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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
With Deng making half of Lebron’s salary, perhaps the Cavs would dip under the lux tax ? Combined with moving Love ?

Haven’t run the numbers, but if so, trading Lebron would make sense for Gilbert and he avoids being the bad guy if Lebron walks as a FA and blames Gilbert’s incompetence as the reason.


Yes, they would get under the tax if they dumped what would amount to about $41MM in salary for next season.
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject:

What we're not hearing is the back story...

LeBron told Gilbert back in 2014 that LeBron would come back in one condition, that after LeBron brings a championship to the Cavs, if LeBron wanted to leave, Gilbert would have to trade Lebron to any team LeBron wanted.

Would be crazy if true
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:20 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
What we're not hearing is the back story...

LeBron told Gilbert back in 2014 that LeBron would come back in one condition, that after LeBron brings a championship to the Cavs, if LeBron wanted to leave, Gilbert would have to trade Lebron to any team LeBron wanted.

Would be crazy if true


That's actually not an outlandish theory. In any case, once the Cavs made the Kyrie trade, which clearly worsened them, and got the Nets' pick as a result of that trade, it telegraphed their plans going forward. ESPECIALLY when they didn't void the trade even after major issues came up with IT's hip in their physical. They wanted that pick.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject:

LakersKobeBrynt8 wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AIR305/status/1011096472857739270

Quote:
LeBron to Lakers pretty much a done deal (Via @Manny_Navarro)


Miami Herald reporter since ‘95 says he’s hearing it’s a done deal, everyone is LBJ’s camp is moving to LA already/looking for houses. (Keep in mind LBJ was in Miami this weekend for his son’s games.)

Maybe most interesting, he’s hearing it’ll be a sign and trade, so just like CP3 last year we could possibly hear something this week prior to July 1st (I.e. the sign and trade could be agreed to first and announced, but not made official until July 6th.)


The details doesn’t seem to fit, he said LeBron would opt-in but if LeBron wants the max he would opt-out and re-sign for a S&T.

Anyway this is what Heisler wrote yesterday regarding Cleveland wanting a S&T:

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/06/23/heisler-everyones-gearing-up-for-big-lebron-james-derby-including-lebron/

Quote:
Here’s how it looks.

Everything starts with what James wants. Opinons abound. With the Cavs reportedly intent on getting something and willing to take salary, half the league can create enough room to sign Bron as a free agent.

Whoever gets LeBron is turning over the franchise to him. Happily, he’s already hard at work on behalf of whoever it turns out to be!

If it’s the Lakers, a prospect or two would be ticketed to Cleveland… with Lonzo Ball in special peril because with Bron accustomed to assuming his playmaker role.

The possibility reached the sensitive ears of … you know who … Lavar Ball, who railed, “It’ll be the worst move they ever made.”

Yeah, Lonzo for LeBron. Who would want that?

Happily, Cleveland is warmer than Lithaniana, where LaVar and sons spent the winter, although, like the Lakers, Vytautas Prienai wouldn’t let him take over their team, either.

Unfortunately for those of us yearning for the end of LaVar’s Laker career, the Cavs, who must be aware they can get Lonzo, used their No. 8 pick for Alabama point guard Collin Sexton, whom they surely regard more highly after Lonzo’s struggles as a rookie.

Lonzo probably stays, and, if James comes, gets to handle the ball when Bron kicks it to him on the weak side … but had better start knocking down those jumpers — in the exhibition season — or the Lakers will find a better shooter (assuming Bron doesn’t already have one in mind.)


The Lonzo bit sounds speculatory, but the Cavs “reportedly” open to take salary back for something in return....
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
epak wrote:
What we're not hearing is the back story...

LeBron told Gilbert back in 2014 that LeBron would come back in one condition, that after LeBron brings a championship to the Cavs, if LeBron wanted to leave, Gilbert would have to trade Lebron to any team LeBron wanted.

Would be crazy if true


That's actually not an outlandish theory. In any case, once the Cavs made the Kyrie trade, which clearly worsened them, and got the Nets' pick as a result of that trade, it telegraphed their plans going forward. ESPECIALLY when they didn't void the trade even after major issues came up with IT's hip in their physical. They wanted that pick.


