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ShowtimeReturns
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I'm ok with James not being a vocal style leader. Not everyone can or will be.

My criticisms of his lack of "leadership" is directly related to his play on the court or the passive aggressive messages he sends through the media.

For years it is not James making a controversial comment about his coaches or teammates it is almost always an "insider on his team". He is as savvy off the court as he is on it. Image is everything in marketing. Especially in our highlight reel society.

On the court he is frustrating as hell. He will control the game and have explosive dunks and drives on one end but then barely moves on defense. Repeatedly giving up easy baskets, rebounds or wide open 3pt shots. Walton tries to hide him on defense and he is still exposed due to lack of effort.

The conveniently selective nature of his injuries or efforts is what I find the most maddening. Shouldn't it show up on both ends and not before he was actually injured?

Leadership comes in many forms. Where exactly has he shown any this season? Platitudes at a press conference before the season? Since then....

Lebron got exposed on his poor defense big time this year and the effort was not there. It was upsetting when he called out teammates when he dogged it on defense.The optics are very bad when your leader is sitting at the end of the bench and not taking part in the huddle with the rest of the team.I know a lot of people says it doesn't matter but I think it's sending the wrong message.He is still great on the offensive side and rebounds well but on defense and leadership not good.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:22 am    Post subject:

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Lebron isn't the full reason for the problems nor is he some bum. However, I don't think he is all that either. I've already compared him to Wilt but that's the vibe I get. He is the best athlete since Wilt in the NBA from an all-around perspective. That means he will obviously be great.

However, Lebron is a great INDIVIDUAL player. He suffers a lot of the same issues that prevented Wilt from obliterating the NBA and being the GOAT. Issues with coaches, issues with teammates, leadership issues, inability to lead, ego issues, and etc. From watching Lebron since he came into the NBA it's always seemed to me that he goes out there and does his thing and if his thing doesn't go well or if he doesn't get to do his thing he gets upset and everything goes south quick. He also doesn't play in any kind of system because he wants to be the system. Meaning his stats are always incredible but it's also hard for teammates to perform (which is why he always apparently has bad teammates).

Lebron is still one of the best player and an all-time great. However, the Lakers really have to give him what he wants in order for them to reach their potential. Which is why I wasn't a fan of the signing. It scares me that they will throw away their entire future only to make it to the WCF at best for a year or two. The only way they become a legitimate contender is if Kawhi or KD agree to join. No chance. If I was them I would try and sign a guy like Kemba or Kyrie and some good 3 and D players. You'll still be able to make some noise and be a respectable team. At the same time, you don't throw away your entire future.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject:

ShowtimeReturns wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I'm ok with James not being a vocal style leader. Not everyone can or will be.

My criticisms of his lack of "leadership" is directly related to his play on the court or the passive aggressive messages he sends through the media.

For years it is not James making a controversial comment about his coaches or teammates it is almost always an "insider on his team". He is as savvy off the court as he is on it. Image is everything in marketing. Especially in our highlight reel society.

On the court he is frustrating as hell. He will control the game and have explosive dunks and drives on one end but then barely moves on defense. Repeatedly giving up easy baskets, rebounds or wide open 3pt shots. Walton tries to hide him on defense and he is still exposed due to lack of effort.

The conveniently selective nature of his injuries or efforts is what I find the most maddening. Shouldn't it show up on both ends and not before he was actually injured?

Leadership comes in many forms. Where exactly has he shown any this season? Platitudes at a press conference before the season? Since then....

Lebron got exposed on his poor defense big time this year and the effort was not there. It was upsetting when he called out teammates when he dogged it on defense.The optics are very bad when your leader is sitting at the end of the bench and not taking part in the huddle with the rest of the team.I know a lot of people says it doesn't matter but I think it's sending the wrong message.He is still great on the offensive side and rebounds well but on defense and leadership not good.

Classic Lebron. He allows his man to shoot open 3’s or makes no effort to offer help defense on drives and then throws up his hands and starts voicing frustration to others during the inbound.

