The LEBRON JAMES Thread - Give The Man His RESPECT!
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
Win or lose thanks for leading the Lakers to the NBA finals.


We arent losing this one....too locked in and too good to lose to this Heat team. This team would need the KD-era Warriors to knock them off this year.


I agree..did you see after the game 5 win..he just sat on the floor..he knows the job isn't done.

here is my basic premise..the Celtics and Clippers lost to teams they should have beat because of their lack of focus and desire..

You can see in these series these teams would have leads going into the 4th (which tells me they are potentially better skilled), but not close the game..closing the game takes mental toughness and focus because you are more tried among other things.

If the Lakers lose to the Heat, it would be because lack of energy and focus. The way I saw Lebron and the Lakers after the game 5 victory, they don't look satisfied. They still are hungry. I doubt they won't come out with focus and energy.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
32 wrote:
Win or lose thanks for leading the Lakers to the NBA finals.


We arent losing this one....too locked in and too good to lose to this Heat team. This team would need the KD-era Warriors to knock them off this year.


I agree..did you see after the game 5 win..he just sat on the floor..he knows the job isn't done.

here is my basic premise..the Celtics and Clippers lost to teams they should have beat because of their lack of focus and desire..

You can see in these series these teams would have leads going into the 4th (which tells me they are potentially better skilled), but not close the game..closing the game takes mental toughness and focus because you are more tried among other things.

If the Lakers lose to the Heat, it would be because lack of energy and focus. The way I saw Lebron and the Lakers after the game 5 victory, they don't look satisfied. They still are hungry. I doubt they won't come out with focus and energy.


LeBron seems to hate being in the bubble.. or at the least can't wait to get home. I'm sure all these guys do. Hard to be away from your amazing homes, wived, kids, friends, social life, etc. It's now been almost 4 months of hotel living and missing home. But it's almost done. 4 more games of intense focus and energy and they get to go home champions while honoring Kobe and winning over the city of LA.

I think they have all the motivation to get this thing done. Don't let all this go to waste.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Also, let’s not forget the weight of the bringing some happiness to the Lakers fans after losing Kobe tragically this year is heavy on the minds of Lebron and the team. Don’t think for a minute that is not driving Lebron to winning it this year.
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Brawn13
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Lebron got this.

He’s not letting this opportunity slip through his fingers. Heat aren’t loaded with all-nba players like the Warriors were. On paper, this will be arguably the least talented team he’s faced in the finals by a decent margin.

Also AD is a whole tier above any teammate he’s had besides 2011 Wade. I’m feeling good about our chances.

Go Lakeshow!!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


The Lakers have a high standard but Elgin Baylor is one of the best players ever and he spent his entire career with the Lakers. He does not need ring to cement his greatness.

Mitch Richmond is on HOF and won a ring with us. If that’s the criteria, his retired jersey will be in our rafters.


There are a few Hall of Famers who won rings for us we haven't retired. Besides Mitch, there are Spencer Hayward and Bob McAdoo.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:37 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


I'm simply stating facts and too many of you are taking issue with facts so let me put them in the form of close-ended questions.

1. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that don't have at least 1 ring?

2. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that aren't in the Hall of Fame?

3. Was any of this back and forth about Elgin?

The answer to all 3 questions is No.

The original question was whether or not any Lakers in the rafters didn't have a ring.

The answer to that is No as well.

You can debate Elgin all day but here's the list

Kobe 8 & 24 - 5 Rings, HoF
Magic 32 - 5 Rings, HoF
Cap 33 - 5 Rings with Lakers 6 overall, HoF
Big Game 42 - 3 Rings, HoF
Shaq 34 - 3 Rings with Lakers 4 overall, HoF
Silk 52 - 3 Rings, HoF
West 44 - 1 Ring MVP of 1969 Finals, HoF
Wilt 13 - 1 Ring, HoF
Goodrich - 1 Ring, HoF
Elgin - 1 Ring that everyone has a problem with, HoF
Chick - 9 Rings, HoF

Is there a strict criteria for who gets into the rafters? Who knows, ask Jeannie.

Why isn't Mitch Ritchmond up there? Because who gets retired is subjective, up to the discretion of the Lakers organization, he played only 1 season and averaged 4.1 points even though he won a ring with us.

Now lets compare that to Elgin...

14 seasons, averaged 27.4 points and 13.5 rebounds even though his last 2 seasons were marred by injuries that forced him to retire during the early stages of the championship season.

Since he retired do to injury he was still a part of that team, and just like any other injured player he got a ring for being a part of that team even though he was unable to play.

Why? Because that's how it's done in all of professional sports. Heck, even players that get traded away in season sometimes get a ring.

Did he earn it? I don't care.

Does he deserve to be in the rafters without it? Yes.

Is there any Laker in the rafters currently without a ring? No.

The first 2 are subjective the last is objective...it is a fact.

Facts don't have feelings.

Call this trolling if you want. And I'll call it lack of objectivity or comprehension and we can both move on and enjoy us hoisting number 17 if we're so lucky to be able to in the coming days.

I'm not attempting to be right...I'm simply stating facts.



