The LEBRON JAMES Thread - Give The Man His RESPECT!
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
danzag wrote:
The Lakers considers Elgin Baylor a champion and gave him a ring for the 71-72 season. So he checks both boxes.

LeBron won't have his jersey retired if he doesn't win a championship.


Lots of people who weren't champions have been given rings. Heck, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the team they beat (the Cavs traded him mid season).

The bottom line there is no official criteria for who the Lakers retire.

There is only a tradition that we only retired players who are Hall of Famers.

But the Lakers can retire whoever they want.


Yeah but lots of players have rings. They aren’t championship rings they’re wedding rings but I’m just stating facts. Context is meaningless.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:18 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:23 pm    Post subject:

I really hope Lebron can close the deal. His Laker legacy would be cemented and his jersey will be hanging from the rafters.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:24 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
activeverb wrote:
danzag wrote:
The Lakers considers Elgin Baylor a champion and gave him a ring for the 71-72 season. So he checks both boxes.

LeBron won't have his jersey retired if he doesn't win a championship.


Lots of people who weren't champions have been given rings. Heck, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the team they beat (the Cavs traded him mid season).

The bottom line there is no official criteria for who the Lakers retire.

There is only a tradition that we only retired players who are Hall of Famers.

But the Lakers can retire whoever they want.


Yeah but lots of players have rings. They aren’t championship rings they’re wedding rings but I’m just stating facts. Context is meaningless.


I guess if you have a ring around the bath tube that's good enough then.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
I really hope Lebron can close the deal. His Laker legacy would be cemented and his jersey will be hanging from the rafters.


Both Lebron and AD granted AD stays with us for a while
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:26 pm    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
I really hope Lebron can close the deal. His Laker legacy would be cemented and his jersey will be hanging from the rafters.


Both Lebron and AD granted AD stays with us for a while


For sure.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:27 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
ocho wrote:
activeverb wrote:
danzag wrote:
The Lakers considers Elgin Baylor a champion and gave him a ring for the 71-72 season. So he checks both boxes.

LeBron won't have his jersey retired if he doesn't win a championship.


Lots of people who weren't champions have been given rings. Heck, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the team they beat (the Cavs traded him mid season).

The bottom line there is no official criteria for who the Lakers retire.

There is only a tradition that we only retired players who are Hall of Famers.

But the Lakers can retire whoever they want.


Yeah but lots of players have rings. They aren’t championship rings they’re wedding rings but I’m just stating facts. Context is meaningless.


I guess if you have a ring around the bath tube that's good enough then.


Official: if Lebron gets ringworm he will be HOF eligible.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
No rebounds...no ring.

No ring...no rafters.

No exceptions...

Cant be a Laker great without the hardware.


Let's take Baylor out of the equation, since people disagree on whether or not he won a ring. Here's the flaw with your theory.

There has never been a player who had a substantial career with the Lakers who made the Hall of Fame that didn't win a ring with us.

So we have no idea if the Lakers would have retired a Hall of Famer who had a lengthy career for us without winning a ring, because no such player exists.

You are assuming a ring is part of the Lakers criteria. But we don't know that, because there is no official criteria. You may be right in your assumption, you may be wrong. Who knows?


Last edited by activeverb on Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


The Lakers have a high standard but Elgin Baylor is one of the best players ever and he spent his entire career with the Lakers. He does not need ring to cement his greatness.

Mitch Richmond is on HOF and won a ring with us. If that’s the criteria, his retired jersey will be in our rafters.


Last edited by CRoost on Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


The Lakers have a high standard but Elgin Baylor is one of the best players ever and he spent his entire career with the Lakers. He does not need ring to cement his greatness.


The Lakers could have decided not to give Elgin a ring, and he could have easily declined it since he wasn't on the team except for a few games.

