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Cyberfreak444
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


I have LeBron in the same place as you do - third behind 1) Jordan and 2) Kareem. Those are the three greatest players in history when combining peak greatness, playoff dominance, and sustained excellence. All three of those guys were the consensus best player in the NBA for a decade long period, something that no other players can actually say (Magic and Bird traded the best player in the world title back and forth through the 1980s, Shaq and Duncan and Kobe each held that title at various points between 1999 and 2010, Wilt and Russell battled over being the best in the world in the 1960s, etc).

But for me LeBron winning another championship or two isn’t going to put him above MJ. And not because of the silly stuff that people cite like his Finals record (irrational critics act like it would have been better for him not to make the Finals and ignore that he faced all time great teams in the Finals and was nearly always the underdog). It’s just that I still think peak dominance is the most important criteria in ranking greatness - like how great someone was at their absolute apex. Even though LeBron is better in year 17 than anyone else was at that point in their careers, Jordan at his absolute peak was completely unstoppable on both ends. LeBron at his peak was a (bleep) monster, but Jordan was a force unlike anything we’ve ever seen in league history. LeBron winning at this stage of his career would be impressive, but it wouldn’t undo how great Jordan played at his very best - a level which in my opinion no other player has ever reached.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Imaging being Lebron James right now. Having to be the face of the Lakers and answering questions about Kobe that probably 1000 people are better qualified to answer. It’s very unfair for Lebron to keep being asked the same things about Kobe over and over again. Rob knows Kobe better than anyone, but he can hide from the media. Lebron can’t. Beside Instagram, Jeanie doesn’t have to say a word until she’s ready. Why should Lebron have to say anything Kobe related? He has things in his life that has to get done as well. Family, friends, businesses, training, conditioning, practices, being a team leader, playing basketball, being the face of the Lakers, cementing his legacy, and brining a champion to LA.

If Lebron was there cool. If he wasn’t there cool. All his best friends were there. If Lebron couldn’t find comfort in RP, Wade, Davis, etc... Then we know Kobe’s death is effecting him more than you or I could ever understand.


Lebron also didn't have to go the extremes he did with the his niece GIGI. I sure he is hurt like most, but he inflated their relationship when it wasn't needed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject:

His FT shooting is becoming a bigger and bigger hurdle between us and a chip.
I think it's why he's settled for jumpshots late in games against top tier competition. Like when he got stripped trying to shoot over Pat Beverly. Late in games, even when he can bully his way to the basket and/or FT line. He settles.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
We saw that gear last season

c'mon VLF, he wasn't even in the playoff last season. Do you think LeBron improve his play in the playoff or not


We will have to wait and see
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
We saw that gear last season


I hear what you're saying, but I'm hoping it was the groin that prevented him from fulfilling that "playoff mode" promise last year and that he can elevate his game this year.


I am sure that the groin had something to do with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.
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Cyberfreak444
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


To me, that's just a boring way of looking at it. It's like listing the 10 best players of all time "in no particular order." The posting equivalent of not keeping score so nobody loses. And, of course, nobody wins. And thus nobody cares.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?

Tatum and Embiid got a chance too, first to the ring get the first shout out
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?

Tatum and Embiid got a chance too, first to the ring get the first shout out

Now is Giannis's time IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:39 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
governator wrote:
Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?

Tatum and Embiid got a chance too, first to the ring get the first shout out

Now is Giannis's time IMO.

We forgot AD too, it's AD's time!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
kikanga wrote:
governator wrote:
Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?

Tatum and Embiid got a chance too, first to the ring get the first shout out

Now is Giannis's time IMO.

We forgot AD too, it's AD's time!!!

Crazy to think one has a 32 PER and the other a 28. Truly historical numbers.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject:

We should be seeing Durant's best years. Thanks to GS. We won't see pre-Achilles Durant try to prove he's a level better than the rest.

Crazy to think. Nobody thought twice about Kawhi being the best in the world before Durant's achilles injury. That one quarter he played in the finals last year. Kawhi looked insignificant by comparison. And Kawhi had just punked Giannis.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
We should be seeing Durant's best years. Thanks to GS. We won't see pre-Achilles Durant try to prove he's a level better than the rest.

Crazy to think. Nobody thought twice about Kawhi being the best in the world before Durant's achilles injury. That one quarter he played in the finals last year. Kawhi looked insignificant by comparison. And Kawhi had just punked Giannis.


KD might never be the same defender as before, but he still has that length and that high release point and he'll still have that one legged, midrange fadeaway that'll pretty much make him unguardable.

