God help me for asking this, but for the crowd that uses the fact that LeBron is 3-6 in the Finals as an argumentative point...would it be better if he was 3-0 and lost early in the playoffs those other 6 years instead?
It's such a weird point to make.
It's so ironic, the last folks you'd expect to use that as an argument are people who are fans of the Lakers. No player has a worse Finals record than Jerry West, but Laker fans don't seem to hold that against him.
So if Jerry West was 8-1 in the Finals instead of 1-8 you don't think it would affect his all-time ranking and fans perception of him at all?
If West was 8-1 in the Finals people would definitely be putting him over Kobe as the 2nd greatest SG of all-time and would be viewed as the Bill Russell of perimeter players (a guy who would be on everyone's short list for GOAT because of the overwhelming amount of championship success that couldn't be ignored). And he would rank higher on the all-time Lakers list as well. It definitely matters...
I think the question wasn’t if Jerry West was 8-1 instead of 1-8, the question was would it have looked better if Jerry West was 1-0 and not make finals the other 8 times?
1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8
Again, this makes no sense to me. In the above scenario, West would only be "1-0" because you were pretending the 8 years he didn't get to the finals don't exist.
The reality is any year any player doesn't win a ring he lost; the only question is at what point he lost -- in the finals, in the conference finals, in the second round, in the first round, or in the regular season.
This is like Alice in Wonderland. It makes no sense.
Sure it doesnt "make sense", but thats the reality of the situation, and a reason why West isnt ranked as high as he should be
When he made it to the final stage, he lost more than he won, plain and simple
And it's a pretty inane reason.
Losing 8x in the 1st round of the playoffs is better than 8x in the Finals? Okay.
My point is, if your good enough to make it to the finals and consistently lose, thats not an accomplishment
Of course it is. Being the consistent 2nd best at anything in the world is pretty damn good. Thinking more highly of a guy who fails to make the finals than one who loses there isn't much of an accomplishment. If you're only going to count wins, at least be consistent.
When did I say that?
I get what your saying but I doubt Jerry is touting his 1-8 record
You said you'd be more impressed with 1-0 than 1-8, meaning you'd find it more of an accomplishment for him to lose at least one round earlier those 8 years. I know that sounds ridiculous. Because it is.
"1-0 would look better to me instead of 1-8"
Where in that statement did I say losing in an earlier round is more of an accomplishment?
You are coming up with your own interpretations of what I said
Ok, you tell me what happened those other 8 years if they aren’t finals losses. In your preferred scenario.
I already told you
No, we are still having this conversation because you’re still trying to both have your illogical assertion and not actually defend the illogic.
An opinion based question was asked. I answered such question, and now its illogical? ok _________________ DISGUSTING:
Big Game James wrote:
I'm Kwame Brown and every one of my posts seem to be moved. I find this perplexing because I've never had a post move before!
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject:
Oh, so an opinion by nature is immune from being illogical, especially if solicited? Stop digging. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion. _________________
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Last edited by Batguano on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:26 am; edited 2 times in total
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too. _________________
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too.
you're just proving my point for me.
The goalposts have been shifted for LeBron. Like you said, now EVERYONE uses his Finals appearances as one of the main arguments for his GOATness. Answer me this, when Kobe was making 7 finals (coming out of the much tougher West), was it considered a HUGE accomplishment JUST to make it to the Finals? Or were the two Finals where he did make it but lost treated as tarnishes on his GOAT argument?
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, then it’s matchup records, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this. _________________
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this.
So now you're trying to argue that regular season matchups matter as much or more than postseason? And that thinking that postseason matchups holds more value is a biased/convenient point of view....?
Ho'k....
So GOAT "is an endless debate", yet here you are, having a little meltdown about it online when someone doesn't agree with your point of view...
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too.
you're just proving my point for me.
The goalposts have been shifted for LeBron. Like you said, now EVERYONE uses his Finals appearances as one of the main arguments for his GOATness. Answer me this, when Kobe was making 7 finals (coming out of the much tougher West), was it considered a HUGE accomplishment JUST to make it to the Finals? Or were the two Finals where he did make it but lost treated as tarnishes on his GOAT argument?