The presumption that either thing would have prevented the Lakers from retiring his jersey seems silly to me.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject:

It's like... Can't I just enjoy LeBron in the finals as a Laker first? Haha
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:53 pm    Post subject:

Imagine thinking the Lakers won't retire Lebron ****ing James' jersey
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CRoost wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


The Lakers have a high standard but Elgin Baylor is one of the best players ever and he spent his entire career with the Lakers. He does not need ring to cement his greatness.


The Lakers could have decided not to give Elgin a ring, and he could have easily declined it since he wasn't on the team except for a few games.

The presumption that either thing would have prevented the Lakers from retiring his jersey seems silly to me.

One poster said you had to win a ring to have your jersey retired then twisted the definition of the word “win” when confronted with evidence to the contrary. That’s all this discussion is.

No one is contesting the legitimacy or greatness of Elgin Baylor.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
Orlando will retire Dwight's uniform. He spent eight years with that organization and he led them to an NBA finals.


They havent yet retired anyone's jersey. 1 trip to the finals lead to a retired jersey??? I think the Magic may be as stringent with this as us. They just dont have the rich history.


I had to Google it because I didn’t believe it. The fact that Orlando hasn’t retired Shaq’s jersey is shameful.


I could have sworn that Orlando had retired Nick Anderson and Shaq jerseys. How about the Heat? did they retire Shaq #32?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject:

ksmgf wrote:
ocho wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
Orlando will retire Dwight's uniform. He spent eight years with that organization and he led them to an NBA finals.


They havent yet retired anyone's jersey. 1 trip to the finals lead to a retired jersey??? I think the Magic may be as stringent with this as us. They just dont have the rich history.


I had to Google it because I didn’t believe it. The fact that Orlando hasn’t retired Shaq’s jersey is shameful.


I could have sworn that Orlando had retired Nick Anderson and Shaq jerseys. How about the Heat? did they retire Shaq #32?


The Heat did indeed retire Shaq’s #32.

The Magic have only 1 retired number. #6. Which stands for sixth man aka The Fans. And yes, that’s the lamest (bleep) I’ve ever heard of too.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject:

ksmgf wrote:
ocho wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
Orlando will retire Dwight's uniform. He spent eight years with that organization and he led them to an NBA finals.


They havent yet retired anyone's jersey. 1 trip to the finals lead to a retired jersey??? I think the Magic may be as stringent with this as us. They just dont have the rich history.


I had to Google it because I didn’t believe it. The fact that Orlando hasn’t retired Shaq’s jersey is shameful.


I could have sworn that Orlando had retired Nick Anderson and Shaq jerseys. How about the Heat? did they retire Shaq #32?


Yes, the Heat retired Shaq.

The only jersey Orlando has retired is "the sixth man," which I guess is the fans.

Now, Orlando is weird. They do have a "Hall of Fame," which includes Shaq, Penny Hardaway, and a few other players. Maybe that is what they do in lieu of retiring jerseys. So they have acknowledged his contribution to the franchise.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


I'm simply stating facts and too many of you are taking issue with facts so let me put them in the form of close-ended questions.

1. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that don't have at least 1 ring?

2. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that aren't in the Hall of Fame?

3. Was any of this back and forth about Elgin?

The answer to all 3 questions is No.

The original question was whether or not any Lakers in the rafters didn't have a ring.

The answer to that is No as well.

You can debate Elgin all day but here's the list

Kobe 8 & 24 - 5 Rings, HoF
Magic 32 - 5 Rings, HoF
Cap 33 - 5 Rings with Lakers 6 overall, HoF
Big Game 42 - 3 Rings, HoF
Shaq 34 - 3 Rings with Lakers 4 overall, HoF
Silk 52 - 3 Rings, HoF
West 44 - 1 Ring MVP of 1969 Finals, HoF
Wilt 13 - 1 Ring, HoF
Goodrich - 1 Ring, HoF
Elgin - 1 Ring that everyone has a problem with, HoF
Chick - 9 Rings, HoF

Is there a strict criteria for who gets into the rafters? Who knows, ask Jeannie.

