I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe. _________________
Last edited by Nash Vegas on Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
I gotta say, through the years of the Lakers getting good players, this one seems unreal, that’s why I don’t get the Anti-LeBron crap, 29 teams right now will throw a parade if they had LeBron.
I hope Kobe’s daughter one day marries Lebron’s son so the Crips/Bloods warfare between Lakers fans come to an end one day. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject:
pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
activeverb wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
governator wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Judah wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's so ironic, the last folks you'd expect to use that as an argument are people who are fans of the Lakers. No player has a worse Finals record than Jerry West, but Laker fans don't seem to hold that against him.
So if Jerry West was 8-1 in the Finals instead of 1-8 you don't think it would affect his all-time ranking and fans perception of him at all?
If West was 8-1 in the Finals people would definitely be putting him over Kobe as the 2nd greatest SG of all-time and would be viewed as the Bill Russell of perimeter players (a guy who would be on everyone's short list for GOAT because of the overwhelming amount of championship success that couldn't be ignored). And he would rank higher on the all-time Lakers list as well. It definitely matters...
I think the question wasn’t if Jerry West was 8-1 instead of 1-8, the question was would it have looked better if Jerry West was 1-0 and not make finals the other 8 times?
1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8
Again, this makes no sense to me. In the above scenario, West would only be "1-0" because you were pretending the 8 years he didn't get to the finals don't exist.
The reality is any year any player doesn't win a ring he lost; the only question is at what point he lost -- in the finals, in the conference finals, in the second round, in the first round, or in the regular season.
This is like Alice in Wonderland. It makes no sense.
Sure it doesnt "make sense", but thats the reality of the situation, and a reason why West isnt ranked as high as he should be
When he made it to the final stage, he lost more than he won, plain and simple
And it's a pretty inane reason.
Losing 8x in the 1st round of the playoffs is better than 8x in the Finals? Okay.
My point is, if your good enough to make it to the finals and consistently lose, thats not an accomplishment
Of course it is. Being the consistent 2nd best at anything in the world is pretty damn good. Thinking more highly of a guy who fails to make the finals than one who loses there isn't much of an accomplishment. If you're only going to count wins, at least be consistent.
When did I say that?
I get what your saying but I doubt Jerry is touting his 1-8 record
You said you'd be more impressed with 1-0 than 1-8, meaning you'd find it more of an accomplishment for him to lose at least one round earlier those 8 years. I know that sounds ridiculous. Because it is.
"1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8"
Where in that statement did I say losing in an earlier round is more of an accomplishment?
You are coming up with your own interpretations of what I said
Ok, you tell me what happened those other 8 years if they aren’t finals losses. In your preferred scenario. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's so ironic, the last folks you'd expect to use that as an argument are people who are fans of the Lakers. No player has a worse Finals record than Jerry West, but Laker fans don't seem to hold that against him.
So if Jerry West was 8-1 in the Finals instead of 1-8 you don't think it would affect his all-time ranking and fans perception of him at all?
If West was 8-1 in the Finals people would definitely be putting him over Kobe as the 2nd greatest SG of all-time and would be viewed as the Bill Russell of perimeter players (a guy who would be on everyone's short list for GOAT because of the overwhelming amount of championship success that couldn't be ignored). And he would rank higher on the all-time Lakers list as well. It definitely matters...
I think the question wasn’t if Jerry West was 8-1 instead of 1-8, the question was would it have looked better if Jerry West was 1-0 and not make finals the other 8 times?
1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8
Again, this makes no sense to me. In the above scenario, West would only be "1-0" because you were pretending the 8 years he didn't get to the finals don't exist.
The reality is any year any player doesn't win a ring he lost; the only question is at what point he lost -- in the finals, in the conference finals, in the second round, in the first round, or in the regular season.
This is like Alice in Wonderland. It makes no sense.
Sure it doesnt "make sense", but thats the reality of the situation, and a reason why West isnt ranked as high as he should be
When he made it to the final stage, he lost more than he won, plain and simple
And it's a pretty inane reason.
Losing 8x in the 1st round of the playoffs is better than 8x in the Finals? Okay.