You want *context*?
You bring up LeBron’s 8 *straight* finals appearances as a knock because it was in the East yet...
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances *straight* then you bet it would be brought up.
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances as the #1 guy and not behind Shaq then you bet it would be more impressive.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this.
So now you're trying to argue that regular season matchups matter as much or more than postseason? And that thinking that postseason matchups holds more value is a biased/convenient point of view....?
Ho'k....
So GOAT "is an endless debate", yet here you are, having a little meltdown about it online when someone doesn't agree with your point of view...
It does for you if Kobe was on top.
And ironically, you are here having this little meltdown in this thread trying to find ways to keep Kobe on top. _________________
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too.
you're just proving my point for me.
The goalposts have been shifted for LeBron. Like you said, now EVERYONE uses his Finals appearances as one of the main arguments for his GOATness. Answer me this, when Kobe was making 7 finals (coming out of the much tougher West), was it considered a HUGE accomplishment JUST to make it to the Finals? Or were the two Finals where he did make it but lost treated as tarnishes on his GOAT argument?
You want *context*?
You bring up LeBron’s 8 *straight* finals appearances as a knock because it was in the East yet...
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances *straight* then you bet it would be brought up.
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances as the #1 guy and not behind Shaq then you bet it would be more impressive.
That’s where the context is.
So now the 7 appearances have to happen consecutively for it to truly be considered GOAT? (even if he has to go through a much tougher conference with another dynasty team in the Spurs in that very conference).
Sounds like a lot of speculation on your part on how Kobe's career would be perceived. Especially considering how many narratives where spun (and continue to be spun) to try to put a glass ceiling on his greatness.
I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up Shaq.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this.
So now you're trying to argue that regular season matchups matter as much or more than postseason? And that thinking that postseason matchups holds more value is a biased/convenient point of view....?
Ho'k....
So GOAT "is an endless debate", yet here you are, having a little meltdown about it online when someone doesn't agree with your point of view...
It does for you if Kobe was on top.
And ironically, you are here having this little meltdown in this thread trying to find ways to keep Kobe on top.
No. It does for EVERYONE who follows sports. You're the one that's seriously here trying to pretend like regular season matchups matter more than playoff matchups.
Also, you're the one that's running to the mods like a little kid who got his toy stolen in the sandbox and can't handle yourself trying to get me suspended or something.
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too.
you're just proving my point for me.
The goalposts have been shifted for LeBron. Like you said, now EVERYONE uses his Finals appearances as one of the main arguments for his GOATness. Answer me this, when Kobe was making 7 finals (coming out of the much tougher West), was it considered a HUGE accomplishment JUST to make it to the Finals? Or were the two Finals where he did make it but lost treated as tarnishes on his GOAT argument?
You want *context*?
You bring up LeBron’s 8 *straight* finals appearances as a knock because it was in the East yet...
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances *straight* then you bet it would be brought up.
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances as the #1 guy and not behind Shaq then you bet it would be more impressive.
That’s where the context is.
So now the 7 appearances have to happen consecutively for it to truly be considered GOAT? (even if he has to go through a much tougher conference with another dynasty team in the Spurs in that very conference).
Sounds like a lot of speculation on your part on how Kobe's career would be perceived. Especially considering how many narratives where spun (and continue to be spun) to try to put a glass ceiling on his greatness.
I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up Shaq.
Are we back in 2005?
So what’s your rebutted for the Shaq thing then? Inserting Lol emoji?
And sure, making 8 straight finals appearances apparently is worthy of GOAT discussion coz that’s what’s everyone’s talking about right now so... 🙄 _________________
In a 10 year career, if you win 3 chips and make 7 NBA Finals, that is a substantially better accomplishment than a 10 year career with 3 chips and 7 lottery bound seasons.
How is this even a discussion that making the finals is always better than missing the playoffs entirely?
It’s not really a discussion, it’s just a few’s delusion.
Keep telling yourself that.
It's literally one of the main standards by which GOATness is measured. Except now that some of you like LeBron better you decided to be hypocrites about it and pretend like that's not the case. And pretend like it was never a measuring stick used by EVERYONE. It's all very convenient timing...