To be honest, I am not sure what point you're trying to make, other than doing a semantics exercise with the words "won a ring" and "has a ring."

To me the bottom line is simple: Sure, every jersey we retired is a Hall of Famer who the Lakers gave a ring to. However, that doesn't mean that there is a criteria only jerseys belonging to Hall of Famers who were given a ring can be retired.

The second point is what people are really discussing; not the semantics exercise about "won a ring" or "has a ring."


Last edited by activeverb on Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Who the heck cares about Jersey retirement.

Just enjoy the ride and have fun...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
Who the heck cares about Jersey retirement.

Just enjoy the ride and have fun...



I guess your fun is telling other people what topics they are permitted to enjoy
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:55 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:

Elgin won a ring with us...that's why he has one even though y'all think he shouldnt.


That’s your interpretation. And I would say your interpretation is a minority one, since Elgin commonly appears on lists of NBA superstars who have never won a ring.

My opinion is Elgin never won a ring. He was a given a ring by the Lakers as a good will gesture.

And that's cool. Tons of people have been given rings who really had no role in their team winning a championship. As I said a moment ago, the Cavs offered a ring to Anderson Varejao who was on the Warriors team they beat. (He was traded mid season.) Ultimately, Varejao declined the ring, but if he had accepted it I wouldn't consider him part of the Cavs championship team.

But the bottom line is: The Lakers would have still retired Elgin's jersey even if they had no graciously given him a ring for the 71-72 team that he was really no part of.


I'm simply stating facts and too many of you are taking issue with facts so let me put them in the form of close-ended questions.

1. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that don't have at least 1 ring?

2. Are there any Lakers with retired numbers that aren't in the Hall of Fame?

3. Was any of this back and forth about Elgin?

The answer to all 3 questions is No.

The original question was whether or not any Lakers in the rafters didn't have a ring.

The answer to that is No as well.

You can debate Elgin all day but here's the list

Kobe 8 & 24 - 5 Rings, HoF
Magic 32 - 5 Rings, HoF
Cap 33 - 5 Rings with Lakers 6 overall, HoF
Big Game 42 - 3 Rings, HoF
Shaq 34 - 3 Rings with Lakers 4 overall, HoF
Silk 52 - 3 Rings, HoF
West 44 - 1 Ring MVP of 1969 Finals, HoF
Wilt 13 - 1 Ring, HoF
Goodrich - 1 Ring, HoF
Elgin - 1 Ring that everyone has a problem with, HoF
Chick - 9 Rings, HoF

Is there a strict criteria for who gets into the rafters? Who knows, ask Jeannie.

Why isn't Mitch Ritchmond up there? Because who gets retired is subjective, up to the discretion of the Lakers organization, he played only 1 season and averaged 4.1 points even though he won a ring with us.

Now lets compare that to Elgin...

14 seasons, averaged 27.4 points and 13.5 rebounds even though his last 2 seasons were marred by injuries that forced him to retire during the early stages of the championship season.

Since he retired do to injury he was still a part of that team, and just like any other injured player he got a ring for being a part of that team even though he was unable to play.

Why? Because that's how it's done in all of professional sports. Heck, even players that get traded away in season sometimes get a ring.

Did he earn it? I don't care.

Does he deserve to be in the rafters without it? Yes.

Is there any Laker in the rafters currently without a ring? No.

The first 2 are subjective the last is objective...it is a fact.

Facts don't have feelings.

Call this trolling if you want. And I'll call it lack of objectivity or comprehension and we can both move on and enjoy us hoisting number 17 if we're so lucky to be able to in the coming days.

I'm not attempting to be right...I'm simply stating facts.



To be honest, I am not sure what point you're trying to make, other than doing a semantics exercise with the words "won a ring" and "has a ring."

To me the bottom line is simple: Sure, every jersey we retired is a Hall of Famer who the Lakers gave a ring to. However, that doesn't mean that there is a criteria only jerseys belonging to Hall of Famers who were given a ring can be retired.

The second point is what people are really discussing; not the semantics exercise about "won a ring" or "has a ring."

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:02 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:17 pm    Post subject:

Maybe next time the Lakes win a title, even if it's a decade from now, they'll just give Lebron a ring. Then his jersey can be retired.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Maybe next time the Lakes win a title, even if it's a decade from now, they'll just give Lebron a ring. Then his jersey can be retired.



Well played. I’d rather he get it the old fashioned way, though. Hopefully in a week he’ll have actually earned it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject:

Elgin was given a ring but - officially - he was not a member of an NBA Championship team.

Some years ago, this issue of jersey retirement came up on the board and "someone with knowledge of the Lakers thinking" said the criteria was HOF and significant contributions to the franchise. That makes sense to me.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:45 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.


Thought we were all done and moved on?

But since y'all want to be right...

The original question was, "Are any rafter Lakers ringless?'

What is your answer to that?

Yes?

If so you are wrong. Elgin has a ring even if you dont think he earned or deserved it. I'm not debating that with any of you. He deserves to be up there without one...I'm just stating a verifiable fact.

Is it possible for a Laker to have his number retired without a ring?

