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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe and Shaq isn't a superteam but LeBron with Kyrie and Love on the bench is. (2015 finals. "LeBron lost even though he had a superteam!!! Chalk up another loss in his finals record!! Haha, finals record! Truly a telling metric!! Losing in the 1st round or missing the playoffs is better than losing in the finals!!!")
Kobe and Shaq isn't a superteam but LeBron and Kyrie and K-Love who is scoring 10ppg and only playing 26mpg is a superteam. (2016 finals against a 73 win team)
Kobe being the lesser player on those 3peat teams and in one finals averaging 15ppg is somehow not a big deal, LeBron has never been the 2nd best player on any title team but his titles are meaningless because Bogut who played 15mpg before going down got injured, and Steph played like an idiot. We have to take that into context guys. Forget having one of the best finals of all time, by basic stats, advanced stats, and the eye test, because a 73 win team was a little bit beaten up after ~95 games. Who'd have thunk it.
Oh and that 2013 finals? Meaningless. Ray Allen hit a 3 point shot dude. Come on now.
Last edited by manofboy on Sun May 28, 2017 12:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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HOF Rookie
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | HOF Rookie wrote: |
This may be just me, by I hate guys who don't want to compete.
To join a 73 win team that was 2 minutes away from back to back titles when you are a MVP level candidate just spells out a lack of mental fortitude |
I think every superstar in NBA history, if given the choice, would be surrounded by as much talent as possible. From MJ to Kobe to Magic to Russell, none of them would have any trouble at all being surrounded by a completely unfair amount of talent that obliterated their opponents. They don't want to compete on an even playing field. They want every advantage in order to obliterate their opponents |
I'm not sure I believe that. You get too many alpha males on an team and those are usually the top talents, leads to issues.
What's the point of winning if there isn't any challenge? |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Shaq was the Lebron in the first 3 titles and Kobe was Kyrie. In the last 2 Kobe was Lebron and Pau was Kyrie.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| HOF Rookie wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | HOF Rookie wrote: |
This may be just me, by I hate guys who don't want to compete.
To join a 73 win team that was 2 minutes away from back to back titles when you are a MVP level candidate just spells out a lack of mental fortitude |
I think every superstar in NBA history, if given the choice, would be surrounded by as much talent as possible. From MJ to Kobe to Magic to Russell, none of them would have any trouble at all being surrounded by a completely unfair amount of talent that obliterated their opponents. They don't want to compete on an even playing field. They want every advantage in order to obliterate their opponents |
I'm not sure I believe that. You get too many alpha males on an team and those are usually the top talents, leads to issues.
What's the point of winning if there isn't any challenge? |
Ask Durant. He's the only player to make a move like this, it's unprecedented.
Maybe Moses Malone too, I can't say I know enough about the league back in the day but I've heard he did something pretty weak too. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38792
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. BTW, I've said nothing of Lebron but seems like it hit a nerve.
Last edited by lakersken80 on Sun May 28, 2017 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| HOF Rookie wrote: | | What's the point of winning if there isn't any challenge? |
First, lots of super teams fail, so it's always a challenge.
Second, we are not talking about a pickup game at the Y. Winning rings can get you in the Hall of Fame, earn you millions of dollars, and lots of other goodies.
Third, do you really think Magic is less proud of his rings because he had a superteam around him than, say, Hakeem is of his rings? |
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| crucifixion wrote: | | Lol what? Kobe was a nothing, a peon to Shaq at the time. If anything Shaq was joining Eddie Jones and ceballos as teammates. That Kobe kid was a nice to have and someone that might turn into a decent playing partner. No one expected Kobe to turn into who he did |
The Logo and his eye test did. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. |
Incorrect. Love couldn't stay on the floor because he's a bad defender. He might only see 20-25mpg this year again. Regardless, the amount of stars or great players on a team isn't a big deal when the other team (who just broke the win record) also has 3 superstars. Try objectively looking at context. |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10657
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. |
Incorrect. Love couldn't stay on the floor because he's a bad defender. He might only see 20-25mpg this year again. Regardless, the amount of stars or great players on a team isn't a big deal when the other team (who just broke the win record) also has 3 superstars. Try objectively looking at context. |
Okay so then diminish the Cavs glory for coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team because Curry played awful and Klay was on and off. Clearly they weren't a super team, right?
