| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kb24goldenChild wrote: | https://youtu.be/XCjVTCBnA-Y
LeBron shooting at Staples , Don't know if posted yet. |
I think that was when he was with the Cavs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I could be wrong though |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: |
Even harder to believe how many people were angry about it at the time. |
They could have signed LeBron without this trade, and I'm not sure how you got both Kuzma and Hart from this trade.
What's more is the people who were happy with the trade were happy because it opened up space for Paul George and another max. If you're playing the hindsight bias game, it cuts both ways. |
I look at that trade as getting one of Kuz/Hart, moving the Moz deal off the books and removing a potential locker room/ team culture problem in DLo.
I wouldn’t trade Hart for DLo straight up, so the fact that they cleared the space but weren’t able to sign a second guy this summer isn’t a problem for me. Imo it was a smart play to open 2 max slots this summer, in case Lebron was only willing to come with someone else, and now they roll that slot over to next summer. It’s not like they only had one summer to make it all happen.
I still think it’s not a coincidence that we didn’t start hearing rumors about how confident OKC was in keeping PG until after the KL trade rumors had hit high gear. There’s a real possibility the Lakers came to the same conclusion I did once they realized KL was a real possibility and backed off their pursuit of PG to maintain leverage to get KL. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | tox wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: |
Even harder to believe how many people were angry about it at the time. |
They could have signed LeBron without this trade, and I'm not sure how you got both Kuzma and Hart from this trade.
What's more is the people who were happy with the trade were happy because it opened up space for Paul George and another max. If you're playing the hindsight bias game, it cuts both ways. |
So we come into this summer with both Moz and Deng?
And LeBron gladly joins knowing we have to get rid of perhaps both to get the 2nd max next year since we'd still have dlo's $9M cap hit next year? And we're reading that other teams want an arm and a leg for Deng. But then the Lakers gotta get rid of Moz too?
And then we gotta worry about a dlo contract as a RFA?
Naw man. We made the right trade at the right time. Sure PG was on the radar. But the move I believe helped us be in position to get a max. And the max just happened to be LeBron. So it was a great trade imo. |
You misunderstood me. I am not arguing that the trade wasn't a good (or great) one. I am criticizing the hindsight bias reasoning underlying BSH's opinion of people who were initially unhappy with the trade. Especially since if you use hindsight bias, the stated justification for why the deal was great (we can get PG and another max!!) didn't occur either.
That we are far better off with Hart + >$20M cap space (as you mentioned) than Russell is irrelevant, because I am not arguing about the merits of the trade per se. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Killakobe81 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. I like that he hit on one but I doubt that the top teams in the league are shaking in their boots. GS, Boston and Houston are saying been there, done that. |
I actually appreciate your contrarian and even sometimes negative views. I think if everyone here is full of hope and optimism makes for a dull forum.
That being said, not sure how folks on here can lament that overrated PG did not meet with us and still dismiss the great job the FO did in landing a King, with even Jerry West throwing shade. PG just 48 hrs before proved nothing should be assumed and nothing is promised. Getting James was huge, by far the best player available, without emptying our war chest. |
Magic is a man of hyperbola who overhypes everything so if you take his promises at their word you're destined to be disappointed.
He's done a great job in his first two years. He drafted well, he got some dead wood off the books, and he landed one of the top free agents ever. He's also positioned the Lakers so they have cap room to sign another big free agent next year.
I don't think magic is some Svengali who is going to draw free agents simply because of the power of his personality. But so far he's done well |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
At the time I felt they sold low on Russell for reasons that weren't all basketball related. But I think his value has actually fallen since then. He's still a super interesting player, but after additional knee issues and his being one year from free agency with a monster cap hold, I don't know if you could get a great package in trade for him. To get their 2Max slots, BRK would need to renounce him.
Randle, Payton and Mudiay netted offers of 2nd round picks this past deadline. If Russell has another choppy first half of the year, is he in that category come February?