Yes. Anything is possible...but as of now everyone up there is in the HoF and has a ring.

It's ok to disagree. Is it ok to attempt to belittle? IDK...that seems childish to me.

Feel free to continue to attempt to ridicule a fellow community member who is simply stating a fact that he has proven and demonstrate your own insecurities in the process.

AV I'm not including you in this because you havent made any attempts at belittling me...but to everyone else who has I say...I see you...and I'm not bothered by it in the least. Just really reflects poorly on the people doing it imo but I'm nobody special, so who cares what I think.

Let's Go Lakers...wishing everyone great day...tons of happiness...and good vibes for our squad on our march to 17 led by someone who we all hope leads us to the promised land to close out a miserable year.

LeBron in the rafters with ringworm, a ring around the tub, or a ring he didnt deserve still means we added another ring...I can live with that.

Peace be with you all.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:20 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.


Wow days later and he’s still going?

That Baylor championship that he never won sure is important to him.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.


Wow days later and he’s still going?

That Baylor championship that he never won sure is important to him.


Or days later, he didn't rehash any of this, someone else did and he's simply responding because of the continued attempts at ridiculing him for stating a verifiable fact.

I do find it fascinating how a few of you are dedicated to ignoring the original question so you can create ad hominem attacks on such a trivial issue.

If you're right, does it really matter what anyone else thinks?

I'm totally fine with ending this silly conversation but I wont be giving any of you the benefit of having the last word when you use it in an attempt to belittle me.

Just know that.

Also know that I do respect and actually like each of you...which kind of makes all of this even more awkward.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject:

The only opinion that matters is the Lakers organization opinion. And they clearly think (thought) that Baylor has a ring. Don't see what's the point of debating this.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
The only opinion that matters is the Lakers organization opinion. And they clearly think (thought) that Baylor has a ring. Don't see what's the point of debating this.


+1

It's not so much a debate as an attempt to ridicule me over a player none of us ever watched play.

Next we'll talk about how the 5 championships we claim from Minnie aren't really ours either since they weren't won in LA.

Thanks for being an objective voice of reason.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject:

Quote:
It's not so much a debate as an attempt to ridicule me over a player none of us ever watched play.


Oh I did see him play.

My fondest memory was the year he finally won that elusive championship. I was in the building. He was brilliant in those finals. Put up monster numbers and carried the team across the finish line. Such an emotional moment seeing Elgin raise that championship trophy over his head. Just literally an unbelievable moment.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:00 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
It's not so much a debate as an attempt to ridicule me over a player none of us ever watched play.


Oh I did see him play.

My fondest memory was the year he finally won that elusive championship. I was in the building. He was brilliant in those finals. Put up monster numbers and carried the team across the finish line. Such an emotional moment seeing Elgin raise that championship trophy over his head. Just literally an unbelievable moment.


Real knee slapper.

What do you need? A bottle? A blankie?

Let me know...I'll do what I can.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It's not so much a debate as an attempt to ridicule me over a player none of us ever watched play.


Oh I did see him play.

My fondest memory was the year he finally won that elusive championship. I was in the building. He was brilliant in those finals. Put up monster numbers and carried the team across the finish line. Such an emotional moment seeing Elgin raise that championship trophy over his head. Just literally an unbelievable moment.


Real knee slapper.

What do you need? A bottle? A blankie?

Let me know...I'll do what I can.


Depends what’s in the bottle.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:25 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
It's not so much a debate as an attempt to ridicule me over a player none of us ever watched play.


Oh I did see him play.

My fondest memory was the year he finally won that elusive championship. I was in the building. He was brilliant in those finals. Put up monster numbers and carried the team across the finish line. Such an emotional moment seeing Elgin raise that championship trophy over his head. Just literally an unbelievable moment.


Real knee slapper.

What do you need? A bottle? A blankie?

Let me know...I'll do what I can.


Depends what’s in the bottle.


THC infused bourbon.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
Who the heck cares about Jersey retirement.

Just enjoy the ride and have fun...



I guess your fun is telling other people what topics they are permitted to enjoy


no i just knew what you now know

Quote:
activeverb wrote:
Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
He’s not letting this opportunity slip through his fingers. Heat aren’t loaded with all-nba players like the Warriors were. On paper, this will be arguably the least talented team he’s faced in the finals by a decent margin.


Sometimes players fitting together well matters as much or more than their individual talent - one reason that things that should happen "on paper" don't always happen on the court. I think that's the case with the Heat. we are clearly better than them as far as our top 2 players, but I'd give them the edge in the 3-8 players. But they are still the underdogs. I think their only chance is if they start hitting 3s at a remarkable percentage.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
Who the heck cares about Jersey retirement.

Just enjoy the ride and have fun...



I guess your fun is telling other people what topics they are permitted to enjoy


no i just knew what you now know

Quote:
activeverb wrote:
Beir32 wrote:

Not worth it my dude. Trust me.


You're probably right. This one really went off the tracks.


It went off the tracks with one particular poster, but I certainly enjoyed the discussion overall. As, I assume, did the 8 other people who were taking part in the discussion.
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