Why isn't Mitch Ritchmond up there? Because who gets retired is subjective, up to the discretion of the Lakers organization, he played only 1 season and averaged 4.1 points even though he won a ring with us.

Now lets compare that to Elgin...

14 seasons, averaged 27.4 points and 13.5 rebounds even though his last 2 seasons were marred by injuries that forced him to retire during the early stages of the championship season.

Since he retired do to injury he was still a part of that team, and just like any other injured player he got a ring for being a part of that team even though he was unable to play.

Why? Because that's how it's done in all of professional sports. Heck, even players that get traded away in season sometimes get a ring.

Did he earn it? I don't care.

Does he deserve to be in the rafters without it? Yes.

Is there any Laker in the rafters currently without a ring? No.

The first 2 are subjective the last is objective...it is a fact.

Facts don't have feelings.

Call this trolling if you want. And I'll call it lack of objectivity or comprehension and we can both move on and enjoy us hoisting number 17 if we're so lucky to be able to in the coming days.

I'm not attempting to be right...I'm simply stating facts.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:24 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think he’s already punched his ticket to the rafters before the Finals begin.


Any on our rafter ringless as a Lakers?


Here's the original question that I answered correctly that has Ocho & Beir32 up in arms over nothing. Beir32, I'm very well aware of what I said and stand by it, no need to put words in my mouth over such a minor issue.

The answer is no...everyone in the rafters has at least 1 ring and is in the HoF.

Elgin has a ring. Facts don't have feelings.

Would Jeannie not admit LBJ to the rafters after all he has done in 2020 alone? Doubt it, but we play for championships just like LBJ does and something tells me that he'd feel his jersey getting retired without a ring would be empty.

Dude broke the Cleveland curse and is on the verge of winning 17 for Kobe...two epic feats that only he will hopefully be able to claim.

From Elgin to LeBron I love them all...been blessed to watch 10 championships and hoping to say 11 in a couple of weeks.

Good Luck and Good Night everyone. Thanks for the chat.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think he’s already punched his ticket to the rafters before the Finals begin.


Any on our rafter ringless as a Lakers?


Here's the original question that I answered correctly that has Ocho & Beir32 up in arms over nothing.

The answer is no...everyone in the rafters has at least 1 ring and is in the HoF.

Elgin has a ring. Facts don't have feelings.

Would Jeannie not admit LBJ to the rafters after all he has done in 2020 alone? Doubt it, but we play for championships just like LBJ does and something tells me that he'd feel his jersey getting retired without a ring would be empty.

Dude broke the Cleveland curse and is on the verge of winning 17 for Kobe...two epic feats that only he will hopefully be able to claim.

Make a poll. “Did Elgin Baylor ever win a ring?”. I’d love to see the results.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think he’s already punched his ticket to the rafters before the Finals begin.


Any on our rafter ringless as a Lakers?


Here's the original question that I answered correctly that has Ocho & Beir32 up in arms over nothing.

The answer is no...everyone in the rafters has at least 1 ring and is in the HoF.

Elgin has a ring. Facts don't have feelings.

Would Jeannie not admit LBJ to the rafters after all he has done in 2020 alone? Doubt it, but we play for championships just like LBJ does and something tells me that he'd feel his jersey getting retired without a ring would be empty.

Dude broke the Cleveland curse and is on the verge of winning 17 for Kobe...two epic feats that only he will hopefully be able to claim.

Make a poll. “Did Elgin Baylor ever win a ring?”. I’d love to see the results.


Go for it...I'm sure you'll get the support for your narrative.

Then create a 2nd poll with the question 'Does Elgin HAVE a championship ring?'

Your question is subjective, which makes for great barbershop discussion.

My question is objective, which only acts to piss people off in 2020 because it doesn't require an opinion.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:01 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think he’s already punched his ticket to the rafters before the Finals begin.