Here's the 2nd part...

Kyrie finds out about the backdoor deal by LeBron and Gilbert.
He knows the Cavs are going to suck again when lebron leaves.
Kyrie asks for a trade in advance.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:28 pm    Post subject:

If LeBron leaves Cleveland they're immediately a rebuilding situation. It makes sense for them to take the assets to take on Deng's deal. Just have to stay under the tax.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
It doesn’t say he’s calling to see which players want to play with him in LA though.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
LakersKobeBrynt8 wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AIR305/status/1011096472857739270

Quote:
LeBron to Lakers pretty much a done deal (Via @Manny_Navarro)


Miami Herald reporter since ‘95 says he’s hearing it’s a done deal, everyone is LBJ’s camp is moving to LA already/looking for houses. (Keep in mind LBJ was in Miami this weekend for his son’s games.)

Maybe most interesting, he’s hearing it’ll be a sign and trade, so just like CP3 last year we could possibly hear something this week prior to July 1st (I.e. the sign and trade could be agreed to first and announced, but not made official until July 6th.)


The details doesn’t seem to fit, he said LeBron would opt-in but if LeBron wants the max he would opt-out and re-sign for a S&T.

Anyway this is what Heisler wrote yesterday regarding Cleveland wanting a S&T:

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/06/23/heisler-everyones-gearing-up-for-big-lebron-james-derby-including-lebron/

Quote:
Here’s how it looks.

Everything starts with what James wants. Opinons abound. With the Cavs reportedly intent on getting something and willing to take salary, half the league can create enough room to sign Bron as a free agent.

Whoever gets LeBron is turning over the franchise to him. Happily, he’s already hard at work on behalf of whoever it turns out to be!

If it’s the Lakers, a prospect or two would be ticketed to Cleveland… with Lonzo Ball in special peril because with Bron accustomed to assuming his playmaker role.

The possibility reached the sensitive ears of … you know who … Lavar Ball, who railed, “It’ll be the worst move they ever made.”

Yeah, Lonzo for LeBron. Who would want that?

Happily, Cleveland is warmer than Lithaniana, where LaVar and sons spent the winter, although, like the Lakers, Vytautas Prienai wouldn’t let him take over their team, either.

Unfortunately for those of us yearning for the end of LaVar’s Laker career, the Cavs, who must be aware they can get Lonzo, used their No. 8 pick for Alabama point guard Collin Sexton, whom they surely regard more highly after Lonzo’s struggles as a rookie.

Lonzo probably stays, and, if James comes, gets to handle the ball when Bron kicks it to him on the weak side … but had better start knocking down those jumpers — in the exhibition season — or the Lakers will find a better shooter (assuming Bron doesn’t already have one in mind.)


The Lonzo bit sounds speculatory, but the Cavs “reportedly” open to take salary back for something in return....


Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Right now I have more confidence in LeBron coming than I do Paul George


agree...not sure if mentioned, but I read this weekend that one of his homes in Brentwood has been getting heavily fortified with security and final touches in recent weeks. Definitely feels like the smoke is blowing strongly in the Lebron to LA direction....while the PG smoke is more undetectable if not slightly towards OKC. I just really hope we do not move many young pieces for non-elite vets.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.


I know we disagree....actually most of LG disagrees with me on this....but I think Ball is a terrible fit with Lebron. If we could somehow move off of Deng's salary by including Ball.....I think it would be smart if Lebron is coming....but as the article says, after the draft, Ball in Cleveland makes even less sense.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
32 wrote:
Right now I have more confidence in LeBron coming than I do Paul George


agree...not sure if mentioned, but I read this weekend that one of his homes in Brentwood has been getting heavily fortified with security and final touches in recent weeks. Definitely feels like the smoke is blowing strongly in the Lebron to LA direction....while the PG smoke is more undetectable if not slightly towards OKC. I just really hope we do not move many young pieces for non-elite vets.


Lmao!

It has already been reported that a home of his was being renovated. Homes get renovated. This is not news and it signifies nothing in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.