This kind of post-factum rationalization has you looking golden 10 out of 10 times. Hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe you forgot all the talk when Lebron joined Cleveland how its championship or bust for them as the new superteam. You could argue then that the Heat teams weren't "super" because Bosh was relegated to being a simple stretch 4 at the end.
And who is the 3rd superstar in GS? Klay? |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
The year before he joined us, Payton was an all-star who put up 20-4-8.
Malone put up 21-8-5 the year before he joined us. He just missed out on making the all-NBA third team.
They weren't in their primes in any sense but they were still stars.
If we weren't a superteam that year, I'd say the term is meaningless. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38792
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
The year before he joined us, Payton was an all-star who put up 20-4-8.
Malone put up 21-8-5 the year before he joined us. He just missed out on making the all-NBA third team.
They weren't in their primes in any sense but they were still stars.
If we weren't a superteam that year, I'd say the term is meaningless. |
I would say the Cavs and Warriors have moved the needle to what a superteam is. Lebron's previous team the Heat was a "superteam" as well. We have superstars all in their primes joining together to win a ring.
Last edited by lakersken80 on Sun May 28, 2017 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. |
Incorrect. Love couldn't stay on the floor because he's a bad defender. He might only see 20-25mpg this year again. Regardless, the amount of stars or great players on a team isn't a big deal when the other team (who just broke the win record) also has 3 superstars. Try objectively looking at context. |
Okay so then diminish the Cavs glory for coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team because Curry played awful and Klay was on and off. Clearly they weren't a super team, right?
This kind of post-factum rationalization has you looking golden 10 out of 10 times. Hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe you forgot all the talk when Lebron joined Cleveland how its championship or bust for them as the new superteam. You could argue then that the Heat teams weren't "super" because Bosh was relegated to being a simple stretch 4 at the end.
And who is the 3rd superstar in GS? Klay? |
I just said Love shouldn't be considered part of an unstoppable big 3 when he only plays 26.5 mpg. His defense was a massive liability. That's not somehting that (bleep) suddenly came about because he wasn't playing hard enough, it's just how it is. Klay and Steph underwhelming had nothing to do with massive unavoidable liabilities like slow feet and below average rim protection.
Draymond or Klay. Either or |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10657
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
The year before he joined us, Payton was an all-star who put up 20-4-8.
Malone put up 21-8-5 the year before he joined us. He just missed out on making the all-NBA third team.
They weren't in their primes in any sense but they were still stars.
If we weren't a superteam that year, I'd say the term is meaningless. |
That 2004 team was definitely a super team, but they didn't have the luxury of having a year or two to develop synergy because Payton and Malone were so old and the chemistry wasn't great to start with. But undeniably a superteam |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
The year before he joined us, Payton was an all-star who put up 20-4-8.
Malone put up 21-8-5 the year before he joined us. He just missed out on making the all-NBA third team.
They weren't in their primes in any sense but they were still stars.
If we weren't a superteam that year, I'd say the term is meaningless. |
Kyrie and Love were obviously superstar top 10 players though as their previous campaigns 100% prove. |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10657
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| manofboy wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. |
Incorrect. Love couldn't stay on the floor because he's a bad defender. He might only see 20-25mpg this year again. Regardless, the amount of stars or great players on a team isn't a big deal when the other team (who just broke the win record) also has 3 superstars. Try objectively looking at context. |
Okay so then diminish the Cavs glory for coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team because Curry played awful and Klay was on and off. Clearly they weren't a super team, right?
This kind of post-factum rationalization has you looking golden 10 out of 10 times. Hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe you forgot all the talk when Lebron joined Cleveland how its championship or bust for them as the new superteam. You could argue then that the Heat teams weren't "super" because Bosh was relegated to being a simple stretch 4 at the end.
And who is the 3rd superstar in GS? Klay? |
I just said Love shouldn't be considered part of an unstoppable big 3 when he only plays 26.5 mpg. His defense was a massive liability. That's not somehting that (bleep) suddenly came about because he wasn't playing hard enough, it's just how it is. Klay and Steph underwhelming had nothing to do with massive unavoidable liabilities like slow feet and below average rim protection.
Draymond or Klay. Either or |
Lots of stars are huge defensive liabilities, dude. That just speaks to Golden State's ability to exploit that weakness.