_________________
Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Kb24goldenChild wrote: | https://youtu.be/XCjVTCBnA-Y
LeBron shooting at Staples , Don't know if posted yet. |
I think that was when he was with the Cavs. |
You're right. I was going to say it if no one else did. That appears to have been a shootaround when the Cavs were playing the Lakers.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Laker's Fan wrote: | | At the time I felt they sold low on Russell for reasons that weren't all basketball related. But I think his value has actually fallen since then. |
Yes, in hindsight, the decision to trade him looks sound. But I never had a problem with that part -- you have to give the FO and coaches the benefit of the doubt when it comes to players that they work with every day. My issue was always with the return on the trade. Rather than getting assets, Magic committed us to the two max free agent strategy. If Magic pulls it off, I'll tip my cap to him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Kb24goldenChild wrote: | https://youtu.be/XCjVTCBnA-Y
LeBron shooting at Staples , Don't know if posted yet. |
I think that was when he was with the Cavs. |
You're right. I was going to say it if no one else did. That appears to have been a shootaround when the Cavs were playing the Lakers. |
Yeah, I remember looking at a video very close to that a few months back and I can swore it was the same video the user posted. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wino
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002
Posts: 9674
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree with Jeannie Buss, anyone who is dissing Lebron because of Kobe and anyone who can't appreciate the moves/job Magic and Rob have made are just not Lakers fans. This site needs to be well aware of this fact, a fact that is NOT eluding the Lakers FO. They are wringing their hands of you, they don't consider you fans of the team and are writing you off. Since it looks like this site is HUGELY supporting the moves this team has made of late, I would say that most of the users here support the same conclusion. You guys are like the antifa of LG. You are hardcore and won't back down, no matter how wrong you are.
Honestly, if I owned the site, I would read you your rights, give you three months to after the season to get in line or encourage you all to walk to the best of my abilities.
I say go Lakers!
_________________
Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | epak wrote: | | tox wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: |
Even harder to believe how many people were angry about it at the time. |
They could have signed LeBron without this trade, and I'm not sure how you got both Kuzma and Hart from this trade.
What's more is the people who were happy with the trade were happy because it opened up space for Paul George and another max. If you're playing the hindsight bias game, it cuts both ways. |
So we come into this summer with both Moz and Deng?
And LeBron gladly joins knowing we have to get rid of perhaps both to get the 2nd max next year since we'd still have dlo's $9M cap hit next year? And we're reading that other teams want an arm and a leg for Deng. But then the Lakers gotta get rid of Moz too?
And then we gotta worry about a dlo contract as a RFA?
Naw man. We made the right trade at the right time. Sure PG was on the radar. But the move I believe helped us be in position to get a max. And the max just happened to be LeBron. So it was a great trade imo. |
You misunderstood me. I am not arguing that the trade wasn't a good (or great) one. I am criticizing the hindsight bias reasoning underlying BSH's opinion of people who were initially unhappy with the trade.
That we are far better off with Hart + >$20M cap space (as you mentioned) than Russell is irrelevant, because I am not arguing about the merits of the trade per se. |
It’s not hindsight bias when I felt the same way about the trade at the time that I do now. I always thought it was the right move.