My point is, if your good enough to make it to the finals and consistently lose, thats not an accomplishment
Of course it is. Being the consistent 2nd best at anything in the world is pretty damn good. Thinking more highly of a guy who fails to make the finals than one who loses there isn't much of an accomplishment. If you're only going to count wins, at least be consistent.
When did I say that?
I get what your saying but I doubt Jerry is touting his 1-8 record
You said you'd be more impressed with 1-0 than 1-8, meaning you'd find it more of an accomplishment for him to lose at least one round earlier those 8 years. I know that sounds ridiculous. Because it is.
"1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8"
Where in that statement did I say losing in an earlier round is more of an accomplishment?
You are coming up with your own interpretations of what I said
Ok, you tell me what happened those other 8 years if they aren’t finals losses. In your preferred scenario.
I already told you _________________ DISGUSTING:
Big Game James wrote:
I'm Kwame Brown and every one of my posts seem to be moved. I find this perplexing because I've never had a post move before!
LeBron’s 3-6 means that he won 3 gold medals and 6 silver medals.
In other words, 3-6 > 3-0, 3-1, etc.
Nash Vegas wrote:
diando wrote:
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Well if that is their logic then yes it’s true. _________________ Tacos
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's the Jordan effect!!
I always heard those arguments in any discussion of Magic vs Jordan. Magic made it to the finals 9 times. People always seem to ignore the fact that when you don't make it to the finals, you are worse than at least two teams who did.
We should come up with a weighted measurement based on if you are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th.
Something along that line. Jordan would end out like 5th best or something, Magic, Kareem and Horry would all beat him badly and Russell would destroy him. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:18 pm Post subject:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Lakers fans turned on Kareem. Lakers fans turned on Magic. Lakers fans turned on Shaq. And now Lakers fans have turned on Kobe. We really can't have nice things.
BS, Lakers fans haven't turned on any of these players. Shaq had his moments but I believe if Kobe and Shaq can forgive each other, we can forgive them too.
Bottom line is, if God was proven to be true beyond a shadow of doubt and he joined the Lakers and we won rings for 20 straight years, there would be yahoos who called themselves Lakers fans who would hate him. Welcome to Lakers world! _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:20 pm Post subject:
pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
activeverb wrote:
pkflyers wrote:
governator wrote:
Batguano wrote:
Judah wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's so ironic, the last folks you'd expect to use that as an argument are people who are fans of the Lakers. No player has a worse Finals record than Jerry West, but Laker fans don't seem to hold that against him.
So if Jerry West was 8-1 in the Finals instead of 1-8 you don't think it would affect his all-time ranking and fans perception of him at all?
If West was 8-1 in the Finals people would definitely be putting him over Kobe as the 2nd greatest SG of all-time and would be viewed as the Bill Russell of perimeter players (a guy who would be on everyone's short list for GOAT because of the overwhelming amount of championship success that couldn't be ignored). And he would rank higher on the all-time Lakers list as well. It definitely matters...
I think the question wasn’t if Jerry West was 8-1 instead of 1-8, the question was would it have looked better if Jerry West was 1-0 and not make finals the other 8 times?
1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8
Again, this makes no sense to me. In the above scenario, West would only be "1-0" because you were pretending the 8 years he didn't get to the finals don't exist.
The reality is any year any player doesn't win a ring he lost; the only question is at what point he lost -- in the finals, in the conference finals, in the second round, in the first round, or in the regular season.
This is like Alice in Wonderland. It makes no sense.
Sure it doesnt "make sense", but thats the reality of the situation, and a reason why West isnt ranked as high as he should be
When he made it to the final stage, he lost more than he won, plain and simple
And it's a pretty inane reason.
Losing 8x in the 1st round of the playoffs is better than 8x in the Finals? Okay.
My point is, if your good enough to make it to the finals and consistently lose, thats not an accomplishment
Of course it is. Being the consistent 2nd best at anything in the world is pretty damn good. Thinking more highly of a guy who fails to make the finals than one who loses there isn't much of an accomplishment. If you're only going to count wins, at least be consistent.
When did I say that?
I get what your saying but I doubt Jerry is touting his 1-8 record
You said you'd be more impressed with 1-0 than 1-8, meaning you'd find it more of an accomplishment for him to lose at least one round earlier those 8 years. I know that sounds ridiculous. Because it is.
