up into one. a great that proved his greatness as a kid getting to the finals(in the weak east but as a kid I'll give you a pass.) but also a scary cat(ring chasing in your prime when you are 260 lbs, moving like a guard, running faster than everyone, jumping higher than everyone, still in the weak east. That will never leave my mind or anyone elses who grew up in an era where ring chasing only really happened when you were aging out or passed your prime years.
I love KD. but KD aint the KD he was in OKC even after they win this year. unless of course everyone on gstate gets hurt and he goes nuts and beats the cavs all by his lonesome.
So sorry if lebron, kyrie, and Klove beat the warriors so what. I'm not giving bron all the credit like kyrie and klove were not previous stars on their teams.
Klove is a 2 time all nba, 4 time allstar.
kyrie is a 1 time all nba, 4 time allstar.
Chris Bosh was a 1 time all nba, 11 time allstar
Dwade is a 8 time all nba, 12 time allstar.
See if lebron started out on these teams as a rookie and grew with these guys, that would be one thing. But to ring chase with these two groups of high caliber ballers. Sorry, the same way they cut shaq and kobe's MVP's in half and wouldnt want to give either a MVP trophy in some of those years. The same way bron's legendary status gets lowered due to him running to these teammates.
here's the thing about KD. we got on KD about ring chase. But we know bron started it. if you're trying to win a ring and you see the so called best player in the nba Ring chasing and stacking his team. Arent you almost forced to do the same to even compete? YEP
I mean how great is kobe? This man saw the Celtics get together with 3 official hall of famers and a possible one if rondo could've stayed healthy and kept his head on straight. Kobe didnt run and go call for reinforcements. He didnt run and go get help. He stuck with what he had for the most part. Him, gasol and the rest solid role guys. This is why theirs no way on earth in my mind bron can be better than kobe. he never allowed himself to be at his peak abilities then see if he could go out their and beat these teams with just him and maybe one other guy the cavs or some other team could afford. Nope he had to go get an all star team. And the fact that at least the miami team was healthy and they still didnt win all those titles that they should have. It kind of exposed all 3 of them didnt it. This era isnt as good as the older legends. But the young people watching the current nba just can't stomach that reality.
Some of us Lakers will remember this and hold it against Lebron, only because of the comparison between him and Kobe. We are biased. All of us on this board are to a certain extent. So when I say that people won't remember, I'm talking about the general public outside of Laker Nation. I agree with your points because I don't think Lebron has surpassed Kobe yet.
you do realize laker nation/kobe nation is huge. So thats a lot of people that wont forget this. But even the other fans that are not Stans of lebron. they still remember him team hopping and requesting allstars to play with constantly. Even this season he asked for even more help. Thats why some non laker fans were mad at him for that one. "Wow this guy is asking for even more help? how much help do you need king james?
how can we keep the narrative of "lebron carried the cavs and the heat" when he's asking for help because he knew/knows he can't/could not successfully carry the cavs or the heat alone or not even with one more set of hands.
People talking about lebron moved me out of my house all by himself. Yet I see Kevin Love, Kyrie irving, Dwade, and Cbosh looking around like...Can I get my cut because i helped you move a lot of stuff too?
The concept of ring chasing is interesting. What I like to do is compare the competition. When Lebron was in Miami, it was quite clear that they would go to the finals every year. I even expected them to win 4/4 times they made it. But they only got 2, and barely squeezed a lucky one out against the Spurs. I truly believe that Miami team fell short and underachieved, especially after he self-proclaimed that Miami would win 7 championships, which was laughable. That was supposed to be the all-time great super team.
But now, even though I expect Cleveland to make the finals every year, I don't and didn't expect them to beat Golden State. This ring chasing stuff can quickly be debunked if he can win a couple more rings AGAINST a Golden State team that is obviously far more superior and probably one of the greatest teams ever assembled. If he can do that, no one is ever going to bring up ring chasing because it wouldn't matter anymore. But do I think Lebron will beat them, no.
hilarious people keep saying no one is going to bring it up. you got that from sports talk radio. thats what they say. The truth is, YES WE WILL. The same way I still call out Dwhistle for that miami vs dallas series. I have never forgot about him going to the Freethrow line some insane amt of times to win his first ring. and how bogus those calls were. never once forgot about it and neither does anyone who wasnt a miami fan or a dwade lover to a fault.
Every time i see bron, I see a great and a scary cat. all rolled up into one. a great that proved his greatness as a kid getting to the finals(in the weak east but as a kid I'll give you a pass.) but also a scary cat(ring chasing in your prime when you are 260 lbs, moving like a guard, running faster than everyone, jumping higher than everyone, still in the weak east. That will never leave my mind or anyone elses who grew up in an era where ring chasing only really happened when you were aging out or passed your prime years.
I love KD. but KD aint the KD he was in OKC even after they win this year. unless of course everyone on gstate gets hurt and he goes nuts and beats the cavs all by his lonesome.