It’s only going to get worse when no one wants to play with him and no big names come this summer. I’d hope Magic would realize the blueprint isn’t feasible and move him. Though he prob will just trade the core for some borderline star.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject:

SDLakersFan wrote:


Btw: he lost in the finals with Wade, Bosh, Battier, Ray Allen, and Rashard Lewis



Btw:

Kobe lost in the finals with Shaq, Payton, Malone, and Grant.*

Kevin Durant lost in the finals with Westbrook, Harden and Serge Ibaka.*

Magic lost in the finals with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Wilkes and McAdoo*

Bird lost in the finals with McHale, Johnson, Parish and Walton.

Duncan lost in the finals with Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.

Jerry West lost in the finals with Wilt and Elgin Baylor.

Willis Reed lost in the finals with Frazier, DeBusschere, Lucas, Bradley, and Earl Monroe.#


* Three way tie for teams that lost the finals with most MVP winners on team (3)

# Record for losing the finals with most Hall of Famers on team (6)

Not that I think any of that is a big deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:25 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
SDLakersFan wrote:


Btw: he lost in the finals with Wade, Bosh, Battier, Ray Allen, and Rashard Lewis



Btw:

Kobe lost in the finals with Shaq, Payton, Malone, and Grant.*


Oh context....

Malone wasn't 100%

Quote:

Kevin Durant lost in the finals with Westbrook, Harden and Serge Ibaka.*


Young and inexperienced pre-prime stars lost to experienced and in their prime stars LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade.

Quote:

Magic lost in the finals with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Wilkes and McAdoo*


Yeah they lost to that Bird team, with
Quote:

Bird lost in the finals with McHale, Johnson, Parish and Walton.


^ this Celtics team. Whom went on to lose to that Lakers team. Which means, they were evenly matched, so unsure your point.

Quote:

Duncan lost in the finals with Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.


And then came back and decimated the same team in grand fashion in one of the biggest beatdowns in Finals history. That beatdown was the LeBron team that beat them the previous season.

Quote:

Jerry West lost in the finals with Wilt and Elgin Baylor.


You mean the one with the game where their coach refused to play Wilt in the 4th when he was ready to come back in? Think about if Kerr did that with Steph. Or if Phil did that with Jordan.

Quote:

Willis Reed lost in the finals with Frazier, DeBusschere, Lucas, Bradley, and Earl Monroe.#
.


Lost to a Lakers team they'd beaten prior. So again... evenly matched.

So what was the point of all that?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SDLakersFan wrote:


Btw: he lost in the finals with Wade, Bosh, Battier, Ray Allen, and Rashard Lewis



Btw:

Kobe lost in the finals with Shaq, Payton, Malone, and Grant.*


Oh context....

Malone wasn't 100%

Quote:

Kevin Durant lost in the finals with Westbrook, Harden and Serge Ibaka.*


Young and inexperienced pre-prime stars lost to experienced and in their prime stars LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade.

Quote:

Magic lost in the finals with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Wilkes and McAdoo*


Yeah they lost to that Bird team, with
Quote:

Bird lost in the finals with McHale, Johnson, Parish and Walton.


^ this Celtics team. Whom went on to lose to that Lakers team. Which means, they were evenly matched, so unsure your point.

Quote:

Duncan lost in the finals with Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.


And then came back and decimated the same team in grand fashion in one of the biggest beatdowns in Finals history. That beatdown was the LeBron team that beat them the previous season.

Quote:

Jerry West lost in the finals with Wilt and Elgin Baylor.


You mean the one with the game where their coach refused to play Wilt in the 4th when he was ready to come back in? Think about if Kerr did that with Steph. Or if Phil did that with Jordan.

Quote:

Willis Reed lost in the finals with Frazier, DeBusschere, Lucas, Bradley, and Earl Monroe.#
.


Lost to a Lakers team they'd beaten prior. So again... evenly matched.

So what was the point of all that?


