The title of the article should be 'Why so many Kobe stans reject the media-driven "King James" narrative' because if you're a LAKERS fan, you support a player of Lebron's caliber coming here. LAKERS FANS are all about getting players who are about helping the franchise win a championship. KOBE STANS are all about protecting Kobe's legacy.
Cowherd said it best:
This is exactly the problem. It is not about "Kobe Stans". That is just the go to argument. Try and look a little deeper than that.
And Cowherd has been horrible for some time now.
No, it really is as simple as it sounds. If you're a fan of the team, you support whatever moves the team makes to win a championship. In this case, they signed one of the top 5 players of all time. Nobody is rejecting anything. 99% of the posters here are thrilled with the signing, and Laker fans(not media people) are lining up to buy his jerseys:
The only people that are rejecting the move are the 1% Kobe stans. That's about it. The same type of people that deface his murals.
Flat out disagree that we have to support whatever moves the team makes. Some of the worst things that have happened in history are due to people blindly following their government, superior, etc. Same applies here.
Oh and you have 0 evidence that the people defacing his murals were Kobe stans.
Some people feel that the Lakers shouldn't have signed Lebron because his age makes him a bad fit with the likely progression of the young players on the team. That's a reasonable point of view to me. I knew Magic would jump to sign him if he had a chance, though.
And once the Lakers made their decision and signed him, I don't see the point in continuing to debate it. He's here. Let's see what happens.
That said, if someone has a great old time complaining and whining about it, that's cool with me, as long as I don't have to listen. I don't support vandalism, so I don't support defacing murals; but if someone wants to put up an anti-Lebron mural, that's cool with me. I like debate; I just don't see the point in getting worked up over a sunk cost.
The title of the article should be 'Why so many Kobe stans reject the media-driven "King James" narrative' because if you're a LAKERS fan, you support a player of Lebron's caliber coming here. LAKERS FANS are all about getting players who are about helping the franchise win a championship. KOBE STANS are all about protecting Kobe's legacy.
Cowherd said it best:
This is exactly the problem. It is not about "Kobe Stans". That is just the go to argument. Try and look a little deeper than that.
And Cowherd has been horrible for some time now.
No, it really is as simple as it sounds. If you're a fan of the team, you support whatever moves the team makes to win a championship. In this case, they signed one of the top 5 players of all time. Nobody is rejecting anything. 99% of the posters here are thrilled with the signing, and Laker fans(not media people) are lining up to buy his jerseys:
The only people that are rejecting the move are the 1% Kobe stans. That's about it. The same type of people that deface his murals.
Flat out disagree that we have to support whatever moves the team makes. Some of the worst things that have happened in history are due to people blindly following their government, superior, etc. Same applies here.
Oh and you have 0 evidence that the people defacing his murals were Kobe stans.
Some people feel that the Lakers shouldn't have signed Lebron because his age makes him a bad fit with the likely progression of the young players on the team. That's a reasonable point of view to me. I knew Magic would jump to sign him if he had a chance, though.
And once the Lakers made their decision and signed him, I don't see the point in continuing to debate it. He's here. Let's see what happens.
That said, if someone has a great old time complaining and whining about it, that's cool with me, as long as I don't have to listen. I don't support vandalism, so I don't support defacing murals; but if someone wants to put up an anti-Lebron mural, that's cool with me. I like debate; I just don't see the point in getting worked up over a sunk cost.
People are desperate to have things to talk about. This is the downtime of the NBA, nothing is happening. That's why articles like this one come out.
The title of the article should be 'Why so many Kobe stans reject the media-driven "King James" narrative' because if you're a LAKERS fan, you support a player of Lebron's caliber coming here. LAKERS FANS are all about getting players who are about helping the franchise win a championship. KOBE STANS are all about protecting Kobe's legacy.
Cowherd said it best:
This is exactly the problem. It is not about "Kobe Stans". That is just the go to argument. Try and look a little deeper than that.
And Cowherd has been horrible for some time now.
No, it really is as simple as it sounds. If you're a fan of the team, you support whatever moves the team makes to win a championship. In this case, they signed one of the top 5 players of all time. Nobody is rejecting anything. 99% of the posters here are thrilled with the signing, and Laker fans(not media people) are lining up to buy his jerseys:
The only people that are rejecting the move are the 1% Kobe stans. That's about it. The same type of people that deface his murals.
Flat out disagree that we have to support whatever moves the team makes. Some of the worst things that have happened in history are due to people blindly following their government, superior, etc. Same applies here.
Oh and you have 0 evidence that the people defacing his murals were Kobe stans.
