NBA Finals Game 4 Fix? (2017)
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Do you believe Game 4 was fixed?
Yes
44%
 44%  [ 24 ]
No
55%
 55%  [ 30 ]
Total Votes : 54

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H1st
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: NBA Finals Game 4 Fix? (2017)

Watching the game, I've never seen it so obvious; the fix was in.

I usually do subscribe to Professional Sports' fixes, perhaps due to my own rose colored lenses. Especially being a Laker fan with one of the more infamous *alleged* "fixes" being in our favor, but last night's game was a jaw dropper.

With the talk of LeBron being tired at the end of games 1-3, 13 personal fouls and 22 free throw attempts in the first quarter seems like more than enough game stoppage (plus points) to remedy that.

In addition to that, I'm partially triggered due to all the "MJ/LeBron" talk; ignoring that Kobe ever existed.

I scowled the youtube for clips and found one.
Lets discuss.

What did you see?



https://youtu.be/TPH5TeaOSM4?t=22s
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject:

Fixed as in a round table meeting with the refs involved and a mandate from Dr. Evil? There would be many more whistle blowers by now, not just one rogue dude, forgot his name, Tim Donut something.

The NBA doesn't need to directly fix games, they can let psychology do it for them. I don't believe the refs get any orders or mandate from their bosses, but subconsciously, they know Cleveland is down 0-3, and they know they're in Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject:

^Tim Donaghy. He's still out there, says that the assigned refs for Game 5 will be shown plays from the last game and instructed on what to look out for in the next game, but concedes GSW's talent will likely overcome any plans to prolong the series.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Fixed as in a round table meeting with the refs involved and a mandate from Dr. Evil? There would be many more whistle blowers by now, not just one rogue dude, forgot his name, Tim Donut something.

The NBA doesn't need to directly fix games, they can let psychology do it for them. I don't believe the refs get any orders or mandate from their bosses, but subconsciously, they know Cleveland is down 0-3, and they know they're in Cleveland.


Make sense; I can understand that logic.
Conversely I understand that a sweep isn't good for business. And besides that, as a basketball fan as we all are, game 4 looked bad - conspiracy theory aside.

In a vacuum, 13 fouls and 22 free throws for the home team in a big game down 0-3 doesn't have good aesthetics.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:04 am    Post subject:

I voted no because i don't think there was a single conversation or instruction.

But i do think they allowed the cav's enough calls to take/retain the advantage.

I also thought i don't watch enough cav's games and maybe they always let lebron bodycheck people.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
I voted no because i don't think there was a single conversation or instruction.

But i do think they allowed the cav's enough calls to take/retain the advantage.

I also thought i don't watch enough cav's games and maybe they always let lebron bodycheck people.


All good points.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject:

When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).


I don't recall the exact # of wins that was cited, but it was posted that The Cavs have won something like 11 straight with this lead official. Regardless, unless the magnets are real, they can't make the Cavs shoot 70% from three. It was 24-11 before any questionable calls were made.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:36 am    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).


I don't recall the exact # of wins that was cited, but it was posted that The Cavs have won something like 11 straight with this lead official. Regardless, unless the magnets are real, they can't make the Cavs shoot 70% from three. It was 24-11 before any questionable calls were made.


Wow. Interesting
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:49 am    Post subject:

Basketball is one of the hardest sports to officiate. In some games the players cant touch eachother and others where its almost streetball.

Refs have a lot of power to call a game how they want. I could easily see how a ref could change the outcome of a game.

I think the NBA doesnt try to influence games. Lots of money on the nba and the league tries to keep their reputation clean and honest not to have a scandal ruin the league

I do think there has been fixed games like in all sports. Its only most scandales are done by a player or a coach or a ref but not by the nba commissioner.

Also the home court team gets the calls.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:04 am    Post subject:

H1st wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).


I don't recall the exact # of wins that was cited, but it was posted that The Cavs have won something like 11 straight with this lead official. Regardless, unless the magnets are real, they can't make the Cavs shoot 70% from three. It was 24-11 before any questionable calls were made.


Wow. Interesting



https://twitter.com/NBARefStats/status/873330994878623744
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject:

Nah, homecourt built in advantages, nothing new
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Nah, homecourt built in advantages, nothing new


AGREED!
I have no dog in this fight and don't care one way or the other.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
H1st wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).


I don't recall the exact # of wins that was cited, but it was posted that The Cavs have won something like 11 straight with this lead official. Regardless, unless the magnets are real, they can't make the Cavs shoot 70% from three. It was 24-11 before any questionable calls were made.


Wow. Interesting



https://twitter.com/NBARefStats/status/873330994878623744


Makes me interested in the gamut of refs and the record of teams with certain lead refs.


pio2u wrote:


AGREED!
I have no dog in this fight and don't care one way or the other.