So sorry if lebron, kyrie, and Klove beat the warriors so what. I'm not giving bron all the credit like kyrie and klove were not previous stars on their teams.
Klove is a 2 time all nba, 4 time allstar.
kyrie is a 1 time all nba, 4 time allstar.
Chris Bosh was a 1 time all nba, 11 time allstar
Dwade is a 8 time all nba, 12 time allstar.
See if lebron started out on these teams as a rookie and grew with these guys, that would be one thing. But to ring chase with these two groups of high caliber ballers. Sorry, the same way they cut shaq and kobe's MVP's in half and wouldnt want to give either a MVP trophy in some of those years. The same way bron's legendary status gets lowered due to him running to these teammates.
here's the thing about KD. we got on KD about ring chase. But we know bron started it. if you're trying to win a ring and you see the so called best player in the nba Ring chasing and stacking his team. Arent you almost forced to do the same to even compete? YEP
I mean how great is kobe? This man saw the Celtics get together with 3 official hall of famers and a possible one if rondo could've stayed healthy and kept his head on straight. Kobe didnt run and go call for reinforcements. He didnt run and go get help. He stuck with what he had for the most part. Him, gasol and the rest solid role guys. This is why theirs no way on earth in my mind bron can be better than kobe. he never allowed himself to be at his peak abilities then see if he could go out their and beat these teams with just him and maybe one other guy the cavs or some other team could afford. Nope he had to go get an all star team. And the fact that at least the miami team was healthy and they still didnt win all those titles that they should have. It kind of exposed all 3 of them didnt it. This era isnt as good as the older legends. But the young people watching the current nba just can't stomach that reality.
Imagine, gary payton in his prime saying you know what. I'm teaming up with Jordan and let me call Barkely too and see if he will play with us in chicago. Wait..what? that sounds insane. but thats exactly what bron did..not once. but twice. here's the kicker bron is supposed to be the jordan in the story. so its really MJ joining forces with 2 other stars. crazy.
As the Celtics were beefing up Kobe asked to be traded to Chicago
kobe asked to be trade to chicago as the lakers were losing steam. and who did kobe want to play with in the Chi? ..... I remember. DENG. oooooo. DENG..scary. was deng ever a superstar? No. He's seen two all star teams. now go back up and compare that to the list of Klove, Kyrie, Dwade, and bosh.
Lebron is a monster. I cheer against him in every series, but as a basketball fan, dude is a top 5 all time great, with the chance to be the 2nd best ever in my book.
Completely agree. As much as I despise him, I have nothing but respect for his talents. And of course as a big Kobe fan, I naturally want to be defensive and defend the Kobester, but he's retired now. He is an all-time great and I don't want to exert too much energy defending him now. Just respect the greats. After all, I am a Laker fan first.
I keep it simple. I only care who is in my top 10. Kobe and lebron are in it. So that's a wrap for me. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
See if lebron started out on these teams as a rookie and grew with these guys, that would be one thing. .
It's OK for a player to be lucky and have a GM surround him with talent but it's not OK for a player to be smart and surround himself with talent?
Never understood that.
Some people think it was bad for Lebron to join Bosh and Wade in Miami, but they would have been fine with him staying in Cleveland and having Bosh and Wade join him there.
Even this season he asked for even more help. Thats why some non laker fans were mad at him for that one. "Wow this guy is asking for even more help? how much help do you need king james?
I see it differently. By pressuring his GM, Lebron presumably encouraged him to make additions that improved the team and give them a better chance to win.
What is wrong with that?
As fans, don't we want our superstar to constantly recruit good free agents, no matter how good our team is? Is there ever a time we say, Nah, we have enough talent; let some other teams get better instead of us?
As much as I hate Lebron, he already passed Kobe, Duncan, Shaq last season in my book. If he wins this here, he will have a solid case to argue for #2 of all-time.
LBJ going back to Cleveland wasn't ring chasing. He went to a 33 win team that added Kevin Love, a player who isn't better than any of GSWs fab four.
Hmm, I'm not even sure I'd rather have Kyrie over GSWs big four. Would you guys?
Also, re ring chasing. I don't consider it ring chasing if you're the man, or one of the key core players. When you do so on a severely reduced role, that to me is ring chasing. Just me.
LBJ going back to Cleveland wasn't ring chasing. He went to a 33 win team that added Kevin Love, a player who isn't better than any of GSWs fab four.
Hmm, I'm not even sure I'd rather have Kyrie over GSWs big four. Would you guys?
Also, re ring chasing. I don't consider it ring chasing if you're the man, or one of the key core players. When you do so on a severely reduced role, that to me is ring chasing. Just me.
If Kobe had chosen to another team like James or KD after 3 peaks and Fab 4 experiment instead of playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown......at that time Kobe was just 26.