"1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8"
Where in that statement did I say losing in an earlier round is more of an accomplishment?
You are coming up with your own interpretations of what I said
Ok, you tell me what happened those other 8 years if they aren’t finals losses. In your preferred scenario.
I already told you
No, we are still having this conversation because you’re still trying to both have your illogical assertion and not actually defend the illogic. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:23 pm Post subject:
Wino wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's the Jordan effect!!
I always heard those arguments in any discussion of Magic vs Jordan. Magic made it to the finals 9 times. People always seem to ignore the fact that when you don't make it to the finals, you are worse than at least two teams who did.
We should come up with a weighted measurement based on if you are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th.
Something along that line. Jordan would end out like 5th best or something, Magic, Kareem and Horry would all beat him badly and Russell would destroy him.
I’m not sure I’d use that scale, but yes, the idea that a second place finish is somehow worse than a less than second place finish comes from the mj is god mythology. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
When comparing players of similar level, then yes, total rings and finals record absolutely matters.
I am of the belief that had the Lakers and Magic won in 1991 vs MJ's Bulls, Magic would be considered the GOAT by majority instead of the other way around.
Yes it matters, all we are saying is coming in second is better than coming in lower than second.
So is 5 rings and 4 seconds worse than 6 rings and 0 seconds?
I don't really think so, I would not make much of a deal over it either way. But to denigrate Magic over it and use it as an excuse that somehow Jordan won 100% of the time. No he didn't, he lost worse than Magic ever did, more than Magic ever did. But he made up for it by winning 6. It's the people who use it as the bottom line for their conclusions. Jordan is as good a GOAT as there could be but Magic, Kareem, Kobe or Russell all have their arguments. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:28 pm Post subject:
Jordan did better one more time and worse three more times. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
At the risk of getting banned again for speaking against LeBron; I will make this point.
From the time LeBron entered the NBA, he was referred to literally as if he was Jesus... Savior, Chosen, The One, Promise Keeper, King, Ruler, etc... All while his fans and teammates have been referred to as witnesses. Until recently, (and for many years) there was a giant mural of Lebron looking over the city of Cleveland with his arms stretch out as if he were blessing them.
So that's the standard? Miracles and deity like status. This is on top of extremely douche bag comments (such as people who criticize him still having to live their crappy lives), incessant flopping, and then the team hopping once he realized he couldn't figure out how to win as the lone Alpha.
I feel like I've been lied to... I was told this guy is Jesus. I am expecting perfection. I mean, he's literally called a King. Yet his biggest flaw is the inability (for whatever reason) to seize opportunities and/or moments which not easily attainable. And when he fails, there is always an excuse... It's never his fault and his teammates are left feeling like less than human waste because they didn't do exactly as the King never does...
This is the guy we want to anoint the King of Los Angeles?
I'll be honest... I don't give two craps about LeBron being a Laker. It doesn't sway me one bit. I've seen this from him before. I've also seen true greatness from Kobe. LeBron isn't even close to it and that's what we find offensive in all of this. Maybe some of you are just too young to remember the bull ish Mamba overcame. Both personally and on the court. Mamba embraced the process (good and bad) unlike LeBron who prefers to quit and relocate. Just not to our taste...
So let us be... We ain't trolling and we don't have to be excited about LeBron. It's not a prerequisite of being a fan to want LeBron. If we win a Championship, I'll be cool with it. #17... Awesome... Still doesn't change my feelings about LeBron being here. He's a good player. My belief is that he's truly more on the Tracy McGrady spectrum than the GOAT spectrum. I hope he grows and develops his game here. I am hopeful he stops being selfish and accepts the challenge to achieve greatness instead of feeling he is entitled to it for some reason. If that happens, then the Lakers will benefit. If it doesn't, then LeBron will look to cash in whatever equity he has and force Magic to trade BI, Kuz, Ball, etc...
Oh and for the record... Being 3-6 in the Finals means he didn't seize the opportunity to be great. The circumstances are irrelevant. Out of the 9 opportunities he's had; he's choked, cramped, failed, didn't have the game, or quit 6 times. If you think it's acceptable, then compare LeBron to regular players whom are universally accepted as not GOAT level players. But if you want to compare him to MJ or Mamba... You gotta count the losses because it's part of the package...
