Sure we could get lucky or we could get unlucky, that is why they play the games. Lebron knows he beat a Durant-less team with some players hurt/suspended. And he knows he had no chance against a healthy team with Durant. And Durant is who takes that team from great to possibly the GOAT. I think that his actions and comments show that he is at piece with that. He seems to be one of those guys who won't play until he is 38-39. Some chinks in the armor showed last season, I think once it becomes a grind he walks away. That is why I hope he finishes it out here and let things develop as they will.
Chinks in the armor? Dude averaged nearly a triple double in the Finals.
It wasn't his fault they lost; the Warriors benefitted from a historic cap spike. Arguably, sans KD, Cavs were on par with the Warriors as they beat them the year before (and the year b/f that they lost Kyrie and basically Love to injuries in the Finals).
You make it sound like the Warriors are the par for the course, that there are several Warriors teams lurking around and the Lakers with LBJ/PG13 will struggle to get out of round 1. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Sure we could get lucky or we could get unlucky, that is why they play the games. Lebron knows he beat a Durant-less team with some players hurt/suspended. And he knows he had no chance against a healthy team with Durant. And Durant is who takes that team from great to possibly the GOAT. I think that his actions and comments show that he is at piece with that. He seems to be one of those guys who won't play until he is 38-39. Some chinks in the armor showed last season, I think once it becomes a grind he walks away. That is why I hope he finishes it out here and let things develop as they will.
Chinks in the armor? Dude averaged nearly a triple double in the Finals.
It wasn't his fault they lost; the Warriors benefitted from a historic cap spike. Arguably, sans KD, Cavs were on par with the Warriors as they beat them the year before (and the year b/f that they lost Kyrie and basically Love to injuries in the Finals).
You make it sound like the Warriors are the par for the course, that there are several Warriors teams lurking around and the Lakers with LBJ/PG13 will struggle to get out of round 1.
He might've averaged a tripple-double but stats can be very misleading. He was horrendous on defense and got owned by pretty much every player he in turn had owned the previous Finals (where he played elite championship defense). Durant lit him up all series long and stuck that 3-point dagger in his face that will be replayed in his personal highlight reel until the end of times. Curry got him with the Houdini crossover that made him look silly. Even Iggy got multiple uncontested dunks off of LeBron's lazy defense.
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
Magic won his first title in what would have been his junior year of college, Lonzo will be entering the same in 2018-19. Ervin teamed with a 32 year future HOFer to do it. Perhaps comparing Magic to Lonzo is a stretch, but how about this one.
In 2008 the Celtics beat the Lakers with a second year, 21 year old starting PG, Rajon Rondo. He was a key part of their team and they likely wouldn't have won without him.
I don't think its entirely out of the question to consider such a pairing a championship contender, but by April we'll know.
Last edited by kevin61 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
That's your opinion. But if the Lakers are able to keep KCP along with LBJ, PG and Ingram they would match up well defensively. Stick PG on Durant, KCP on Steph, LBJ on Green, Ingram on Klay and Ball on Iggy. I like that a lot.
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
Magic won his first title in what would have been his junior year of college, Lonzo will be entering the same in 2018-19. Ervin teamed with a 32 year future HOFer to do it. Maybe comparing Magic to Lonzo is a stretch, I agree, but how about this one.
In 2008 the Celtics beat the Lakers with a second year, 21 year old starting PG, Rajon Rondo. He was a key part of their team and they likely wouldn't have won without him.
So I don't think its entirely out of the question to consider such a pairing as a championship contender. In April we'll all know.
Yeah. Kahwai won the Finals MVP at age 23, was a key part of the Spurs Finals team at age 22. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
The youth of BI and Lonzo is so overstated that it's almost becoming irritating at this point. In the first year of a Lonzo/George/Ingram/LeBron core, Ingram would be in his third season for crying out loud. He wouldn't exactly have similac on his breath still. I expect him to make a big leap this year compared to last year. Third year? Look out.