Neither Klay nor Draymond are superstars in my book, and if anything, Lebron + Kyrie > Curry + Durant. The question is whether Golden State's 4-9 guys can run their stuff against Cleveland's 4-9 defense. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | levon wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Only true superteams are ones with the superstars in their primes. Cavs and Warriors are one. I don't think the Shaq-Kobe-Payton-Malone were because it was Shaq and Kobe in their primes and Payton and Malone were at the end of their careers. |
Kevin Love played 26mpg in the finals and scored 10ppg. Knock away though, whatever fits your narrative and whatever shots you can possibly come up with to attempt to rip LeBron |
Their final production doesn't matter. It is what their potential is. You know Love is capable of more. We've seen Klay hit slumps. Same with Curry. |
Incorrect. Love couldn't stay on the floor because he's a bad defender. He might only see 20-25mpg this year again. Regardless, the amount of stars or great players on a team isn't a big deal when the other team (who just broke the win record) also has 3 superstars. Try objectively looking at context. |
Okay so then diminish the Cavs glory for coming back 3-1 against a 73 win team because Curry played awful and Klay was on and off. Clearly they weren't a super team, right?
This kind of post-factum rationalization has you looking golden 10 out of 10 times. Hindsight is always 20/20. Maybe you forgot all the talk when Lebron joined Cleveland how its championship or bust for them as the new superteam. You could argue then that the Heat teams weren't "super" because Bosh was relegated to being a simple stretch 4 at the end.
And who is the 3rd superstar in GS? Klay? |
I just said Love shouldn't be considered part of an unstoppable big 3 when he only plays 26.5 mpg. His defense was a massive liability. That's not somehting that (bleep) suddenly came about because he wasn't playing hard enough, it's just how it is. Klay and Steph underwhelming had nothing to do with massive unavoidable liabilities like slow feet and below average rim protection.
Draymond or Klay. Either or |
Lots of stars are huge defensive liabilities, dude. That just speaks to Golden State's ability to exploit that weakness.
Neither Klay nor Draymond are superstars in my book, and if anything, Lebron + Kyrie > Curry + Durant. The question is whether Golden State's 4-9 guys can run their stuff against Cleveland's 4-9 defense. |
Name some players who you would consider superteam material who can only play 25mpg in the finals and only put up 10ppg.
Wait, are you actually trying to claim that the CURRENT iterations of these teams are fairly matched? A 73 win team added Kevin Durant, you dullard. I'm done wasting my time with you now.
Last edited by manofboy on Sun May 28, 2017 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PRLakeShow
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Did manofboy create an account here just to defend LeBron? Someone has to be really bored to make an account on a Lakers forum and not even talk about Laker topics. |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38792
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Probably the same Cavs poster who came around this time last year to gloat and then disappeared just as fast.... |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| IceInMyVeins wrote: | | Did manofboy create an account here just to defend LeBron? Someone has to be really bored to make an account on a Lakers forum and not even talk about Laker topics. |
I wouldn't be surprised if he is a regular poster who just started a second account. I've actually seen people do that here just to give themselves someone to argue against. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Probably the same Cavs poster who came around this time last year to gloat and then disappeared just as fast.... |
I see you stopped responding to me lol. That's probably best. Just live in your echo chamber |
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PRLakeShow
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Probably the same Cavs poster who came around this time last year to gloat and then disappeared just as fast.... |
I see you stopped responding to me lol. That's probably best. Just live in your echo chamber |
We got a tough guy here. Beware people. |
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| IceInMyVeins wrote: | | Did manofboy create an account here just to defend LeBron? Someone has to be really bored to make an account on a Lakers forum and not even talk about Laker topics. |
When he stated Kobe only averaged 15 in the Indy Finals for the Lakers to win it all,he is definitely not a Laker fan. Even a casual Laker fan can tell how Kobe and his epic game 7 performance saved us from the Portland series. |
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manofboy
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 May 2017
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| IceInMyVeins wrote: | | manofboy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Probably the same Cavs poster who came around this time last year to gloat and then disappeared just as fast.... |
I see you stopped responding to me lol. That's probably best. Just live in your echo chamber |
We got a tough guy here. Beware people. |
How am I acting tough? I'm saying he's just gonna keep stumbling over his own logic. So it's probably best to act like my opinions or the things I say are meaningless |
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