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BigBallerBrand
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:46 am Post subject: What led to our fast start last season; and why couldn't we keep it up? |
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Now that we have the entire season complete, and since we have no basketball to watch until Thursday, I'm trying to understand what really went wrong. I remember Swaggy and Dlo got hurt, but forgot what led to the downward spiral after the (10-7?) start
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:56 am Post subject: |
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The players were all excited, and even celebrated by checking boards on the internet. But then to their dismay they found that there were a few posters that had tanks in their signatures. Thus all excitement was lost when they realized people wanted to tank instead of win, and as a result they gave up and we lost about 50 games in the following months
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| The excitement of a new coach, new offense and the bench mob playing incredibly were the largest contributors to the fast start. Injuries caused us to fall apart partly because of the obvious drop off in talent, but also because our starters and bench were really two different units with two different styles. That meant a guy like Clarkson couldn't be plugged in to the first unit for D'Lo (or Nick) because he was accustomed to playing totally differently from the starters. Which meant Luke would plug in a guy like Huertas or Calderon, which preserved the bench unit but meant you're starting Calderon in 2016/17 or Huertas in an NBA game. And with the bench unit coming back down to earth a bit, there's no way they could compensate for that drop off. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Started 1-3, then won 6 of next 8 and were 7-5, then went to 10-10 and then the wheels fell off.
Nance got hurt early then Dlo and as I recall this occurred during or just before their most brutal schedule of the year where they had I think like 18 games in 30 days with numerous back to backs and only 1 day of rest at most in between games. Injuries plus the fact teams now had sufficient intel on what the lakers were doing to adjust. By the time that 18 game marathon was over the lakers were well under .500 and flaws were showing.
The team was being celebrated for a strong bench, but their piling losses just showed it meant their starting lineup was meh. Also to win it typically required a bunch of players to contribute and they really had no one consistent guy that could just pull them through (Lou Williams was close in this regard but not good enough to carry them to wins).
That's what my memory recalls - I didn't go check for factual accuracy etc. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Injuries derailed this season.
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pmacla
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| injuries and other teams having tape to prepare for what we where doing under Luke |
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governator
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| injuries |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:19 am Post subject: |
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It was fools gold all along.
Lou Williams and Nick Young shot them to some wins early in the season but they were still giving up tons of points.
Once those guys came to earth a bit, the wheels fell off and the defense reached near All Star Game levels.
Then we rolled out the Tank around the start of the year and that was that.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: |
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A starting 5 that could excel in an organized offense, and a second unit of 5 players who could play streetball really well against other teams' second units. With just barely enough defense for some stellar offense to win a lot of games. However, no depth and other than Nance/Randle no interchangeability, so when the injuries started to pile up there was no cohesion, and plenty of limited offense and hideous defense as mistakes multiplied on both sides of the court.
Followed by 'player development' aka tanking. |
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pmacla
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| could look at it this way we started 10-10 ended 6-6 so we where 16-16 over 32 games thats almost half a season soooooo maybe we are closer to being a 500 team than we think if all the players take a leap this year and Luke gets more comfortable as a head coach in year 2 with clearer direction and stability from management |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Fluctuation in a long season. They happen. Great teams go on losing streaks. Bad teams go on winning streaks.
That's why you play 82 games. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: |
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One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard. |
Good call. Not a fan of those either. Curiously, Byron did the same thing. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard. |
Good call. Not a fan of those either. Curiously, Byron did the same thing. |
Yeah. That's a real weakness of Luke's coaching, stemming back to his stint with the Warriors. He seems wedded to these hockey substitutions. Eventually, you will have your starters that need longer play and leash, and combine them with bench players.
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crucifixion
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| DrDent wrote: | Started 1-3, then won 6 of next 8 and were 7-5, then went to 10-10 and then the wheels fell off.
Nance got hurt early then Dlo and as I recall this occurred during or just before their most brutal schedule of the year where they had I think like 18 games in 30 days with numerous back to backs and only 1 day of rest at most in between games. Injuries plus the fact teams now had sufficient intel on what the lakers were doing to adjust. By the time that 18 game marathon was over the lakers were well under .500 and flaws were showing.