And Lonzo, though his first year with that core would only be his second in the league overall, players with the kind of potential that he has are in a different category altogether than typical second year players. A second year version of him will still be dynamic since he'll have that crucial first year experience under his belt. He's a pretty fast learner with an excellent basketball IQ.
And just as some of us have said numerous times by now, the experience of playing with LeBron and George and being their little star pupils will expediate their development, if anything. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Last edited by Judah on Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
The youth of BI and Lonzo is so overstated that it's almost becoming irritating at this point. In the first year of a Lonzo/George/Ingram/LeBron core, Ingram would be in his third season for crying out loud. He wouldn't exactly have similac on his breath still. I expect him to make a big leap this year compared to last year. Third year? Look out.
And Lonzo, though his first year with that core would only be his second, players with the kind of potential that he has are in a different category altogether than typical second year players. A second year version of him will still be dynamic since he'll have that crucial first year experience under his belt. He's a pretty fast learner with an excellent basketball IQ.
And just as some of us have said numerous times by now, the experience of playing with LeBron and George and being their little star pupils will expediate their development, if anything.
Exactly.
The question is, in year 2 (Lonzo) and year 3 (Ingram), can they be a #3 or #4 on a contending team?
I think they can. And if Brook stays on a cheap 1 year deal, then they can be #4 or #5 options at worst. They can absolutely do that. Rondo. Kahwai at under age 23 were doing that for NBA Finals teams. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
The youth of BI and Lonzo is so overstated that it's almost becoming irritating at this point. In the first year of a Lonzo/George/Ingram/LeBron core, Ingram would be in his third season for crying out loud. He wouldn't exactly have similac on his breath still. I expect him to make a big leap this year compared to last year. Third year? Look out.
And Lonzo, though his first year with that core would only be his second, players with the kind of potential that he has are in a different category altogether than typical second year players. A second year version of him will still be dynamic since he'll have that crucial first year experience under his belt. He's a pretty fast learner with an excellent basketball IQ.
And just as some of us have said numerous times by now, the experience of playing with LeBron and George and being their little star pupils will expediate their development, if anything.
Exactly.
The question is, in year 2 (Lonzo) and year 3 (Ingram), can they be a #3 or #4 on a contending team?
I think they can. And if Brook stays on a cheap 1 year deal, then they can be #4 or #5 options at worst. They can absolutely do that. Rondo. Kahwai at under age 23 were doing that for NBA Finals teams.
Id put money on it that they can and will.
This season is much more important than many realize. If the team doesn't play well and can't attract elite FA's, then slowly the available cap space will be consumed by players coming off rookie deals. To acquire max contracts we'll be forced to dispose of those players and as a consequence, weaken our asset base.
July 2018 offers a unique opportunity to add elite players without significantly depleting our assets. It's our last chance to have our cake and eat it too.
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team?
I think you're setting the bar to low on #5. Kuzma, Nance and Zubac need to show they could be potential starters. Unless you're a key six man, role players can be replaced.
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team?
I think you're setting the bar to low on #5. Kuzma, Nance and Zubac need to show they could be potential starters. Unless you're a key six man, role players can be replaced.
They're on such minimal deals that the bar is low. JC/Jules/Brook/KCP have more sizeable contracts/cap holds that they have to prove more. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
Stop being obtuse. You know what I was saying. Why did the Warriors blow a 3-1 lead? Why couldn't Steph Curry shake Delly? Why couldn't the great Klay Thompson score on JR Smith? KD is the alpha on that team, and he is easily their best player, but it's silly to suggest that our guys couldn't guard them.
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
Stop being obtuse. You know what I was saying. Why did the Warriors blow a 3-1 lead? Why couldn't Steph Curry shake Delly? Why couldn't the great Klay Thompson score on JR Smith? KD is the alpha on that team, and he is easily their best player, but it's silly to suggest that our guys couldn't guard them.