Let's just get the season started... Tired of talking about his dude... _________________ “There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject:
That’s a lot of talking for someone who doesn’t want to talk about the dude. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
At the risk of getting banned again for speaking against LeBron; I will make this point.
From the time LeBron entered the NBA, he was referred to literally as if he was Jesus... Savior, Chosen, The One, Promise Keeper, King, Ruler, etc... All while his fans and teammates have been referred to as witnesses. Until recently, (and for many years) there was a giant mural of Lebron looking over the city of Cleveland with his arms stretch out as if he were blessing them.
So that's the standard? Miracles and deity like status. This is on top of extremely douche bag comments (such as people who criticize him still having to live their crappy lives), incessant flopping, and then the team hopping once he realized he couldn't figure out how to win as the lone Alpha.
I feel like I've been lied to... I was told this guy is Jesus. I am expecting perfection. I mean, he's literally called a King. Yet his biggest flaw is the inability (for whatever reason) to seize opportunities and/or moments which not easily attainable. And when he fails, there is always an excuse... It's never his fault and his teammates are left feeling like less than human waste because they didn't do exactly as the King never does...
This is the guy we want to anoint the King of Los Angeles?
I'll be honest... I don't give two craps about LeBron being a Laker. It doesn't sway me one bit. I've seen this from him before. I've also seen true greatness from Kobe. LeBron isn't even close to it and that's what we find offensive in all of this. Maybe some of you are just too young to remember the bull ish Mamba overcame. Both personally and on the court. Mamba embraced the process (good and bad) unlike LeBron who prefers to quit and relocate. Just not to our taste...
So let us be... We ain't trolling and we don't have to be excited about LeBron. It's not a prerequisite of being a fan to want LeBron. If we win a Championship, I'll be cool with it. #17... Awesome... Still doesn't change my feelings about LeBron being here. He's a good player. My belief is that he's truly more on the Tracy McGrady spectrum than the GOAT spectrum. I hope he grows and develops his game here. I am hopeful he stops being selfish and accepts the challenge to achieve greatness instead of feeling he is entitled to it for some reason. If that happens, then the Lakers will benefit. If it doesn't, then LeBron will look to cash in whatever equity he has and force Magic to trade BI, Kuz, Ball, etc...
Oh and for the record... Being 3-6 in the Finals means he didn't seize the opportunity to be great. The circumstances are irrelevant. Out of the 9 opportunities he's had; he's choked, cramped, failed, didn't have the game, or quit 6 times. If you think it's acceptable, then compare LeBron to regular players whom are universally accepted as not GOAT level players. But if you want to compare him to MJ or Mamba... You gotta count the losses because it's part of the package...
Let's just get the season started... Tired of talking about his dude...
Jesus Christ what an awful post. Filled with a bunch of useless talking head tropes. Is that you Skip Bayless? _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22853 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject:
Omar Little wrote:
That’s a lot of talking for someone who doesn’t want to talk about the dude.
And he said to get the season started already, when it'll be Lebron James 24/7, 82 games. LOL! Might as well jump ship if this bothers anybody that much.
At the risk of getting banned again for speaking against LeBron; I will make this point.
From the time LeBron entered the NBA, he was referred to literally as if he was Jesus... Savior, Chosen, The One, Promise Keeper, King, Ruler, etc... All while his fans and teammates have been referred to as witnesses. Until recently, (and for many years) there was a giant mural of Lebron looking over the city of Cleveland with his arms stretch out as if he were blessing them.
So that's the standard? Miracles and deity like status. This is on top of extremely douche bag comments (such as people who criticize him still having to live their crappy lives), incessant flopping, and then the team hopping once he realized he couldn't figure out how to win as the lone Alpha.
I feel like I've been lied to... I was told this guy is Jesus. I am expecting perfection. I mean, he's literally called a King. Yet his biggest flaw is the inability (for whatever reason) to seize opportunities and/or moments which not easily attainable. And when he fails, there is always an excuse... It's never his fault and his teammates are left feeling like less than human waste because they didn't do exactly as the King never does...
This is the guy we want to anoint the King of Los Angeles?