Some people feel that the Lakers shouldn't have signed Lebron because his age makes him a bad fit with the likely progression of the young players on the team. That's a reasonable point of view to me. I knew Magic would jump to sign him if he had a chance, though.
And once the Lakers made their decision and signed him, I don't see the point in continuing to debate it. He's here. Let's see what happens.
That said, if someone has a great old time complaining and whining about it, that's cool with me, as long as I don't have to listen. I don't support vandalism, so I don't support defacing murals; but if someone wants to put up an anti-Lebron mural, that's cool with me. I like debate; I just don't see the point in getting worked up over a sunk cost.
People are desperate to have things to talk about. This is the downtime of the NBA, nothing is happening. That's why articles like this one come out.
Sure, that's part of it. But Lebron also just pushes some people's buttons, and articles/blogs/threads with this kind of generic rant appear throughout the season, every season.
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12160 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:03 pm Post subject:
People not welcoming the greatest player on the plant to this team are just idiots, plain and simple. This is a different narrative for him at this point in his career and the rest of the team, especially the young guys, will thrive from it.
People or so-called fans that make this about Kobe v/s Lebron, need to focus on other things in life. It's not about that. Both have cemented legacy and there is nothing Lebron needs to prove in his career to be likely top 5 all time. He is welcome here, anyone that doesn't welcome him, we'll go root for the lowly Clippers.
It's going to be a great season and seasons to come. Thanks Magic and thanks Lebron.
People not welcoming the greatest player on the plant to this team are just idiots, plain and simple. This is a different narrative for him at this point in his career and the rest of the team, especially the young guys, will thrive from it.
People or so-called fans that make this about Kobe v/s Lebron, need to focus on other things in life. It's not about that. Both have cemented legacy and there is nothing Lebron needs to prove in his career to be likely top 5 all time. He is welcome here, anyone that doesn't welcome him, we'll go root for the lowly Clippers.
It's going to be a great season and seasons to come. Thanks Magic and thanks Lebron.
Anyone who is not excited about LeBron is foolish...
We identified the young players we felt like we can build around for the next 12 years, we cleared cap to get the best player in the NBA for the next 3 years, and we have cap space to sign another top 10 player next summer who's window is somewhere between LeBron's and the kids'.
Kobe is retied and he's not coming back. We lived and died for 20 years with him. It's time to turn the page. Sooner or later someone is going to come and eclipse all of them. Get used to it is met thinking.
_________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
People not welcoming the greatest player on the plant to this team are just idiots, plain and simple. This is a different narrative for him at this point in his career and the rest of the team, especially the young guys, will thrive from it.
People or so-called fans that make this about Kobe v/s Lebron, need to focus on other things in life. It's not about that. Both have cemented legacy and there is nothing Lebron needs to prove in his career to be likely top 5 all time. He is welcome here, anyone that doesn't welcome him, we'll go root for the lowly Clippers.
It's going to be a great season and seasons to come. Thanks Magic and thanks Lebron.
Good post anth2000, good to see you in positive spirits
People not welcoming the greatest player on the plant to this team are just idiots, plain and simple. This is a different narrative for him at this point in his career and the rest of the team, especially the young guys, will thrive from it.
People or so-called fans that make this about Kobe v/s Lebron, need to focus on other things in life. It's not about that. Both have cemented legacy and there is nothing Lebron needs to prove in his career to be likely top 5 all time. He is welcome here, anyone that doesn't welcome him, we'll go root for the lowly Clippers.
It's going to be a great season and seasons to come. Thanks Magic and thanks Lebron.
It’s about winning vs losing. If he doesn’t win, the city might not take too well to him over the years. If he does win mostly everyone will love him.
I was worried about him coming this whole past year because I didn't want our team to be paying out close to 40mil for a guy who would be a shell of himself. Reading about his routine, his commitment to his body and just watching his last playoffs, I'm less concerned now and am positive he will outplay his contract for the next 4 years.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
I'm ready to watch good, competitive basketball and see the youngsters grow as players and mesh as a team.
This Kobe fan welcomes LeBron with open arms.
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject:
george w kush wrote:
Please remove that bunk article from a no name site from the thread title. Not worthy of discussion here. It’s just one bloggers opinion.
