Clarkson or Nwaba - Who would be a better asset for the Lakers?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Clarkson or Nwaba - Who would be a better asset for the Lakers?

Lakerpark wrote:
Who would be a better asset for the Lakers going forward:

1. Clarkson if he could learn to play halfway decent defense

2. Nwaba if he learns to be a halfway decent 3 point shooter?

I know some of you will smirk, but I wouldn't mind seeing a bench mob backcourt of Ennis and either Nwaba or Clarkson depending on who can more quickly become a more complete and productive player.


SMIRKING: This premise may work in your Fantasy League but there is no way in hell, that Nwaba is better or will ever be better than Clarkson, it's just a dream son, let it go..
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.


Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.


Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?


You're talking about the Cleveland game that I just mentioned. The one where the coaching staff confirmed he was playing his usual role.

I'm saying it because there is no evidence that he was actually better from the SG spot.
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject:

Clarkson because he's proven and he'd be a great bench guy.
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tox
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.


Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?


You should look at the stats -- he wasn't any better playing the "2" than the 1. He started off hot playing next to JC (though as fiendish noted, his best game had him running on ball anyways), but he sort of slumped in April (it happens). His overall averages weren't any different than his season averages, really. And in fact, I recall him playing more off ball to end the season, when he slumped a bit. Not claiming any causality here, just rebutting the "he's a 2" argument.

It's the Porzingis effect: start off playing really well, so that narratives are set. Then even if you struggle, no one will remember. Or the Nick Young effect on defense.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.


Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?


D'lo only played "2" for about one game, you watch every other game after the fact he plays exactly the same as he did at point guard and is the guy doing the majority of the ball handling.

He was essentially given the exact same responsibilities he was at point guard, they just changed the 'title' but style of play was the exact same, as well as his responsibility running the team. So yeah. He was still our point guard primarily, they just switched the title to 'shooting guard' but if you're actually paying attention, his role was exactly the same.

The "narrative" because he was hot in the Cleveland game became "oh he's better at shooting guard..." but again, the narrative just sticks regardless of what's actually happens. He was playing the exact same role he always did right after, but everyone already had the narrative in their minds.

They will watch D'lo continue to bring the ball up the court, operate out of the pick and roll, and watch JC primarily keep attacking off ball but will continue to say D'lo was the 'shooting guard' That's what makes it so funny.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject:



You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.


Only this time he would have been correct.


He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.


He wasn't right about it.


How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.


He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.


Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?


You should look at the stats -- he wasn't any better playing the "2" than the 1. He started off hot playing next to JC (though as fiendish noted, his best game had him running on ball anyways), but he sort of slumped in April (it happens). His overall averages weren't any different than his season averages, really. And in fact, I recall him playing more off ball to end the season, when he slumped a bit. Not claiming any causality here, just rebutting the "he's a 2" argument.

It's the Porzingis effect: start off playing really well, so that narratives are set. Then even if you struggle, no one will remember. Or the Nick Young effect on defense.
The "he's a 2" narrative comes from the fact that... he is a 2." he has pretty much always been a 2 until he came to the lakers and we asked him to be a full time 1. Which he could learn to be. But truthfully if you watch him. he's best being a very adept passing 2. there is a difference. It's hard for anyone to use stats to disprove this because JC is also not a 1. He could be a solid 2 that knows how to pass a bit. The only way you will truly know if DLO is by far best as a SG is if he plays alongside an actual PG. not a PG/SG. If we draft young ball. we will find out how good DLo is at that 2 spot.
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Clarkson. He can play either guard spot and put up buckets out of Pnr and get to the basket at will.

Imo clarkson +D'Zo is a 3 headed monster that solidifies our backcourt

I look at the team as set in the back court and front court already. Now we need to get set at the wing. I'd like someone who can play the 2/3 position but a legit 3 or 3/4 would be great too. Hopefully we can land someone at 28.

I like semi ojele for his scoring ability at 28 but I'd prefer jake Wiley. He screams 3&D wing to me for whatever reason.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dominator wrote:
This thread would have sent Dave20 into a murderous rage.
Only this time he would have been correct.
He was right about DLo at the 2 too. Caught a lot of flack for it but stood his ground.
He wasn't right about it.
How so? DLo was moved to the 2 later part of the season playing more off ball. Did pretty well I thought.
He played just as well offensively as a PG and better defensively.
Disagree. Thought he looked a lot more comfortable at the 2. Had the best game of his career from there. He's still good at the 1, but he was stellar in his time at the 2.

Are you just saying this because of Dave20?
D'lo only played "2" for about one game, you watch every other game after the fact he plays exactly the same as he did at point guard and is the guy doing the majority of the ball handling.

He was essentially given the exact same responsibilities he was at point guard, they just changed the 'title' but style of play was the exact same, as well as his responsibility running the team. So yeah. He was still our point guard primarily, they just switched the title to 'shooting guard' but if you're actually paying attention, his role was exactly the same.

The "narrative" because he was hot in the Cleveland game became "oh he's better at shooting guard..." but again, the narrative just sticks regardless of what's actually happens. He was playing the exact same role he always did right after, but everyone already had the narrative in their minds.

They will watch D'lo continue to bring the ball up the court, operate out of the pick and roll, and watch JC primarily keep attacking off ball but will continue to say D'lo was the 'shooting guard' That's what makes it so funny.
DLo did do well offensively when he was playing the 2 though he still initiated many of the plays. One could say that not having the responsibilities of being the PG freed him from thinking the game and just play. DLo is trying to be a PG like Harden and Lillard (in terms of a scoring PG - like Fultz and Fox seem to be) while Ball is a pass first PG. Seems like having two excellent guards - one excels in passing (along with being the floor general, naturally) and the other in scoring. If a DLo insists in being THE point guard, then there is a problem. Ball and DLo can really flourish in Luke's system

Regarding JC and Nwaba - JC has the most talent, hence the more is expected while Nwaba brings something that JC and DLo are not able to bring - defense. Having JC coming off the bench where he can totally focus on being instant offense would seemingly be the best fit for him and where he can flourish. Having him as the starting SG would mean expecting much more defense.