I know we disagree....actually most of LG disagrees with me on this....but I think Ball is a terrible fit with Lebron. If we could somehow move off of Deng's salary by including Ball.....I think it would be smart if Lebron is coming....but as the article says, after the draft, Ball in Cleveland makes even less sense.


I'm just saying that doing it in this particular fashion makes no sense. If your belief is that Lonzo won't work with LeBron, OK, trade him and add to your team somehow. Get an asset, whether that's another player or a draft pick. You don't move him just to dump Deng, and certainly not to Cleveland, not when can just sign LeBron outright. Not to mention that they just drafted Collin Sexton.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject:

JohnDoe wrote:
adkindo wrote:
32 wrote:
Right now I have more confidence in LeBron coming than I do Paul George


agree...not sure if mentioned, but I read this weekend that one of his homes in Brentwood has been getting heavily fortified with security and final touches in recent weeks. Definitely feels like the smoke is blowing strongly in the Lebron to LA direction....while the PG smoke is more undetectable if not slightly towards OKC. I just really hope we do not move many young pieces for non-elite vets.


Lmao!

It has already been reported that a home of his was being renovated. Homes get renovated. This is not news and it signifies nothing in my opinion.


damn, that made you laugh your ass off? You'd damn near would go into cardiac arrest at a Dave Chappelle show.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject:

Does Heisler even watch the Lakers/Lonzo play?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:50 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.


I know we disagree....actually most of LG disagrees with me on this....but I think Ball is a terrible fit with Lebron. If we could somehow move off of Deng's salary by including Ball.....I think it would be smart if Lebron is coming....but as the article says, after the draft, Ball in Cleveland makes even less sense.


I'm just saying that doing it in this particular fashion makes no sense. If your belief is that Lonzo won't work with LeBron, OK, trade him and add to your team somehow. Get an asset, whether that's another player or a draft pick. You don't move him just to dump Deng, and certainly not to Cleveland, not when can just sign LeBron outright. Not to mention that they just drafted Collin Sexton.


ok, but if he is what your using to move Deng, does it matter where? "IF" the FO for some reason agreed with me or Lebron wanted to move Ball....or whatever.....using him to move Deng seems like as good of a use as any?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Jsthornton7 wrote:
Does Heisler even watch the Lakers/Lonzo play?


I don't think that matters.
Our good friend Adkindo watches him, and still wants to trade him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:54 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.


I know we disagree....actually most of LG disagrees with me on this....but I think Ball is a terrible fit with Lebron. If we could somehow move off of Deng's salary by including Ball.....I think it would be smart if Lebron is coming....but as the article says, after the draft, Ball in Cleveland makes even less sense.


Bron's looking to play with another playmaker, someone with BBIQ, and we'd go and trade our best playmaker with BBIQ?

We don't want to get caught in playing LeBron's game. You want to take the load off him, not recreate the Cleveland Cavaliers. You don't do that by just surrounding him with a bunch of shooters and having him do all the playmaking. If that's the goal, which it should be, there's just no sense in trading a guy that can get you 7 assist with ease.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Heisler. Ugh. Why the hell would we trade Ball in a move like that? We can just sign the dude for virtually the same salary.


I know we disagree....actually most of LG disagrees with me on this....but I think Ball is a terrible fit with Lebron. If we could somehow move off of Deng's salary by including Ball.....I think it would be smart if Lebron is coming....but as the article says, after the draft, Ball in Cleveland makes even less sense.


I'm just saying that doing it in this particular fashion makes no sense. If your belief is that Lonzo won't work with LeBron, OK, trade him and add to your team somehow. Get an asset, whether that's another player or a draft pick. You don't move him just to dump Deng, and certainly not to Cleveland, not when can just sign LeBron outright. Not to mention that they just drafted Collin Sexton.


ok, but if he is what your using to move Deng, does it matter where? "IF" the FO for some reason agreed with me or Lebron wanted to move Ball....or whatever.....using him to move Deng seems like as good of a use as any?