You should. As a Laker fan you should be wary in the media's interest on covering up Kobe's career w/ Lbj's. Many are saying Lbj has "already passed" someone with more rings, 3rd in all time points and an over all better skill set.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject:

So far a 50/50 split is interesting enough. (12 to 12)
Even to most of us detached Laker fans.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject:

No here as well, but my perspective may not be the most popular.

What do I mean by that? Well already folks were comparing this game to the "travesty" that was the infamous 2002 game 6 vs the kings and how the lakers outshot the kings at the FT line 27-9 or some such in the 4th (as an aside the end tally had the lakers I think shoot like 11 more than the kings over the entire game, e.g. 34Ft to 23 for the kings). This was the game Ralph Nadar felt the need to go public about.

But what was conveniently left out from that narrative and overlooked? What happened in game 5 at sac-of-potatoes. Kings shot around 10 more FT than the lakers as a team. Shaq was called for ridiculous fouls as floppy divac did his thing and Shaq was given 6 fouls and of course had to leave the game as a result...meanwhile despite the fact he was probably fouled at least 20 or 30 times in that game in the most obvious manner he was given only 1...just 1...ft. And if that wasn't enough, I think that's the game the kings were allowed to flatten fish on a screen to end the game for an open jumper.

Not a peep about game as being "fixed" or "one of the worst ever" for officiating.

So after that you think I felt some damn good vindication when the Shaq etc finally were given some calls? Absolutely. Was it "fixed?" No idea but the lakers had suffered in my perception disparate treatment for 7 quarters and was fine with the scales being balanced.

TL;DR version: nothing to see here. Move along.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

Nope. Home cooking was in effect but the Cavs just wanted it more.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject:

H1st wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
H1st wrote:
dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
When you saw the roster of referees before the game, you already knew something was about to happen (I think Laker Lanny called it out in the game thread). I don't think they actually tell the referees what to do, but as has been pointed out, the selection of referees make a difference (e.g. statistical biases, home vs. away predilections, etc.).


I don't recall the exact # of wins that was cited, but it was posted that The Cavs have won something like 11 straight with this lead official. Regardless, unless the magnets are real, they can't make the Cavs shoot 70% from three. It was 24-11 before any questionable calls were made.


Wow. Interesting



https://twitter.com/NBARefStats/status/873330994878623744


Makes me interested in the gamut of refs and the record of teams with certain lead refs.


pio2u wrote:


AGREED!
I have no dog in this fight and don't care one way or the other.


You should. As a Laker fan you should be wary in the media's interest on covering up Kobe's career w/ Lbj's. Many are saying Lbj has "already passed" someone with more rings, 3rd in all time points and an over all better skill set.



No big deal. People believe what they want to believe. Kobe will always be one of my all-time favorites. Media has no control over that.

PS: I'm glad GSW didn't break our playoff record.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject:

I do not think it is fixed. But the assignments are important. Certain refs have tenancies and ways they call a game. Some may let more contact go while others less. Some give more benefit to an aggressive defender or player driving the lane.

So IMO different games can be called differently depending on who is officiating.

Just my impression but IMO the Warriors have been getting the benefit of a lot of calls or no-calls throughout the three games. They have been allowed much more contact on defense. Some great plays, some mystifying "how did not that not get called" steals.

Some of the inconsistency on calls has been comical. Curry doing his highlight reel dribbling exhibition against Lebron was awesome except for the fact that he only got around Lebron when he double dribbled and Lebron closed the gap to contest the "expected" jumper. Or Durant getting the questionable flagrant foul on a draive but Green has two different plays that deserved flagrants. Still puzzled with Pechulia's obvious intentional hit to the jewels not getting a call. Even after replay!

Overall my impression is that Lebron has somehow entered the "Kobe Zone" with the refs. He gets repeatedly manhandled and whistles he got just a few short years ago have not come his way. Maybe not "fixed" but the NBA certainly has its favorites. The Warriors are it this year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

Ya, the refs were killing it from 3.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject:

Fixed?

Exactly how do the refs engineer an NBA record setting performance from 3-point range?

Cmon guys, let's not be THAT fan base.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject:

I think the Cavs would have won anyways even if the officiating was impartial because they were just shooting lights out from 3. But, some of the calls in the first half were questionable
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject:

sound like queens or clippers fans...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject:

I'd say no.

Curry, Klay, and Dray played like trash.

GSW got more freethrows.

Dray was saved from ejection.

LeBron and Kyrie both played on another level.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject:

Something weird was up, call it an anomaly, call it rigged, or the stars aligned to make it so the Cavaliers had that absurd first half. Personally I think the refs were terrible in that game for whatever reason.
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