I'm going to give you thumbs up for just using the word obtuse. VLF does seem to float in that direction at times.
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team?
I think you're setting the bar to low on #5. Kuzma, Nance and Zubac need to show they could be potential starters. Unless you're a key six man, role players can be replaced.
They're on such minimal deals that the bar is low. JC/Jules/Brook/KCP have more sizeable contracts/cap holds that they have to prove more.
Nance and Zubac will be eligible in 2019 for substantial raises. If the team needs to add FA's they will likely need to go.
KCP is gone.
If he isn't, then we've settled and the future isn't bright.
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team?
I think you're setting the bar to low on #5. Kuzma, Nance and Zubac need to show they could be potential starters. Unless you're a key six man, role players can be replaced.
They're on such minimal deals that the bar is low. JC/Jules/Brook/KCP have more sizeable contracts/cap holds that they have to prove more.
Nance and Zubac will be eligible in 2019 for substantial raises. If the team needs to add FA's they will likely need to go.
KCP is gone.
If he isn't, then we've settled and the future isn't bright.
Sure, but my post was about THIS upcoming season, not the next season.
If we were talking about 2018-19, I agree. But I'm talking about 2017-18. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject:
Wildchild027 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
W
Stop being obtuse. You know what I was saying. Why did the Warriors blow a 3-1 lead? Why couldn't Steph Curry shake Delly? Why couldn't the great Klay Thompson score on JR Smith? KD is the alpha on that team, and he is easily their best player, but it's silly to suggest that our guys couldn't guard them.
Me being obtuse? They didn't blow a 3-1 lead, they won the series 4-1. Unless you are trying to say that adding Durant was no big deal for them. Who guards KD? Curry? Thompson? Green? And probably Iggy? PG would be the best choice for two of them, but can only guard one. Lebron showed last Finals that trying to guard KD took everything out of him. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The upcoming season is a big-time audition for so many players:
1. Lonzo/Ingram: can they attract 2 max level players in 2018?
2. Brook/KCP: is there any way for them to impress enough to stay in 2018?
3. Jules: can he play himself into staying in 2018?
4. JC: same as #3, but likely less so.
5. Kuz/Hart/Nance/Zubac/Bryant/Ennis: can they show enough to become reliable role players on a 2018+ beyond team?
I think you're setting the bar to low on #5. Kuzma, Nance and Zubac need to show they could be potential starters. Unless you're a key six man, role players can be replaced.
They're on such minimal deals that the bar is low. JC/Jules/Brook/KCP have more sizeable contracts/cap holds that they have to prove more.
Nance and Zubac will be eligible in 2019 for substantial raises. If the team needs to add FA's they will likely need to go.
KCP is gone.
If he isn't, then we've settled and the future isn't bright.
Sure, but my post was about THIS upcoming season, not the next season.
If we were talking about 2018-19, I agree. But I'm talking about 2017-18.
We've gone far a field on many occasions, but OK.
Last edited by kevin61 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
W
Stop being obtuse. You know what I was saying. Why did the Warriors blow a 3-1 lead? Why couldn't Steph Curry shake Delly? Why couldn't the great Klay Thompson score on JR Smith? KD is the alpha on that team, and he is easily their best player, but it's silly to suggest that our guys couldn't guard them.
Me being obtuse? They didn't blow a 3-1 lead, they won the series 4-1. Unless you are trying to say that adding Durant was no big deal for them. Who guards KD? Curry? Thompson? Green? And probably Iggy? PG would be the best choice for two of them, but can only guard one. Lebron showed last Finals that trying to guard KD took everything out of him.
I mean lbj had a team full of perimeter defensive stoppers like Irving, jr, love, Korvee, dwll. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
This dispute over who guards who in the 2019 playoffs is a bit far fetched. When you add two superstar players to an already good team you work those things out. Maybe you have to trade a guy to make it work, who knows. The point is the talent pool on the team is so great that you're able to make adjustments as necessary.