And yet by the same token EVERYONE also keeps bringing up LeBron’s 8 straight finals appearances as a big measuring stick for GOAT too. So making to the Finals does count too huh?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that too.
you're just proving my point for me.
The goalposts have been shifted for LeBron. Like you said, now EVERYONE uses his Finals appearances as one of the main arguments for his GOATness. Answer me this, when Kobe was making 7 finals (coming out of the much tougher West), was it considered a HUGE accomplishment JUST to make it to the Finals? Or were the two Finals where he did make it but lost treated as tarnishes on his GOAT argument?
You want *context*?
You bring up LeBron’s 8 *straight* finals appearances as a knock because it was in the East yet...
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances *straight* then you bet it would be brought up.
If Kobe had made those 7 Finals appearances as the #1 guy and not behind Shaq then you bet it would be more impressive.
That’s where the context is.
So now the 7 appearances have to happen consecutively for it to truly be considered GOAT? (even if he has to go through a much tougher conference with another dynasty team in the Spurs in that very conference).
Sounds like a lot of speculation on your part on how Kobe's career would be perceived. Especially considering how many narratives where spun (and continue to be spun) to try to put a glass ceiling on his greatness.
I was wondering how long it would take you to bring up Shaq.
Are we back in 2005?
So what’s your rebutted for the Shaq thing then? Inserting Lol emoji?
And sure, making 8 straight finals appearances apparently is worthy of GOAT discussion coz that’s what’s everyone’s talking about right now so... 🙄
I agree, that's what everyone is talking about NOW (now that they've conveniently shifted the GOALposts for LeBron in a way no other GOAT has had the luxury in ANY sport). Find me the "unanimous GOAT" of any other team sport that 1) has a losing finals record, 2) has less rings than the other GOAT candidates he's being compared to...
I'll wait...
P.S. if Kobe made 8 straight finals appearances (in the East) and only won 3, and had a finals losing record, you better believe that it would be used against his GOAT argument way more than its used against LeBron.
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this.
So now you're trying to argue that regular season matchups matter as much or more than postseason? And that thinking that postseason matchups holds more value is a biased/convenient point of view....?
Ho'k....
So GOAT "is an endless debate", yet here you are, having a little meltdown about it online when someone doesn't agree with your point of view...
It does for you if Kobe was on top.
And ironically, you are here having this little meltdown in this thread trying to find ways to keep Kobe on top.
No. It does for EVERYONE who follows sports. You're the one that's seriously here trying to pretend like regular season matchups matter more than playoff matchups.
Also, you're the one that's running to the mods like a little kid who got his toy stolen in the sandbox and can't handle yourself trying to get me suspended or something.
But I'm the one having the "meltdown", right...?
Of course you missed the point because you take everything here literally. You will find ways to shift the metrics to put Kobe on top, that's the point. Then shift it to personal attacks with to hide your own meltdowns _________________
I'll chime in on this little topic, 3-0,3-1,...3-5 are all more impressive than 3-6, especially given the context of the GOAT discussion, the Eastern Conference since Jordan retired from the Bulls in 1998, and the Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland.
It does count a great deal because what we expect from the GOAT is getting it done on the when the pressure is at its greatest. I'd also say some persons have no remorse for LeBron losing to the Warriors due to him being the one who started this trend of players forming Super Teams. LeBron is a great player, but he isn't and will never be the GOAT.
To me Michael Jordan is the GOAT. #2 on that list is a tie of Kobe and Kareem. #4 is Magic #5 Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan
Then why is #2 a tie between Kobe and Kareem?
Based on your logic:
Kareem = 6-4
Kobe = 5-2
So that means Kareem > Kobe.
By the way, on that same logic...
Duncan = 5-1
So in that regard, Duncan > Kobe.
Robert Horry 7-0
Gosh! I never said it was the only factor, but it does matter.
Moreover, that silver medal argument is the single dumbest argument in the GOAT debate.
If Usain Bolt came 2nd more times that he came first in the Olympics and World Championships, then he would not be recognized as the greatest athlete ever. He was known for dominating when the stakes were at its highest. He wasn't the greatest in the Diamond League races either.