I thought I accidentally clicked on the Lebron Piss and Moan thread. That blog post probably fits in better there. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
I don’t care who says what. I for one welcome Lebron to LA & the Lakeshow. Ramona is all hurt because Lebron hasn’t had a press conference, but that’s just the Laker Fan in her. If she looks at it from a common sense point of view, she’d realize why this move has been handled the way it’s been. You can’t overlook Lebron, showing up to Summer League in Lakers shorts, showing love to the young core (in person and on IG), working out at the facility, practicing in front of the young guys, taking pics in the Lakers gear, wearing Kobes, HGH arms 😝, etc.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:17 pm Post subject:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Please remove that bunk article from a no name site from the thread title. Not worthy of discussion here. It’s just one bloggers opinion.
I thought I accidentally clicked on the Lebron Piss and Moan thread. That blog post probably fits in better there.
The author is a poster here. Was trying to do him a solid as we would for most posters here. Gotta start somewhere. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
I'm ready to watch good, competitive basketball and see the youngsters grow as players and mesh as a team.
This Kobe fan welcomes LeBron with open arms.
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 18492 Location: The Garden Island
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject:
KobeIsTheOne wrote:
george w kush wrote:
KobeIsTheOne wrote:
george w kush wrote:
The title of the article should be 'Why so many Kobe stans reject the media-driven "King James" narrative' because if you're a LAKERS fan, you support a player of Lebron's caliber coming here. LAKERS FANS are all about getting players who are about helping the franchise win a championship. KOBE STANS are all about protecting Kobe's legacy.
Cowherd said it best:
This is exactly the problem. It is not about "Kobe Stans". That is just the go to argument. Try and look a little deeper than that.
And Cowherd has been horrible for some time now.
No, it really is as simple as it sounds. If you're a fan of the team, you support whatever moves the team makes to win a championship. In this case, they signed one of the top 5 players of all time. Nobody is rejecting anything. 99% of the posters here are thrilled with the signing, and Laker fans(not media people) are lining up to buy his jerseys:
The only people that are rejecting the move are Cavs fans and Kobe stans. That's about it.
I respectfully disagree.
And I have spoken with dozens, if not hundreds of fans, many season ticket holders, who also disagree.
There are legions of long time fans who sincerely feel that he doesn't deserve to be wearing the purple and gold for reasons that quite honestly have zero to do with any other player.
I've had season tickets since '95.
I know about 10 other season ticket holders.
Every single one of us is fired up that Lebron is here.
The idea that there are "legions" of long-time Laker fans who think that Lebron doesn't deserve to wear P+G is horse poop.
There might be a few bitter Kobe fans that are unhappy, but Laker fans are loving the fact that Lebron came here.
The title of the article should be 'Why so many Kobe stans reject the media-driven "King James" narrative' because if you're a LAKERS fan, you support a player of Lebron's caliber coming here. LAKERS FANS are all about getting players who are about helping the franchise win a championship. KOBE STANS are all about protecting Kobe's legacy.
Cowherd said it best:
This is exactly the problem. It is not about "Kobe Stans". That is just the go to argument. Try and look a little deeper than that.
And Cowherd has been horrible for some time now.
No, it really is as simple as it sounds. If you're a fan of the team, you support whatever moves the team makes to win a championship. In this case, they signed one of the top 5 players of all time. Nobody is rejecting anything. 99% of the posters here are thrilled with the signing, and Laker fans(not media people) are lining up to buy his jerseys:
The only people that are rejecting the move are Cavs fans and Kobe stans. That's about it.
I respectfully disagree.
And I have spoken with dozens, if not hundreds of fans, many season ticket holders, who also disagree.
There are legions of long time fans who sincerely feel that he doesn't deserve to be wearing the purple and gold for reasons that quite honestly have zero to do with any other player.
I've had season tickets since '95.
I know about 10 other season ticket holders.
Every single one of us is fired up that Lebron is here.
The idea that there are "legions" of long-time Laker fans who think that Lebron doesn't deserve to wear P+G is horse poop.
There might be a few bitter Kobe fans that are unhappy, but Laker fans are loving the fact that Lebron came here.
Yupe, the term “legions of season ticket holders” seems like a made up narrative to fit a agenda also to the poster (KobeIsTheOne) If Laker fans weren’t excited about LeBron’s arrival then why are so many people lining up to see the team play despite the fact that the ticket prices are higher?
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:31 pm Post subject: u
I wouldn't worry about all this hate. Remember when Kobe demanded a trade and he was bold the first game of the season? He won the fans over by the end of the game even though Lakers lost. Same thing will happen here. The moment Lebron gets his first dunk, ppl will be changing their minds
Magic would go on to nine NBA Finals appearances, and while winning 5 rings in the process, Bird won 3. By winning their head to head duals - on the court - Magic laid legitimate claim to being regarded as the best in the sport. However, it wasn’t long before Michael Jordan, despite having no rivalry equivalent to Johnson/Bird (or vice versa), would go on to 6 NBA Finals appearances. Though he would win all 6, it was 3 appearances fewer than Johnson, and many observers have noted that due to league expansion, the league’s concentration of talent was diluted during Jordan’s runs.