JC and DLo have shown that guarding the perimeter is not their forte or (seemingly) one of their high priorities (despite their well-intentioned words). It will take a few years for them to learn the defensive principals that Luke is teaching them while Nwaba already has those principals embedded in his play. His (along with JC and DLo) off-season improvements will dictate where they will fit on next year's roster.

Is The Cap's words true
"“They can improve, but it takes hard work,” Abdul-Jabbar told Medina. “They have to listen to the coaches. So many of them are so enamored with their own talent that they don’t realize they still have things to learn.”"
http://www.espn.com/blog/nba/rumors/post/_/id/42944/rumor-central-lakers-to-meet-with-kareem-abdul-jabbar-about-role-within-organization
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.


But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.


But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!


The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject:

Shouldn't the question be Nwaba or Ennis?
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:08 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
Though they are not the most talented players, having Nwaba, Nance Jr and Ingram on the court - the ball will move and coverage mistakes on defenses will be limited with greater intensity.

JC, DLo and Randle are more athletic hence depend more on their physical skills than basketball IQ - hence playing D will take a few more years. With Randle eligible for a new contract next year - it is an important year for him
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:16 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
Shouldn't the question be Nwaba or Ennis?


Yes

you want your 3rd guard to be good offensively or defensively?
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
Though they are not the most talented players, having Nwaba, Nance Jr and Ingram on the court - the ball will move and coverage mistakes on defenses will be limited with greater intensity.

JC, DLo and Randle are more athletic hence depend more on their physical skills than basketball IQ - hence playing D will take a few more years. With Randle eligible for a new contract next year - it is an important year for him

wat
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
Though they are not the most talented players, having Nwaba, Nance Jr and Ingram on the court - the ball will move and coverage mistakes on defenses will be limited with greater intensity.

JC, DLo and Randle are more athletic hence depend more on their physical skills than basketball IQ - hence playing D will take a few more years. With Randle eligible for a new contract next year - it is an important year for him

wat


Wait what?????

DLo has length but lacking athleticism . If anything, he has the highest bball IQ on the team. His length and bball will make him a decent team defender.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.


But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!


The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.


Clarkson is a chucker. You gotta be really good scorer to play that way and have positive impact. Clarkson is not so he's a role player. You play him when he's hot and sit him when he's not . He's also atrocious defensively. Nwaba already had better overall impact than Clarkson. But I think these guys compliment each other playing off the bench.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
tox wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
Though they are not the most talented players, having Nwaba, Nance Jr and Ingram on the court - the ball will move and coverage mistakes on defenses will be limited with greater intensity.

JC, DLo and Randle are more athletic hence depend more on their physical skills than basketball IQ - hence playing D will take a few more years. With Randle eligible for a new contract next year - it is an important year for him
wat
Wait what?????

DLo has length but lacking athleticism . If anything, he has the highest bball IQ on the team. His length and bball will make him a decent team defender.
Everybody is hoping that he will be a decent perimeter player. At this time, he is not. With JC and DLo in the backcourt, it makes it hard for the front court to effective defend.

Nance Jr. has the highest basketball IQ of any of the players. One can see it on how he positions himself on offense and defense while DLo/JC/Randle are always scrambling being dependent on their great raw athletic skills to bail them out like it did in college.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:32 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
CRoost wrote:
tox wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
MJST wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
MJST wrote:
You see all the little things Nwaba does but they're so very important.
But I don't think the Lakers need another trainee doing "little things", they need someone who does LOTS of BIG things...!
The "little" things he does are "big" things over the course of the game, like his defense, making the right plays, not playing outside of himself.

Basically if he gets his three point shot down he's of more value to the team than Clarkson who can only score and sometimes his need to only want to score is done to the determent of his teammates and the team itself.
Though they are not the most talented players, having Nwaba, Nance Jr and Ingram on the court - the ball will move and coverage mistakes on defenses will be limited with greater intensity.

JC, DLo and Randle are more athletic hence depend more on their physical skills than basketball IQ - hence playing D will take a few more years. With Randle eligible for a new contract next year - it is an important year for him
wat
Wait what?????

DLo has length but lacking athleticism . If anything, he has the highest bball IQ on the team. His length and bball will make him a decent team defender.
Everybody is hoping that he will be a decent perimeter player. At this time, he is not. With JC and DLo in the backcourt, it makes it hard for the front court to effective defend.

Nance Jr. has the highest basketball IQ of any of the players. One can see it on how he positions himself on offense and defense while DLo/JC/Randle are always scrambling being dependent on their great raw athletic skills to bail them out like it did in college.

Nance has the best defense of the young core, sure. But Russell does not rely on his athletic skills (maybe his wingspan is what you meant?). And Russell is also really good at positional defense so I have no idea what you're talking about. In fact, it's in scramble type situations where his athletic limitations/ lack of motor hurt him the most, IMO.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject:

Russell is a combo guard, we are never going to have a definite answer about his best position. After Lou trade Russell was possibly our best PG and our best SG too.

Fantastic player in terms of roster construction because you can use him anywhere. If you find a more proficient PG you can slide him to the SG spot. If you find a taller and more efficient SG you can also bring him from the bench to play either spot. He is better than Clarkson at everything but attacking the basket.
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