I’m not critical of people who thought otherwise. What I was (and still am) surprised by was how many people were against the trade. It always seemed like a slamdunk to me. I was also surprised by the level of vitriol towards Magic that a good number of people used in their criticisms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Kb24goldenChild wrote: | https://youtu.be/XCjVTCBnA-Y
LeBron shooting at Staples , Don't know if posted yet. |
I think that was when he was with the Cavs. |
You're right. I was going to say it if no one else did. That appears to have been a shootaround when the Cavs were playing the Lakers. |
Yeah, I remember looking at a video very close to that a few months back and I can swore it was the same video the user posted. |
and it is not like the Lakers floor remains setup in Staples year round.....I would assume it has not been out of storage since the Houston game in April. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killakobe81
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1604
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Killakobe81 wrote: | | That being said, not sure how folks on here can lament that overrated PG did not meet with us |
It's sort of remarkable how quickly Paul George became overrated once he signed with OKC. There were people who had that opinion all along (including me, to be honest), but for a lot of people the speed of the flip-flop must have caused whiplash. I can remember writing a post about four months ago in which I said that I would laugh at Magic if the best he could do this summer was sign Paul George. There were some people who got all bent out of shape about that. |
Check my post history, I said overrated at a max deal and have never wavered. He is a good, very good player but not worth the max IMHO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killakobe81
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1604
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | It's sort of remarkable how quickly Paul George became overrated once he signed with OKC. There were people who had that opinion all along (including me, to be honest), but for a lot of people the speed of the flip-flop must have caused whiplash. I can remember writing a post about four months ago in which I said that I would laugh at Magic if the best he could do this summer was sign Paul George. There were some people who got all bent out of shape about that. |
I agree that PG was overrated by lots of fans, but I don't see why it would be something to laugh at if we signed an All Star in his prime. |
Because he doesn’t move the needle. If you are going to dump assets to clear cap space for max free agents, you need to sign players who move the needle. Lebron meets that description if age doesn’t catch up with him. Leonard meets that description if he is healthy. They are all-NBA caliber players who are more than just a useful piece. George is a top 25-ish player in the league who doesn’t move the needle. |
This x100 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Killakobe81 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Killakobe81 wrote: | | That being said, not sure how folks on here can lament that overrated PG did not meet with us |
It's sort of remarkable how quickly Paul George became overrated once he signed with OKC. There were people who had that opinion all along (including me, to be honest), but for a lot of people the speed of the flip-flop must have caused whiplash. I can remember writing a post about four months ago in which I said that I would laugh at Magic if the best he could do this summer was sign Paul George. There were some people who got all bent out of shape about that. |
Check my post history, I said overrated at a max deal and have never wavered. He is a good, very good player but not worth the max IMHO. |
You can essentially be getting max money without actually being worthy of it, examples are Wiggins and DeRozan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wino wrote: | I agree with Jeannie Buss, anyone who is dissing Lebron because of Kobe and anyone who can't appreciate the moves/job Magic and Rob have made are just not Lakers fans. This site needs to be well aware of this fact, a fact that is NOT eluding the Lakers FO. They are wringing their hands of you, they don't consider you fans of the team and are writing you off. Since it looks like this site is HUGELY supporting the moves this team has made of late, I would say that most of the users here support the same conclusion. You guys are like the antifa of LG. You are hardcore and won't back down, no matter how wrong you are.
Honestly, if I owned the site, I would read you your rights, give you three months to after the season to get in line or encourage you all to walk to the best of my abilities.
I say go Lakers! |
So basically you would impose a loyalty test. We either unreservedly support Jeanie, Magic, and Pelinka, or we aren't really Laker fans and should take a hike. And you think that the front office is "writing us off" because of our disloyalty. Yeah, right.
I'll give you an alternative perspective. The ownership of a team would dearly love to have unconditional support from its customers. But it doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't. We are the customers. They are the vendor. They need to earn our support. Fans are the ultimate check on the management of a team. We have the power to stop showing up for games and to switch channels. If you give a team unconditional support, you are a sucker.
Over time, the ownership of a team can earn the benefit of the doubt. Dr. Buss did that. Jerry West did that. Mitch Kupchak did that. Jeanie, Magic, and Pelinka have accomplished nothing. They do not get credit for Jerry, Jerry, and Mitch's rings by osmosis. None of them had anything to do with them (well, except Magic as a player).
So if Jeanie tells me that I need to get in line or I'm not a Laker fan, my instinct is to show her my middle finger. If she brings us a ring, we'll talk. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| babyskyhook wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
Jim/Kupchak would still be in charge if VLF had his way. And we'd still have Mozgov and JC on the books and no Lebron. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Ziggy wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
Jim/Kupchak would still be in charge if VLF had his way. And we'd still have Mozgov and JC on the books and no Lebron. |
VLF is woofing again.
2017 he was punting.
2018, only got the #1 player in the NBA.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Daphanabe
Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2768
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. I like that he hit on one but I doubt that the top teams in the league are shaking in their boots. GS, Boston and Houston are saying been there, done that. |
What an awful take. Crap posts like these are why people make fun of you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | epak wrote: | | tox wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: |
Even harder to believe how many people were angry about it at the time. |
They could have signed LeBron without this trade, and I'm not sure how you got both Kuzma and Hart from this trade.