It didn’t seem to matter in the slightest. Johnson was in his final year before retirement when his Lakers met Jordan’s Bulls in the Finals in 1991. Well past the Showtime era, the team was constituted mostly of leftovers at that point, missing former team captain Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1987 defensive player of the year Michael Cooper, and perhaps most significantly, Head Coach Pat Riley, the architect of the Lakers 1980's dynastic run. That Jordan’s Bulls were competing against an overachieving Lakers squad didn’t ever enter the narrative, and even though the Lakers were, in 1991, a far cry from the championship teams of the 80's, the matchup was still sold as a “passing of the torch” between Johnson and Jordan.
You have a bias towards Laker players that is relatively obvious. Speaking of "laying the groundwork" for something, you laid the groundwork in the above portion of your article for exposing your own bias against LeBron. Notice how easy it was for you to contextualize that Finals loss for Magic by noting that the Lakers obviously weren't the same team by 1991, yet you don't contextualize any of LeBron's Finals losses later on in the article, as I'll demonstrate later.
Quote:
The Laker fan push back to accepting LeBron has a lot to do with the mainstream media force-feeding the idea that LeBron is unarguably "the best player on the planet" and is exacerbated when talking about his place among the all time greats, in recent years suddenly (and inexorably) in the discussion of perhaps being THE "greatest player of all time."
The mainstream media is not "force-feeding" LeBron's stake as the best player in the world. LeBron has been the consensus best player in the world for years, even prior to Kobe's retirement. That hasn't been force-fed by the media any more than it was force-fed that Jordan was the best player in the 90's. You're free to disagree on who the best player is or isn't, but please don't make a conspiracy out of it. LeBron has earned his current status. It's not some media fabrication.
Also, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that LeBron is one of the greatest players of all time, even though he's still playing. Did you not believe Magic was already an all-time great by 1991, or did you suddenly become convinced of that once he retired? Of course you didn't. That's going to be the case for every basketball legend. You don't suddenly realize they were great after they retire. Yes, LeBron is an all-time great. This is not disputable.
Quote:
All of this, despite having a 3-6 record in the Finals and having played his entire career in what has categorically been the weaker conference in the NBA. It is not - as many media pundits have claimed - stemming from an idea that Laker fans, Kobe fans, or a combination of both believe or feel that Kobe's legacy will be "threatened" by LeBron.
A 3-6 Finals record, you say? This is indeed factual, but tell me, Aaron, who was the second best player on that Cavs team in 2007? And whoever that player was, what were his averages that season? I'm openly challenging you to answer both of those questions. You have to be either intellectually dishonest, deceitful, or just plain ignorant to not acknowledge that that team had no business in the Finals. It was LeBron's brilliance that got them there. They lost because they were clearly outmatched by a loaded San Antonio Spurs team with multiple All-Stars. Why don't you contextualize that Finals loss for LeBron the way you did for Magic in 1991?
And while you're at it, please, I'm inviting you to also explain why you didn't bother to contextualize LeBron's Finals loss to GS in 2015. You know, when he lost both Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving to injury while GS was fully healthy? Why does it seem so easy for you to contextualize losses for guys who were Lakers, but not LeBron? Hmm...
Quote:
It's that once again, and in consecutive eras, the career of a Laker great who has done more to earn the mantle is being undermined by a player who has had - to this point - a career of lesser basketball accomplishment and distinction, by the most genuine of measurements.
I'm not sure what you were seeking to accomplish by writing this article, but saying stuff like this makes it very, very difficult to take your arguments seriously. These are LeBron's most notable accomplishments as of today:
3× NBA champion (2012, 2013, 2016)
3× NBA Finals MVP (2012, 2013, 2016)
4× NBA Most Valuable Player (2009, 2010, 2012, 2013)
14× NBA All-Star (2005–2018)
3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008, 2018)
12× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2004)
NBA scoring champion (2008)
2 x Olympic Gold Medalist (2008, 2012)
Unless injuries completely derail the remainder of his career, he'll eventually pass Kobe in points to move up to third all-time, and probably top five in assists as well. And yet, somehow, he's had "a career of lesser basketball accomplishment and distinction, by the most genuine of measurements" when compared to Kobe? Seriously? You're simply refusing to be rational, Aaron. Careful reasoning and balance are absent in your argumentative framework. You're being biased, not fair.