Well, first off, I would be highly against using Ball or BI to dump Deng. But even beyond that, again, this is a situation where we can simply sign LeBron outright. We don't need a trade to be able to land him. There's simply no reason to land LeBron in this manner, not if it costs us a #2 pick, not when we can get him using nothing but cap space. If CLE wants a couple of 1st round picks and maybe some extra ancillary things, awesome. If not, we just sign him. They wouldn't have the leverage to demand one of our young core guys.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject:

JohnDoe wrote:
adkindo wrote:
32 wrote:
Right now I have more confidence in LeBron coming than I do Paul George


agree...not sure if mentioned, but I read this weekend that one of his homes in Brentwood has been getting heavily fortified with security and final touches in recent weeks. Definitely feels like the smoke is blowing strongly in the Lebron to LA direction....while the PG smoke is more undetectable if not slightly towards OKC. I just really hope we do not move many young pieces for non-elite vets.


Lmao!

It has already been reported that a home of his was being renovated. Homes get renovated. This is not news and it signifies nothing in my opinion.


23 mil dollar new construction homes don’t usually get renovated.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject:

When LeBron chose Miami back in 2010, the Cavs agreed to do a S&T to get something back in return.

https://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/10/1563131/lebron-james-sign-and-trade-miami-heat-cleveland-cavs-terms

Quote:
MIAMI GETS:

LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

CLEVELAND GETS:

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017

2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans

Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City

Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012

A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
Does Heisler even watch the Lakers/Lonzo play?


I don't think that matters.
Our good friend Adkindo watches him, and still wants to trade him.


not true at all....I would be very hesitant to move Ball....the only time I think I have really been 100% on board was for Kawhi. (Maybe I am forgetting another hypothetical)....and there are circumstances that I would consider....such as if Lebron came, and I can either get value in return or I really need to move Deng ASAP. In general, I am not a supporter of moving Ball.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
When LeBron chose Miami back in 2010, the Cavs agreed to do a S&T to get something back in return.

https://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/10/1563131/lebron-james-sign-and-trade-miami-heat-cleveland-cavs-terms

Quote:
MIAMI GETS:

LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

CLEVELAND GETS:

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017

2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans

Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City

Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012

A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.


his value is definitely lower now in my opinion....Miami was thinking they would have Lebron for a decade. Similar to when we got Shaq or if Jordan was on the market in 1988.


Last edited by adkindo on Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
JohnDoe wrote:
adkindo wrote:
32 wrote:
Right now I have more confidence in LeBron coming than I do Paul George


agree...not sure if mentioned, but I read this weekend that one of his homes in Brentwood has been getting heavily fortified with security and final touches in recent weeks. Definitely feels like the smoke is blowing strongly in the Lebron to LA direction....while the PG smoke is more undetectable if not slightly towards OKC. I just really hope we do not move many young pieces for non-elite vets.


Lmao!

It has already been reported that a home of his was being renovated. Homes get renovated. This is not news and it signifies nothing in my opinion.


damn, that made you laugh your ass off? You'd damn near would go into cardiac arrest at a Dave Chappelle show.


Not a fan of Dave.

Cheers brother! Fingers crossed about some of news being reported. Go Lakers!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:06 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
When LeBron chose Miami back in 2010, the Cavs agreed to do a S&T to get something back in return.

https://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/10/1563131/lebron-james-sign-and-trade-miami-heat-cleveland-cavs-terms

Quote:
MIAMI GETS:

LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

CLEVELAND GETS:

Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017

2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans

Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City

Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012

A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.


his value is definitely lower now in my opinion....Miami was thinking they would have Lebron for a decade. Similar to when we got Shaq or if Jordan was on the market in 1988.


Good thing is LeBron has all the leverage.

If Cavs don’t want to make a trade to the Lakers then LeBron just signs with us anyway. If the Cavs want some picks in return rather than lose him for nothing, trade with us. Deng + whatever picks they want if that works, add Zubac who is Larry Nance’s son, who knows.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject:

ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
I mean, wouldn't Philly be able to give *way* better assets than the Lakers could in a sign-and-trade?

I don't see the benefit in losing core players to get someone the Lakers could just sign outright either this year or next year.


The Cavs don't control where he goes in a sign and trade or opt-in and trade. LeBron does.
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