I'm expecting him to return next year as the premier scorer in the NBA
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:35 pm    Post subject:

When asked about eliteness in the NBA etc.. Kobe said it was Durant who gave him the most trouble guarding because of his length and skill on release etc
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We should be seeing Durant's best years. Thanks to GS. We won't see pre-Achilles Durant try to prove he's a level better than the rest.

Crazy to think. Nobody thought twice about Kawhi being the best in the world before Durant's achilles injury. That one quarter he played in the finals last year. Kawhi looked insignificant by comparison. And Kawhi had just punked Giannis.


KD might never be the same defender as before, but he still has that length and that high release point and he'll still have that one legged, midrange fadeaway that'll pretty much make him unguardable.

I'm expecting him to return next year as the premier scorer in the NBA


Gotta see if he can walk & run normally, first.

Bernard King tore his ACL at 28 and missed the better part of 2 seasons. He made it back to All-Star status, but was no where near the player that he had been (especially in the open court). But he basically averaged >21 PPG for 4 seasons, post injury.

'Nique's ACL injury was at 32. He missed half a season and came back to post the 2nd highest average of his career - but he was much more of a jump shooter post injury. Of course, he was 33-34 years old and that may be part of a natural progression.

And as you noted, part of coming back is seeing if he can defend a position. Maybe he becomes a 5?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
His FT shooting is becoming a bigger and bigger hurdle between us and a chip.
I think it's why he's settled for jumpshots late in games against top tier competition. Like when he got stripped trying to shoot over Pat Beverly. Late in games, even when he can bully his way to the basket and/or FT line. He settles.


AD was surprisingly the one I noticed missing the clutch free throws last game but yeah, Rondo and LeBron missed a few as well. So far this year, I can’t think of a single loss that came down to free throw shooting. Typically they’re pretty good and they also tend to shoot way more than their opponents down the stretch of close games.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:58 pm    Post subject:

Don't they have a stat for free throw clutchness?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?


Right now I would guess Luka.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Cyberfreak444 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
32 wrote:
If LeBron can lead the Lakers to a championship I will crown him the GOAT. I don't say this lightly because I still have Jordan and Kareem ahead of him. In addition to all of his impressive individual stats and awards he would have led three franchises to a championship as the best player. That has never been done before and would be an incredible accomplishment.


Lebron is the GOAT of his generation, Kobe/TD of the previous generation. Jordan before that, Magic before that, Kareem before that. Lebron’s generation is ending, it will be fun seeing who is the GOAT of the next generation.


Honestly that’s a nice way to look at it. If you had to pick, who do you think will be the next generation’s best player? Giannis? Luka? Zion? Someone else?


Right now I would guess Luka.


He has the talent, certainly, but he seems (to me) like a guy who will miss a lot of games. Generational players usually stay on the court.

Of the guys under 25, Jayson Tatum leads in Jersey sales, but I hope it's not him!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
kikanga wrote:
His FT shooting is becoming a bigger and bigger hurdle between us and a chip.
I think it's why he's settled for jumpshots late in games against top tier competition. Like when he got stripped trying to shoot over Pat Beverly. Late in games, even when he can bully his way to the basket and/or FT line. He settles.


AD was surprisingly the one I noticed missing the clutch free throws last game but yeah, Rondo and LeBron missed a few as well. So far this year, I can’t think of a single loss that came down to free throw shooting. Typically they’re pretty good and they also tend to shoot way more than their opponents down the stretch of close games.


I can link multiple losses this season to top tier teams with LBJ's lack of confidence at the line.
He has the ability to attack the basket better than anybody (maybe ever) in the league. But late in the 4th quarter he's been avoiding it. Because of his lack of confidence at the line.
I'm fine with giving it to AD to shoot clutch FTs for us late when we have the lead. But LBJ avoiding the line and settling for pullups (in general) late in the 4th is not preferable.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Don't they have a stat for free throw clutchness?


If they do, I'd love to see it.
And more importantly, I'd like to see attempts in the paint in the 4th quarter by LBJ in losses.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Hero Ball wrote:
Don't they have a stat for free throw clutchness?


I don't think there's any official agreed-upon definition of clutch situations, though different people use being up or down X number of points with X number of minutes to play.

if you Google, it's easy enough to find articles from last season where various people determined LeBron was a poor free-throw air in clutch situations as they defined clutch

How significant that is, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's fair to say he is an average or slightly below-average free thrower for his position
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:38 pm    Post subject:

Year 17.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Beast mode!
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