The team was being celebrated for a strong bench, but their piling losses just showed it meant their starting lineup was meh. Also to win it typically required a bunch of players to contribute and they really had no one consistent guy that could just pull them through (Lou Williams was close in this regard but not good enough to carry them to wins).
That's what my memory recalls - I didn't go check for factual accuracy etc. |
Yeah I watched the beginning of the season and Nance was a difference maker. Too many little things he did that couldn't be measured. Once he got hurt, the stellar bench suffered and the offense couldn't hold |
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Gimme_the_rock
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
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Me too. The detrimental effect of this was really amplified when players started to go down due to injury. Both units went through some really rough patches while trying to acclimate.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | DrDent wrote: | Started 1-3, then won 6 of next 8 and were 7-5, then went to 10-10 and then the wheels fell off.
Nance got hurt early then Dlo and as I recall this occurred during or just before their most brutal schedule of the year where they had I think like 18 games in 30 days with numerous back to backs and only 1 day of rest at most in between games. Injuries plus the fact teams now had sufficient intel on what the lakers were doing to adjust. By the time that 18 game marathon was over the lakers were well under .500 and flaws were showing.
The team was being celebrated for a strong bench, but their piling losses just showed it meant their starting lineup was meh. Also to win it typically required a bunch of players to contribute and they really had no one consistent guy that could just pull them through (Lou Williams was close in this regard but not good enough to carry them to wins).
That's what my memory recalls - I didn't go check for factual accuracy etc. |
Yeah I watched the beginning of the season and Nance was a difference maker. Too many little things he did that couldn't be measured. Once he got hurt, the stellar bench suffered and the offense couldn't hold |
DLO/Swaggy were playing really well and both went out nearly simultaneously. Lakers scrambled to find a playmaker, starting Lou, Calderon, Huertas, JC, and even Ingram at PG. It just wasn't the same. Then you had Nance, Jules, and Black go out too.
Too many injuries.
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nash
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: |
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We lost half of our top 4 players when Nance and Dlo missed games and later we moved our best player.
Most teams aren't going to win games without 75% of its top guys. |
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NBALakerLegends
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| I hope Luke learns from that this year. Hockey substitutions are not the way to go in the NBA. All in all, it worked out for us but this year we need to stagger lineups especially the guards. Keep one of DLo or Ball out there at all times. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| NBALakerLegends wrote: | | I hope Luke learns from that this year. Hockey substitutions are not the way to go in the NBA. All in all, it worked out for us but this year we need to stagger lineups especially the guards. Keep one of DLo or Ball out there at all times. |
Amen to that. We can have 2 legit combo guards who can create at all times.
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard. |
Managing a real rotation, rather than robo-subs, is my biggest complaint and worry about Luke going forward. Managing a real 8-9 man rotation shouldn't be that difficult. |
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pmacla
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard. |
that did change when management changed, dont know if that was a directive from up high or Luke just learning on the job and having growing pains |
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| pmacla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | One of my concerns with Luke's coaching is his insistence on almost hockey-line substitution style robo-subs.
So there was no cohesion built between the starting/bench units. It was almost a 5 out, 5 in system.
When injuries hit, we had to mix and match and the unfamiliarity really hit us hard. |
that did change when management changed, dont know if that was a directive from up high or Luke just learning on the job and having growing pains |
I think part of that change was due to certain guys being shut down (or moved altogether) forcing Luke to change. Of course, I could be (and hope to be) wrong about that. |
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MJST
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Inexperience & lack of fundamentals were factors to start last season, and I can't help but think that played a role in Luke's robo-sub pattern. I think Luke felt he had to do this to keep the somewhat organized group together and keep the streetballers together. I think this coming season's squad will be much improved in that regard.
Also, if we select Ball I agree this would change the dynamic as he's a willing passer with shooting skills and a high bb IQ. Once he gets used to the NBA game, if either Ball or DLO is on the court at any given time that would help the team stay organized as other players are subbed in and out.
So the question in my mind is whether Luke prefers the robo-sub pattern or whether he felt he had to last year. I expect Luke will cut down on the wholesale 5 player swaps this time around but we'll see. |
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