His point was that great players lose too. Didn't think you had to give your explanation on the loses.. which are mildly interesting.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject:

Awesome to take a trip down memory lane with each and every one of those series.

But IMO you guys are missing the point. What does any of that have to do with what we saw from James on and off the court "this" year with this team?

Cherishing James for his lifetime achievements is great. He should be celebrated.

My concern lies in his overall performance this year as a Laker and the heavy reliance on him over the next couple seasons. Despite the awesome stats and monster dunks he was lacking in other key areas.

From that long list of historical NBA greats, did any of them have a season with such obvious disinterest or lack of effort? When Jordan got bored he went to play baseball. Judging greats often comes down to the smallest details. This season does not help James' legacy IMO.

I never want to see another disappointing James season like this one. It is up to him to erase the memory next year.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject:

This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
MJST wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SDLakersFan wrote:


Btw: he lost in the finals with Wade, Bosh, Battier, Ray Allen, and Rashard Lewis



Btw:

Kobe lost in the finals with Shaq, Payton, Malone, and Grant.*


Oh context....

Malone wasn't 100%

Quote:

Kevin Durant lost in the finals with Westbrook, Harden and Serge Ibaka.*


Young and inexperienced pre-prime stars lost to experienced and in their prime stars LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade.

Quote:

Magic lost in the finals with Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Wilkes and McAdoo*


Yeah they lost to that Bird team, with
Quote:

Bird lost in the finals with McHale, Johnson, Parish and Walton.


^ this Celtics team. Whom went on to lose to that Lakers team. Which means, they were evenly matched, so unsure your point.

Quote:

Duncan lost in the finals with Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.


And then came back and decimated the same team in grand fashion in one of the biggest beatdowns in Finals history. That beatdown was the LeBron team that beat them the previous season.

Quote:

Jerry West lost in the finals with Wilt and Elgin Baylor.


You mean the one with the game where their coach refused to play Wilt in the 4th when he was ready to come back in? Think about if Kerr did that with Steph. Or if Phil did that with Jordan.

Quote:

Willis Reed lost in the finals with Frazier, DeBusschere, Lucas, Bradley, and Earl Monroe.#
.


Lost to a Lakers team they'd beaten prior. So again... evenly matched.

So what was the point of all that?


His point was that great players lose too. Didn't think you had to give your explanation on the loses.. which are mildly interesting.


Y'all forgot best regular record in history, MVP, NBA Finals MVP, DPOY, COY, 'Best' bench in the league, 'Best' SG in the league (well arguably that year)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Awesome to take a trip down memory lane with each and every one of those series.

But IMO you guys are missing the point. What does any of that have to do with what we saw from James on and off the court "this" year with this team?
.


Personally, I enjoyed the trip down memory lane. But, yes, we can now return to the same four or five people saying the same thing about Lebron that they've already said 25 times in this thread. Carry on
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Well said!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Awesome to take a trip down memory lane with each and every one of those series.

But IMO you guys are missing the point. What does any of that have to do with what we saw from James on and off the court "this" year with this team?
.


Personally, I enjoyed the trip down memory lane. But, yes, we can now return to the same four or five people saying the same thing about Lebron that they've already said 25 times in this thread. Carry on

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Not as concerned with his recovery physically as I am with his mentality.

Will he buy-in to the a new roster and coaching staff? Will he be emotionally and mentally invested in leading "his team" next year? Off the court and on both ends of it.

Will not matter who they put around him if he is not mentally ready to compete. I may or may not be thrilled with the potential moves this summer. That will be interesting. But the Lakers can not have another season of a distracted and unmotivated James. Simply can't!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Not as concerned with his recovery physically as I am with his mentality.

Will he buy-in to the a new roster and coaching staff? Will he be emotionally and mentally invested in leading "his team" next year? Off the court and on both ends of it.

Will not matter who they put around him if he is not mentally ready to compete. I may or may not be thrilled with the potential moves this summer. That will be interesting. But the Lakers can not have another season of a distracted and unmotivated James. Simply can't!