I'll be honest... I don't give two craps about LeBron being a Laker. It doesn't sway me one bit. I've seen this from him before. I've also seen true greatness from Kobe. LeBron isn't even close to it and that's what we find offensive in all of this. Maybe some of you are just too young to remember the bull ish Mamba overcame. Both personally and on the court. Mamba embraced the process (good and bad) unlike LeBron who prefers to quit and relocate. Just not to our taste...
So let us be... We ain't trolling and we don't have to be excited about LeBron. It's not a prerequisite of being a fan to want LeBron. If we win a Championship, I'll be cool with it. #17... Awesome... Still doesn't change my feelings about LeBron being here. He's a good player. My belief is that he's truly more on the Tracy McGrady spectrum than the GOAT spectrum. I hope he grows and develops his game here. I am hopeful he stops being selfish and accepts the challenge to achieve greatness instead of feeling he is entitled to it for some reason. If that happens, then the Lakers will benefit. If it doesn't, then LeBron will look to cash in whatever equity he has and force Magic to trade BI, Kuz, Ball, etc...
Oh and for the record... Being 3-6 in the Finals means he didn't seize the opportunity to be great. The circumstances are irrelevant. Out of the 9 opportunities he's had; he's choked, cramped, failed, didn't have the game, or quit 6 times. If you think it's acceptable, then compare LeBron to regular players whom are universally accepted as not GOAT level players. But if you want to compare him to MJ or Mamba... You gotta count the losses because it's part of the package...
Let's just get the season started... Tired of talking about his dude...
They should ban you again for comparing him to Tracy McGrady. What an incredibly weird post. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
At the risk of getting banned again for speaking against LeBron; I will make this point.
From the time LeBron entered the NBA, he was referred to literally as if he was Jesus... Savior, Chosen, The One, Promise Keeper, King, Ruler, etc... All while his fans and teammates have been referred to as witnesses. Until recently, (and for many years) there was a giant mural of Lebron looking over the city of Cleveland with his arms stretch out as if he were blessing them.
So that's the standard? Miracles and deity like status. This is on top of extremely douche bag comments (such as people who criticize him still having to live their crappy lives), incessant flopping, and then the team hopping once he realized he couldn't figure out how to win as the lone Alpha.
I feel like I've been lied to... I was told this guy is Jesus. I am expecting perfection. I mean, he's literally called a King. Yet his biggest flaw is the inability (for whatever reason) to seize opportunities and/or moments which not easily attainable. And when he fails, there is always an excuse... It's never his fault and his teammates are left feeling like less than human waste because they didn't do exactly as the King never does...
This is the guy we want to anoint the King of Los Angeles?
I'll be honest... I don't give two craps about LeBron being a Laker. It doesn't sway me one bit. I've seen this from him before. I've also seen true greatness from Kobe. LeBron isn't even close to it and that's what we find offensive in all of this. Maybe some of you are just too young to remember the bull ish Mamba overcame. Both personally and on the court. Mamba embraced the process (good and bad) unlike LeBron who prefers to quit and relocate. Just not to our taste...
So let us be... We ain't trolling and we don't have to be excited about LeBron. It's not a prerequisite of being a fan to want LeBron. If we win a Championship, I'll be cool with it. #17... Awesome... Still doesn't change my feelings about LeBron being here. He's a good player. My belief is that he's truly more on the Tracy McGrady spectrum than the GOAT spectrum. I hope he grows and develops his game here. I am hopeful he stops being selfish and accepts the challenge to achieve greatness instead of feeling he is entitled to it for some reason. If that happens, then the Lakers will benefit. If it doesn't, then LeBron will look to cash in whatever equity he has and force Magic to trade BI, Kuz, Ball, etc...
Oh and for the record... Being 3-6 in the Finals means he didn't seize the opportunity to be great. The circumstances are irrelevant. Out of the 9 opportunities he's had; he's choked, cramped, failed, didn't have the game, or quit 6 times. If you think it's acceptable, then compare LeBron to regular players whom are universally accepted as not GOAT level players. But if you want to compare him to MJ or Mamba... You gotta count the losses because it's part of the package...
Let's just get the season started... Tired of talking about his dude...
Because some sportswriters put the predictable nickname "King" on a guy named James, you were expecting him to be perfect?
Do yourself a favor and avoid watching King Kong. You'll just be disappointed.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