Quote:
Kobe, on the other hand, just in his own conference, had to first overcome a 15-point 4th quarter deficit in a Western Conference Finals Game 7 against a a loaded Portland team, the Duncan/Popovich Spurs dynasty repeatedly (both early and later in his career), as well as a offensively dominant Sacramento Kings squad. To be sure, Kobe prevented all of these teams from winning championships. The winner of the West was assuredly winning the title in almost all of those years. It is with must less certainty, that James can claim the same about the eastern conference victims that he ran through for the better part of the last decade.
Oh, goody; more subpar argumentation that's been soaked in Laker bias. Who ever could've seen this coming?!
Aaron, LeBron lead the Cavs back from a 3-2 deficit against the Spurs in the Finals (the same dynastic one you just exalted to enhance your pro-Kobe arguments) and a 3-1 deficit (which no team had ever done before) against the Warriors, who had won 73 games that year. Yes, Kobe and the Lakers did prevent several teams from winning championships, but so did LeBron and the teams he played on.
The Heat defeated the Pierce/Garnett/Allen led Celtics several times when LeBron was in Miami, as well as the Pacers and the Bulls. All three of those teams were defensive powerhouses at the time. And then when he returned to Cleveland, he crushed the hopes of teams like the Bulls (again), the Hawks, and the Raptors more than once. If it wasn't for LeBron, Dwayne Casey and DeMar DeRozan would still be in Toronto because they probably would've had at least two Finals appearances. The same could also be said of Boston and Indiana. You can argue all you want that the East is a weak conference, but those teams were elite. The weakness of the conference overall doesn't take anything away from how good those particular teams were. But they won't be remembered because LeBron continually blocked their path to championships, just as many great players did to other great teams in their respective eras, teams that also aren't remembered.
Quote:
Conference convenience aside, Bryant also made his mark on the team and the city by sticking with Los Angeles and the Lakers through difficult times. After a championship appearance drought following 2004 ended in 2008, Kobe and the Lakers won back to back championships, the second of which (and fifth title of Bryant's career) coming against the hated Boston Celtics and their Big 3 Hall of Famers. Those same Celtics were responsible for eliminating James from title contention on a near annual basis until Boston broke the team up.
That Celtic team didn't eliminate the Cavs on a "near annual basis." It happened twice (2008, 2010) and it's indisputable that the teams he played on were mediocre from a talent standpoint. There wasn't a single All-Star on either of those teams besides LeBron. The talent he played with in Miami was a lot more comparable to Boston's, and we know what happened then. The Celtics never beat the Heat once.
Quote:
Laker fans are not as easily swayed by statistics (which, without context, lose impact) or regular season success.
Hmm, I wonder why. Is it because they know that LeBron easily beats Kobe in those areas (higher scoring, rebound, and assist averages + more MVP awards)? Please don't pretend that if Kobe and LeBron switched career averages, you wouldn't be using Kobe's superior statistical averages as a baseball bat in every Kobe-LeBron debate.
Quote:
The more frequently that this idea is trumpeted - that the James/Bryant debate is "over", in favor of James - the greater the pushback (and lack of any LeBron embrace) will be from Laker fans.
This is just illogical. You aren't embracing LeBron because the media has declared that he's better than Kobe? That's...incredible. You're holding back on embracing him because of something that's completely out of his control. That is absurd.
Quote:
James calling himself the best player in the world doesn't help in this regard, and with LeBron now donning a Laker jersey, the debates and comparisons surrounding the two is renewed in a different light.
You completely lost me here. In what regard? What relationship does LeBron calling himself the best player in the league have with the Kobe debate?
Quote:
To many Laker fans, James' past success (and to perhaps a lesser extent, his failures) are irrelevant to embracing him now. What matters is what he does as a Laker. To be sure, the respect that he gets from these fans will have to be earned, not simply issued.
Here's where you're wrong (again), Aaron. LeBron does not need to earn anything from you or any of the fans who think the way you do. He's not going to go out there and play with the intention of earning your respect or approval. He has no idea who you are or that you even exist. You could get hit by a bus and die right there in the street (Christ forbid) without him ever knowing that you were sharing this planet with him. And that's just as true about me. He's chasing championships, not your approval. He doesn't need your approval. When he plays, he'll be doing it for himself, his family, the organization, and the fans who are actually ecstatic that one of the greatest players of all time has chosen to be a Laker. For some reason, fans who think like you have mistakenly been duped by your own pride into believing that you're more important than you really are. Whether he wins a ring or two in LA or not, your approval or disproval of him won't be something he loses sleep over. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
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