I can't imagine he will want a repeat of this season. The hope, and it's not a sure thing, is that this season has humbled him and he realizes he needs to change his ways as he ages. Even guys like Nate Duncan/Danny have him as a top 5-6 NBA Player still. So it's not about the talent, but as you said, the effort and leadership. Those things absolutely must change or else his NBA career is toast.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:21 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Not as concerned with his recovery physically as I am with his mentality.

Will he buy-in to the a new roster and coaching staff? Will he be emotionally and mentally invested in leading "his team" next year? Off the court and on both ends of it.

Will not matter who they put around him if he is not mentally ready to compete. I may or may not be thrilled with the potential moves this summer. That will be interesting. But the Lakers can not have another season of a distracted and unmotivated James. Simply can't!


I can't imagine he will want a repeat of this season. The hope, and it's not a sure thing, is that this season has humbled him and he realizes he needs to change his ways as he ages. Even guys like Nate Duncan/Danny have him as a top 5-6 NBA Player still. So it's not about the talent, but as you said, the effort and leadership. Those things absolutely must change or else his NBA career is toast.


The days of Lebron carrying 4 one dimensional players/specialists is over imo.

He needs to realize that he needs one of the big Ks and the yutes playing key supporting roles or the end of his career will smell like burnt bread. From breadcrumbs to burnt bread.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Not as concerned with his recovery physically as I am with his mentality.

Will he buy-in to the a new roster and coaching staff? Will he be emotionally and mentally invested in leading "his team" next year? Off the court and on both ends of it.

Will not matter who they put around him if he is not mentally ready to compete. I may or may not be thrilled with the potential moves this summer. That will be interesting. But the Lakers can not have another season of a distracted and unmotivated James. Simply can't!


I can't imagine he will want a repeat of this season. The hope, and it's not a sure thing, is that this season has humbled him and he realizes he needs to change his ways as he ages. Even guys like Nate Duncan/Danny have him as a top 5-6 NBA Player still. So it's not about the talent, but as you said, the effort and leadership. Those things absolutely must change or else his NBA career is toast.


That is what was disturbingly frustrating about this season. It was not the talent, it was the effort.

I am with you in expecting a difference next year. But I also have a nagging lack of confidence in his ability to do so mentally.

Will he be as competitively "hungry" as he ages? Will that burning drive to win still be there next year, or is he comfortable with his legacy and personal achievements? Is he looking at this past season's criticisms of his flaws with honest self awareness. Or finding the same justifications and excuses that are used by his ardent supporters. If he is saying to himself "it wasn't me" how does he change.

Lakers are invested in this path. They need James to be the franchise leader that had 8 straight Finals appearances. Not the guy we saw this season. Can he still be that guy?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:56 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This season was a major disappointment.

But I actually do think getting 5 months off this summer (instead of the usual 3 months) is going to do wonders for his body. Plus, I do think we will land another all star and the YUTES will develop more over the summer.

It's been a rough roller coaster ride with LBJ as our lead guy. Disappointed. But I actually am looking forward to this offseason and 2019-20.


Not as concerned with his recovery physically as I am with his mentality.

Will he buy-in to the a new roster and coaching staff? Will he be emotionally and mentally invested in leading "his team" next year? Off the court and on both ends of it.

Will not matter who they put around him if he is not mentally ready to compete. I may or may not be thrilled with the potential moves this summer. That will be interesting. But the Lakers can not have another season of a distracted and unmotivated James. Simply can't!


I can't imagine he will want a repeat of this season. The hope, and it's not a sure thing, is that this season has humbled him and he realizes he needs to change his ways as he ages. Even guys like Nate Duncan/Danny have him as a top 5-6 NBA Player still. So it's not about the talent, but as you said, the effort and leadership. Those things absolutely must change or else his NBA career is toast.


That is what was disturbingly frustrating about this season. It was not the talent, it was the effort.

I am with you in expecting a difference next year. But I also have a nagging lack of confidence in his ability to do so mentally.