Furthermore, you cannot tell me that the Cavs were the second best team the past 2 years. The Spurs (2017) and Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Thunder and Blazers were better (2018). In fact even in Olympic Basketball, I don't really consider coming 2nd that great of an achievement due to luck of a tournament bracket. It takes supreme dominance to get an Olympic gold to counteract tournament luck, which is what the US is known for and anything short of that shows too. Hence, this is why LeBron has been berated over 2004 and 2006, but I digress.
On my ranking I factor in skills both on offense (footwork, shooting, scoring, passing) and defense, impact on the game, clutch factor (willingness to take firstly, and make the highest pressured shots), toughness (physically and mentally) and commitment to winning the game of basketball with integrity (this is where that finals record factors in).
Not to mention that Kobe has a 4-3 lead in his playoffs series vs Duncan's Spurs. Which to me is a greater tiebreaker to them both having 5 rings than Duncan having just lost 1 finals to Kobe's 2.
(*4-2 to be exact, since Kobe got injured before the 2013 series.)
As for Kareem. Kareem won ALL of his 6 rings with another Top 10/GOAT player by his side (first Oscar, then Magic). Kobe was able to win with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player TWICE (a great HOF player, but nowhere near the level of Big O or Magic). And THAT'S why I would rank Kobe ahead of Kareem.
You guys keep doing the same thing you and all the fans have been doing for the past 20 years. Spinning one-sided narratives without any sort of context and relying on hyperbolic retorts: "ROBERT HORRY 7 RINGS, DURRRRRRR"
Stop. It.....
Hillarious!
Can’t handle brining up that Duncan is 5-1 vs Kobe being 5-2 after berating that more finals appearances don’t count when it comes to LeBron. Hyprocritical.
😂
Nope. It's called context, kiddo.
If Duncan and Kobe were tied in their playoff matchups, then I would give Duncan's better Finals record the edge. But it isn't, so...
Slow down and read and process. Stop going so much by fanatical emotion.
If it’s not Finals record, it’s matchup record, but if someone says something like Kobe is 6-15 against LeBron, you’ll find something else and other reasons to try to put Kobe on top.
That’s context for you
I assume by "6-15" you mean regular season matchup (since they never met in the playoffs)?
Way to prove my point for me. Just keep leaning on that hyperbole.
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
"Oh it's not the playoffs so it don't mean anything" of course if that was the other way around.... too obvious.
That's the real hyperbole.
Goat is an endless debate. Only thing you've proven is there is nothing
Batguano wrote:
Nobody is saying it's one or the other (that's what YOU and the LeBron whiteknights are doing). We're saying it's a combination of things...
Uh oh!
Attacking posters now?
Chief Linda not gonna like this.
So now you're trying to argue that regular season matchups matter as much or more than postseason? And that thinking that postseason matchups holds more value is a biased/convenient point of view....?
Ho'k....
So GOAT "is an endless debate", yet here you are, having a little meltdown about it online when someone doesn't agree with your point of view...
It does for you if Kobe was on top.
And ironically, you are here having this little meltdown in this thread trying to find ways to keep Kobe on top.
No. It does for EVERYONE who follows sports. You're the one that's seriously here trying to pretend like regular season matchups matter more than playoff matchups.
Also, you're the one that's running to the mods like a little kid who got his toy stolen in the sandbox and can't handle yourself trying to get me suspended or something.
But I'm the one having the "meltdown", right...?
Of course you missed the point because you take everything here literally. You will find ways to shift the metrics to put Kobe on top, that's the point. Then shift it to personal attacks with to hide your own meltdowns
Your own messages are riddled with emojis as well, dude.
And you're just as guilty as shifting the narrative/facts to put LeBron on top. What exactly is the difference? (other than you thinking you're right and I'm wrong?)
Are you really that triggered that someone would make an argument for Kobe as the GOAT? But let me guess, if I was making an argument for say Kareem or Magic, you probably wouldn't have as much of an issue...
Yeah, that's normal... *insert emoji here*
((THIS PERSONAL BACK AND FORTH IS UNPLEASEANT TO READ AND EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT TO AVOID. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ENDING IT. FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT - JMK))
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