What's more is the people who were happy with the trade were happy because it opened up space for Paul George and another max. If you're playing the hindsight bias game, it cuts both ways. |
So we come into this summer with both Moz and Deng?
And LeBron gladly joins knowing we have to get rid of perhaps both to get the 2nd max next year since we'd still have dlo's $9M cap hit next year? And we're reading that other teams want an arm and a leg for Deng. But then the Lakers gotta get rid of Moz too?
And then we gotta worry about a dlo contract as a RFA?
Naw man. We made the right trade at the right time. Sure PG was on the radar. But the move I believe helped us be in position to get a max. And the max just happened to be LeBron. So it was a great trade imo. |
You misunderstood me. I am not arguing that the trade wasn't a good (or great) one. I am criticizing the hindsight bias reasoning underlying BSH's opinion of people who were initially unhappy with the trade. Especially since if you use hindsight bias, the stated justification for why the deal was great (we can get PG and another max!!) didn't occur either.
That we are far better off with Hart + >$20M cap space (as you mentioned) than Russell is irrelevant, because I am not arguing about the merits of the trade per se. |
Apologies. I'm still not understanding though.
If the premise was PG + max, and we end up with Lebron + max.
Didnt we come out better? Or forget the PG vs Lebron comparison. As long as we get a PG-like talent + another max, isn't the premise met? Or did it have to be solely PG?
BTW, what was the reasoning for the 2017 trade in the first place (without the hindsight bias). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killakobe81
Star Player
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 1604
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Killakobe81 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Killakobe81 wrote: | | That being said, not sure how folks on here can lament that overrated PG did not meet with us |
It's sort of remarkable how quickly Paul George became overrated once he signed with OKC. There were people who had that opinion all along (including me, to be honest), but for a lot of people the speed of the flip-flop must have caused whiplash. I can remember writing a post about four months ago in which I said that I would laugh at Magic if the best he could do this summer was sign Paul George. There were some people who got all bent out of shape about that. |
Check my post history, I said overrated at a max deal and have never wavered. He is a good, very good player but not worth the max IMHO. |
You can essentially be getting max money without actually being worthy of it, examples are Wiggins and DeRozan |
I feel the EXACT same about those guys and Otto Porter. On other sites I heard the argument that max contracts are the "cost of doing business". But it's never a smart business move to overpay players. I do not wish to lose players for nada but I would prefer the cap flex, versus overpaying inflated salary above the real player's value.
Kawahi would be worth it, absolutely IF he is healthy. But if he looks less than 100% then I would have serious concerns ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
Jim/Kupchak would still be in charge if VLF had his way. And we'd still have Mozgov and JC on the books and no Lebron. |
VLF is woofing again.
2017 he was punting.
2018, only got the #1 player in the NBA. |
Anyone recall the cap situation in the summer of 2017? Did he have money to play with? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
Jim/Kupchak would still be in charge if VLF had his way. And we'd still have Mozgov and JC on the books and no Lebron. |
VLF is woofing again.
2017 he was punting.
2018, only got the #1 player in the NBA. |
Anyone recall the cap situation in the summer of 2017? Did he have money to play with? |
Close to 20-22m or something like that.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | epak wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | PengShow wrote: | NBA FO's are scared of Magic's impact, he's one guy who can relate to these players when others can't.
We have an advantage nobody has and I hope they're using it to the fullest. |
Magic has hit on one big FA in 2 offseason, whiffing otherwise. |
They didn’t even try to sign a max FA last summer. |
Jim/Kupchak would still be in charge if VLF had his way. And we'd still have Mozgov and JC on the books and no Lebron. |
VLF is woofing again.
2017 he was punting.
2018, only got the #1 player in the NBA. |
Anyone recall the cap situation in the summer of 2017? Did he have money to play with? |
Close to 20-22m or something like that. |
Oh, so not even max money? How pathetic of Magic for not being able to get a guy to take less than $8M per year to sign with us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