Will he be as competitively "hungry" as he ages? Will that burning drive to win still be there next year, or is he comfortable with his legacy and personal achievements? Is he looking at this past season's criticisms of his flaws with honest self awareness. Or finding the same justifications and excuses that are used by his ardent supporters. If he is saying to himself "it wasn't me" how does he change.

Lakers are invested in this path. They need James to be the franchise leader that had 8 straight Finals appearances. Not the guy we saw this season. Can he still be that guy?


LeBron has had it rough with us Laker fans. He's heard us. He knows we are a completely different (spoiled, entitled) type of fan base with championship or bust expectations. When he made a vow to end the playoff drought a few days ago, he heard an earful. He doesn't want a repeat of this season.

If there's one thing that diminishes your legacy and your past or magnifies it to greater heights, it's being a Laker. Win or lose, he controls his destiny. I think he knows that. I don't think he realized what he got himself into upon signing here initially, but now I think he does.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject:

https://theundefeated.com/features/lebron-james-lakers-living-his-kingdom-come-season/
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject:

I think LBJ hopefully gets it that he's not going to automatically get the affection of Lakers fans. He has to earn that just like Wilt and other stars who came later in their career did. Let's hope he puts that into practice next season.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:20 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
If there's one thing that diminishes your legacy and your past or magnifies it to greater heights, it's being a Laker.



Personally, I doubt Lebron's stint as a Laker is going to have much impact on his eventual reputation one way or the other.

This is a dicey prediction because you never really know how someone will be viewed in the future. However, I think the odds of the Lakers building a championship team while Lebron is here are pretty low. Winning a ring would be the one thing that would really make a difference.

But I doubt he'll win anymore rings. While people get enraged in the present that we don't make the playoffs or don't go far in the playoffs, that won't be as big a deal decade from now. Players are mostly judged by their accomplishments in their prime, not by the end of their careers. Future generations won't get worked up that the Lakers didn't make the playoffs this year,

The only likely meaningful accomplishment I see for Lebron as a Laker is passing Kareem for most points scored.

However, in the long run, I don't many people will believe he is the GOAT (and surveys indicate not many think he is now). So eventually Lebron will just become another member of the GOAT short list, and people will debate where he falls in the order, though I think it's safe to say he'll be ranked higher by the rest of the world than he will in LG.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
If there's one thing that diminishes your legacy and your past or magnifies it to greater heights, it's being a Laker.



Personally, I doubt Lebron's stint as a Laker is going to have much impact on his eventual reputation one way or the other.

This is a dicey prediction because you never really know how someone will be viewed in the future. However, I think the odds of the Lakers building a championship team while Lebron is here are pretty low. Winning a ring would be the one thing that would really make a difference.

But I doubt he'll win anymore rings. While people get enraged in the present that we don't make the playoffs or don't go far in the playoffs, that won't be as big a deal decade from now. Players are mostly judged by their accomplishments in their prime, not by the end of their careers. Future generations won't get worked up that the Lakers didn't make the playoffs this year,

The only likely meaningful accomplishment I see for Lebron as a Laker is passing Kareem for most points scored.

However, in the long run, I don't many people will believe he is the GOAT (and surveys indicate not many think he is now). So eventually Lebron will just become another member of the GOAT short list, and people will debate where he falls in the order, though I think it's safe to say he'll be ranked higher by the rest of the world than he will in LG.


I agree that this season won't have much weight on his legacy. We would have to evaluate his whole tenure here. That said, I really do believe if LeBron can win here, he will viewed almost unanimously as the GOAT because he won with 3 different franchises. If he doesn't win, then he will be the only Laker star to not deliver a championship (exception of Baylor who retired in '72).

LeBron cares about this, that's why he downplays that he has anything to prove. It's a safety net in case he doesn't win. He knows he has to.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
That said, I really do believe if LeBron can win here, he will viewed almost unanimously as the GOAT because he won with 3 different franchises. If he doesn't win, then he will be the only Laker star to not deliver a championship (exception of Baylor who retired in '72). .