If you can own a Ferrari, you can maintain a Ferrari. You don't sweat the little details.
All of these "styles of play" and "personnel" decisions will change after Lonzo kills it and wins rookie of the year. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:10 pm Post subject:
kevin61 wrote:
This dispute over who guards who in the 2019 playoffs is a bit far fetched. When you add two superstar players to an already good team you work those things out. Maybe you have to trade a guy to make it work, who knows. The point is the talent pool on the team is so great that you're able to make adjustments as necessary.
If you can own a Ferrari, you can maintain a Ferrari. You don't sweat the little details.
It's the dead part of the offseason, we need something semi interesting to discuss _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
This dispute over who guards who in the 2019 playoffs is a bit far fetched. When you add two superstar players to an already good team you work those things out. Maybe you have to trade a guy to make it work, who knows. The point is the talent pool on the team is so great that you're able to make adjustments as necessary.
If you can own a Ferrari, you can maintain a Ferrari. You don't sweat the little details.
It's the dead part of the offseason, we need something semi interesting to discuss
This dispute over who guards who in the 2019 playoffs is a bit far fetched. When you add two superstar players to an already good team you work those things out. Maybe you have to trade a guy to make it work, who knows. The point is the talent pool on the team is so great that you're able to make adjustments as necessary.
If you can own a Ferrari, you can maintain a Ferrari. You don't sweat the little details.
It's the dead part of the offseason, we need something semi interesting to discuss
Can't wait until Training Camp starts so we can begin discussing player attitudes by their body language in the layup line. Things are getting a bit thin around here.
I don't think the Lakers intend to tinker around with a slow rebuild. Ingram/Lonzo will need years to hit pre-prime, let alone prime.
Agree, and that is why the idea of adding two virtual NBA babies to two stars and expecting title contention is fine for fans, but it is doubtful that the oddsmakers would agree.
You act like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green can't be guarded. If they were as good as you claim, they wouldn't have struggled in the playoffs.
I am saying Ingram, George and Lebron would have trouble guarding the Warriors closing team. And those mighty struggles resulted in a 16-1 playoff record.
W
Stop being obtuse. You know what I was saying. Why did the Warriors blow a 3-1 lead? Why couldn't Steph Curry shake Delly? Why couldn't the great Klay Thompson score on JR Smith? KD is the alpha on that team, and he is easily their best player, but it's silly to suggest that our guys couldn't guard them.
Me being obtuse? They didn't blow a 3-1 lead, they won the series 4-1. Unless you are trying to say that adding Durant was no big deal for them. Who guards KD? Curry? Thompson? Green? And probably Iggy? PG would be the best choice for two of them, but can only guard one. Lebron showed last Finals that trying to guard KD took everything out of him.
We clearly are talking about two different things. It's you, who made the statement that we couldn't guard the Warriors. I'm asking you who guarded the Warriors when they blew a 3-1 lead in the 2016 finals. I'm asking you, which defensive stoppers did the Cavs have when Steph Curry was 6-19 in Game 7. Which defensive stoppers did the Cavs have when Klay was 6-17 in Game 7. Which defensive stoppers did the Cavs have when Iggy was 2-6?
Again, you have overrated the greatest of the Warriors. They are GREAT TEAM, but they don't have a lot of GREAT ONE ON ONE players.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:00 am Post subject:
kevin61 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
This dispute over who guards who in the 2019 playoffs is a bit far fetched. When you add two superstar players to an already good team you work those things out. Maybe you have to trade a guy to make it work, who knows. The point is the talent pool on the team is so great that you're able to make adjustments as necessary.
If you can own a Ferrari, you can maintain a Ferrari. You don't sweat the little details.
It's the dead part of the offseason, we need something semi interesting to discuss
Can't wait until Training Camp starts so we can begin discussing player attitudes by their body language in the layup line. Things are getting a bit thin around here.
Especially after that first preseason game _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
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