If Kobe had chosen to another team like James or KD after 3 peaks and Fab 4 experiment instead of playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown......at that time Kobe was just 26.
And after 2 peaks and loss to Mavs......
and it didn't help that the cp3 superteam was vetoed. i still maintain that particular superteam would have had major impacts on the formation of the warriors or cav superteams, and prevented at least one of those miami rings. not to mention being robbed of getting to see kobe do his thing with a real playmaker on the team, something he was never able to experience outside of Odom's temporary duties.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144469 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject:
Sina wrote:
If Kobe had chosen to another team like James or KD after 3 peaks and Fab 4 experiment instead of playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown......at that time Kobe was just 26.
And after 2 peaks and loss to Mavs......
He tried _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
If LeBron has an injury and can still lead his team to a ship this year, then I'll give him props. I always wonder how many Kobe would have won if he was always 100%
The thing that I can't get over with LeBron is he quit on two teams, cavs 1.0 and aging/breaking down heat team. Was it smart or opportunistic? Sure, but Jordan, Kobe, etc. did not leave organizations and quit.
Barkley had a good segment about this on the espn710 morning show recently.
Kobe quit in 2008, it was all over at that point. I don't care who is better between Kobe and Lebron but Barkley would be carrying both of their bags.
Barkley is Top 5 all-time in his position. Lets not be disrespectful _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
As much as I hate Lebron, he already passed Kobe, Duncan, Shaq last season in my book. If he wins this here, he will have a solid case to argue for #2 of all-time.
Agreed. And the whole ring chasing is stupid. Kobe was drafted onto a team with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, then got Glen Rice, Phil Jackson, etc..and won 3 titles. Who would leave a situation like that?
Lebron was drafted to a (bleep) franchise like the Cavs and after 7 years the best player they could surround himself with was Mo Williams? Anyone think Kobe would stick around in that situation? Hell NO.
I applaud a player like Lebron for taking control of his career instead of leaving it into the hands of a GM who may never deliver the talent to surround him tp win a championship.
LeBron had awful teammates for 7 years in Cleveland. Everyone acting like he's the luckiest superstar ever or has had the most help relative to the league in the corresponding years conveniently leaves that out.
I think 90% of people out there would say at this point that Lebron is and will go down as better than Kobe. The remaining 10% are probably all Lakers fans. Chuck seems to change his mind depending on the day anyway.
Anyway, I've moved on from this one. Time to accept it.
An IF is your argument?
Theres a different between "Better/Best" and "Greater"
Kobe is better than LeBron. Kobe is arguable the Best Basketball player ever; when you factor talent and ability.
However, LeBron will have the better resume when its all said and done. So in the macro scope of things LeBron will be seen as greater when he retires.
And lastly, SO WHAT. If folks on a Laker forum think is bias toward a Laker, get over it. Go to a cavs forum if you want a different answer _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
LeBron had awful teammates for 7 years in Cleveland. Everyone acting like he's the luckiest superstar ever or has had the most help relative to the league in the corresponding years conveniently leaves that out.
Sure?
In 2009 the Cavs went 66-16 and lost to Dwight
the following year they went 61-21 and lost in the 2nd round to the Celtics.
LeBron has thee most excuses and "passes" attached to his career. Give me a break. _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
Well, at least Scottie still says Lebron hasn't reached Kobe. And that's good enough for me
Well good for you, enjoy. More power to you.
Being objective, Pip also said that that LeBron was better than MJ a few years ago; Then took it back.
Pip is obviously emotional unstable haha _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
As much as I hate Lebron, he already passed Kobe, Duncan, Shaq last season in my book. If he wins this here, he will have a solid case to argue for #2 of all-time.
Agreed. And the whole ring chasing is stupid. Kobe was drafted onto a team with Shaq, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, then got Glen Rice, Phil Jackson, etc..and won 3 titles. Who would leave a situation like that?
Lebron was drafted to a (bleep) franchise like the Cavs and after 7 years the best player they could surround himself with was Mo Williams? Anyone think Kobe would stick around in that situation? Hell NO.
I applaud a player like Lebron for taking control of his career instead of leaving it into the hands of a GM who may never deliver the talent to surround him tp win a championship.
I have a hard time putting LeBron over Kobe when Kobe has more rings and is 3rd all time in scoring. Even with Duncan, more rings And he's beaten LeBron twice really bad.
And Kobe stuck around with Mihm and Luke Walton so theres that. _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
Simply put, LeBron is great. He isn't Top 5 all-time, but he's Top 10 and rising.
He hasn't passed Kobe nor Duncan; Nor Magic and Kareem for the guys with the "#2 behind MJ" talk. Cavs will lose the finals in 2 weeks then everyone will rethink; its just the rhythm of this season. THEN, LeBron will be right back in the Finals next year and we'll be right back here.
Might better suit us to just watch. All this talk is equivalent to talking through the movie _________________ 1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. LeBron
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Russell
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