I don't agree that winning a ring here is a sure pathway to consensus GOAT for Lebron. There was a recent survey that found something like 66% of NBA fans thought MJ was the GOAT and only 11% thought Lebron was -- that's a huge gulf that I don't think one more ring would close. Another ring would stir up debate, though, and probably make Lebron the consensus #2.

If he doesn't win here, people will shrug. He'll just be an older superstar who came to a weak team at the end of his career. No one in the future will be wondering how he couldn't win a ring with Ball, Ingram and Kuz.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
That said, I really do believe if LeBron can win here, he will viewed almost unanimously as the GOAT because he won with 3 different franchises. If he doesn't win, then he will be the only Laker star to not deliver a championship (exception of Baylor who retired in '72). .



I don't agree that winning a ring here is a sure pathway to consensus GOAT for Lebron. There was a recent survey that found something like 66% of NBA fans thought MJ was the GOAT and only 11% thought Lebron was -- that's a huge gulf that I don't think one more ring would close. Another ring would stir up debate, though, and probably make Lebron the consensus #2.

If he doesn't win here, people will shrug. He'll just be an older superstar who came to a weak team at the end of his career. No one in the future will be wondering how he couldn't win a ring with Ball, Ingram and Kuz.


Fair. Let's just see what kind of roster we construct then. If he ends up with two all-stars by his side, then it's a different story.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
That said, I really do believe if LeBron can win here, he will viewed almost unanimously as the GOAT because he won with 3 different franchises. If he doesn't win, then he will be the only Laker star to not deliver a championship (exception of Baylor who retired in '72). .



I don't agree that winning a ring here is a sure pathway to consensus GOAT for Lebron. There was a recent survey that found something like 66% of NBA fans thought MJ was the GOAT and only 11% thought Lebron was -- that's a huge gulf that I don't think one more ring would close. Another ring would stir up debate, though, and probably make Lebron the consensus #2.

If he doesn't win here, people will shrug. He'll just be an older superstar who came to a weak team at the end of his career. No one in the future will be wondering how he couldn't win a ring with Ball, Ingram and Kuz.


Fair. Let's just see what kind of roster we construct then. If he ends up with two all-stars by his side, then it's a different story.



No matter what matters, it will be hard to gauge what it will mean until many years later when the emotions of the moment have quelled.

I hope the Lakers land some free agents and do well. But I am indifferent to what it might mean to Lebron's "legacy." I don't really care all that much how people think MJ. Kobe, Lebron, Wilt, Kareem, etc. stack up to each other other than having a mild intellectual interest in the reasoning behind the arguments for and against the different guys.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:53 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
That said, I really do believe if LeBron can win here, he will viewed almost unanimously as the GOAT because he won with 3 different franchises. If he doesn't win, then he will be the only Laker star to not deliver a championship (exception of Baylor who retired in '72). .



I don't agree that winning a ring here is a sure pathway to consensus GOAT for Lebron. There was a recent survey that found something like 66% of NBA fans thought MJ was the GOAT and only 11% thought Lebron was -- that's a huge gulf that I don't think one more ring would close. Another ring would stir up debate, though, and probably make Lebron the consensus #2.

If he doesn't win here, people will shrug. He'll just be an older superstar who came to a weak team at the end of his career. No one in the future will be wondering how he couldn't win a ring with Ball, Ingram and Kuz.


Fair. Let's just see what kind of roster we construct then. If he ends up with two all-stars by his side, then it's a different story.



No matter what matters, it will be hard to gauge what it will mean until many years later when the emotions of the moment have quelled.

I hope the Lakers land some free agents and do well. But I am indifferent to what it might mean to Lebron's "legacy." I don't really care all that much how people think MJ. Kobe, Lebron, Wilt, Kareem, etc. stack up to each other other than having a mild intellectual interest in the reasoning behind the arguments for and against the different guys.



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