Any on our rafter ringless as a Lakers?


Here's the original question that I answered correctly that has Ocho & Beir32 up in arms over nothing.

The answer is no...everyone in the rafters has at least 1 ring and is in the HoF.

Elgin has a ring. Facts don't have feelings.

Would Jeannie not admit LBJ to the rafters after all he has done in 2020 alone? Doubt it, but we play for championships just like LBJ does and something tells me that he'd feel his jersey getting retired without a ring would be empty.

Dude broke the Cleveland curse and is on the verge of winning 17 for Kobe...two epic feats that only he will hopefully be able to claim.

Make a poll. “Did Elgin Baylor ever win a ring?”. I’d love to see the results.


Go for it...I'm sure you'll get the support for your narrative.

Then create a 2nd poll with the question 'Does Elgin HAVE a championship ring?'

Your question is subjective, which makes for great barbershop discussion.

My question is objective, which only acts to piss people off in 2020 because it doesn't require an opinion.

Quote:
Nope. To get to our rafters you have to have 2 things

1. Be in the HoF.

2. Have won a ring with us.

You said this. You were wrong. Instead of simply admitting it you hijacked this thread into a debate on the definition of the word “win”. Now you’re saying “own”? I wasn’t sure you were trolling before but now it’s crystal clear.

EB didn’t win a ring. This is an objective fact, not an opinion. I’m done with this hilariously stupid conversation.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:51 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
I think he’s already punched his ticket to the rafters before the Finals begin.


Any on our rafter ringless as a Lakers?


Here's the original question that I answered correctly that has Ocho & Beir32 up in arms over nothing.

The answer is no...everyone in the rafters has at least 1 ring and is in the HoF.

Elgin has a ring. Facts don't have feelings.

Would Jeannie not admit LBJ to the rafters after all he has done in 2020 alone? Doubt it, but we play for championships just like LBJ does and something tells me that he'd feel his jersey getting retired without a ring would be empty.

Dude broke the Cleveland curse and is on the verge of winning 17 for Kobe...two epic feats that only he will hopefully be able to claim.

Make a poll. “Did Elgin Baylor ever win a ring?”. I’d love to see the results.


Go for it...I'm sure you'll get the support for your narrative.

Then create a 2nd poll with the question 'Does Elgin HAVE a championship ring?'

Your question is subjective, which makes for great barbershop discussion.

My question is objective, which only acts to piss people off in 2020 because it doesn't require an opinion.

Quote:
Nope. To get to our rafters you have to have 2 things

1. Be in the HoF.

2. Have won a ring with us.

You said this. You were wrong. Instead of simply admitting it you hijacked this thread into a debate on the definition of the word “win”. Now you’re saying “own”? I wasn’t sure you were trolling before but now it’s crystal clear.

EB didn’t win a ring. This is an objective fact, not an opinion. I’m done with this hilariously stupid conversation.


I'm done as well.

He has a ring.

The question you refuse to acknowledge was...

'Are there any ringless Lakers in the rafters?'

The answer is No regardless of however you want to look at it.

He has a ring because a ring was won even if his contribution was 11 ppg for 9 games.

Ask Cal Norton about winning on a technicality. And I know for a fact Elgin covets his ring and was rooting his ass off for that squad and it killed him that his knees couldn't go. That makes him a champion in my book regardless if anyone agrees with me.

Thankfully I dont need your approval to think for myself.

Peace bruh.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject:

Win or lose thanks for leading the Lakers to the NBA finals.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Win or lose thanks for leading the Lakers to the NBA finals.


B-b-b-but he came to the Lakers to make movies!!!!!!
He ain't focused on basketball!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Win or lose thanks for leading the Lakers to the NBA finals.


We arent losing this one....too locked in and too good to lose to this Heat team. This team would need the KD-era Warriors to knock them off this year.
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