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Wildchild027
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
pmacla wrote:
krisobe wrote:
Give him a 5 year 200+ max contract. I would be happy if he gets us at least 2 rings in that time span and us keeping BALL/PG/INGRAM when he retires. I think he can play till 37-38 ish at a high level.


best we could do is 4/160 but I agree he would play the 4 and not have to cover best player on defense or bring the ball up here if he gave us 2 really good years the 2 ok years i am fine with that because Ball/Ingram last 2 years with him they should be more dominant anyway


He would have to guard KD or Draymond. That took a lot out of him the last Finals. That team wouldn't match up well with GS.


He guarded Draymond in the finals when Love was out with an concussion. He did fine. Outside of OKC with Robertson and George, no one outside the Lakers would matchu p better.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, the thing with Kobe was that, although he certainly had some wear and tear on him, he was still an elite player up until the very moment he snapped his Achilles. After that, it was done. He was never the same; he wasn't even a replacement-level player after that. In short, it was a catastrophic injury for him. Had he just aged normally, without that injury, he's still likely an All-Star for his next 2 seasons, at the very least. Unfortunately, we'll never know.

Compare this to LeBron, who has had less wear and tear on his body (I realize he's played a ton of minutes but he's had less injuries than Kobe had up to this point in each player's career) and is playing at a higher level than Kobe was at this same point in Kobe's career. Barring a catastrophic injury, LeBron is still going to be a great player for at least a couple more seasons and likely an All-Star player for 3-4 more seasons.

I realize that there are some possible downsides to getting him, but in my mind, the positives far, far outweigh the negatives. Aside from a true criminal who is a detestable human being, if a person wants to play for the Lakers and he's great at basketball and would clearly help us win games, count me in. And I say this as someone who used to hate LeBron more than any other athlete in sports. But in recent years, he's at least graduated to someone that I can tolerate in terms of what I think of him off the court. And that's more than fine by me.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Lebron is such a mercenary. I'm not sure I'd want him on the Lakers pretty much for that reason. He's not nor will ever be up there with the other laker greats, he's can't be LA like they were. to me he's too well travelled, not one or two, but three previous teams; super teams. If he comes, fine. I guess we're closing in on another ring,
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject:

If Lebron wants to sign here I would be ok with it, if the following were to happen:

1) We don't overpay him and still maintain enough money to sign another Max player.

2) No long contract! After having been in the tank for the last 4/5 years due to giving long-term mega contracts to Kobe & Nash - hopefully the Lakers have learned their lesson! It should have Team options EVERY year in it!

3) We bring in another Max player (like George)...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Lebron is such a mercenary. I'm not sure I'd want him on the Lakers pretty much for that reason. He's not nor will ever be up there with the other laker greats, he's can't be LA like they were. to me he's too well travelled, not one or two, but three previous teams; super teams. If he comes, fine. I guess we're closing in on another ring,


I mean.....the bottom line is, if he adds another trophy, it adds to our lore. period. It'd cement us over Boston. I could argue, the best player in the league choosing our team over there's, and winning here, also adds to our lore.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Lebron is such a mercenary. I'm not sure I'd want him on the Lakers pretty much for that reason. He's not nor will ever be up there with the other laker greats, he's can't be LA like they were. to me he's too well travelled, not one or two, but three previous teams; super teams. If he comes, fine. I guess we're closing in on another ring,


Wilt, Robert Horry, Kareem, Jamaal Wilkes, Lindsey Hunter, Mitch Kupchak, Shaquille O'Neal, Ron Harper, John Salley, Horace Grant: all of those guys contributed to Laker titles, but also won rings on other teams (some prior to becoming Lakers, others after they left, and Horry did both).

Enjoy LBJ for the potential of a ring. I was happy as hell when we signed Malone and Payton.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:05 am    Post subject:

LeBron doesn't equal "Finals" in the West.

LeBron doesn't even equal best record in the East, where he's allowed to coast because of the easier competition. In the West he wouldn't be allowed to "Coast" and we don't have a secondary player that can put up numbers the way Kyrie did or get their own shot to do such as Kyrie did at this point in their careers.

Even if we play the numbers and go "But Kobe did it at 21", then we also have to acknowledge that Kobe had been in the league since he was 17, that's 4 years. So 21 was 4 years after he started.

So by that metric, Lonzo won't be ready till he's 22 and Ingram won't be ready till he's 22.

4 years from now is 2021. LeBron will be 36 going on 37 at that time.

This will also be in the West where he'd be asked to do a lot more than he's asked in the East particularly due to the "go to" offensive talent missing on our team. He's not going to put a bunch of 18 year olds on his back and try to carry them to the Finals in the East. He has much easier options in places like the Timberwolves where Butler already is, or staying in Cleveland with Kyrie for another season(if they don't move him) and LeBron does another 1+1 deal.


Also keep in mind our style that Luke and Lonzo want to run and they thrive best in. LeBron isn't running with us, we'd have to play at a slow tempo to placate him because making him "run" for 4 seasons before our kids are ready, means his legs will be beyond gone if he hasn't retired by then. But then that doesn't maximize what Lonzo does.


The reality is, LeBron may not be the best fit for the style we want to play, but even if we signed him on a 4 year deal which I'd do if he committed to our kids won't be ready till about year 3. By which time LeBron's skills WILL have eroded.


So maybe the big name "get" is LeBron. But the reality is this, IF we get LeBron, we WILL have to give up Ingram or Lonzo in order to bring another star here more ready to contribute and make us an instant championship contender, and if we had to get rid of both to make that happen that's precisely what LeBron will require. He's not looking to join a team that will have a window in 4 years, he wants to make a team whose window is only 2-3 years and he will stay on 1+1's to bolt whenever it looks like they aren't the team that can do it.

That's the reality you get when you sign LeBron James, he wants to go to the FINALS the first year he arrives and he will require ANY kinds of moves to make that happen even if it means losing our young core.


This is why the LeBron James route is good for a 2-3 year window with which we'll likely still not beat the Warriors and then LeBron will bolt and we'll be in the lottery again from 2020-2024 all over again while Lonzo, Ingram and Randle grow somewhere else into their prime.

LeBron appeals to a "quick fix" mentality that will leave us nowhere in 2-3 seasons and with the strength of the Warriors, likely ring-less.


The mentality we should be approaching Free Agency with is one of longevity. Putting together a team that is going to be strong for 2-3 seasons but also be even stronger as our kids grow into their own.

That's why we shouldn't look to blow our load in the 2018 free agency on TWO MAX deals.

We should probably look to get one in 2018 and the other in 2019.

I know people hate DeMarcus Cousins, but at the very least by the time our kids are 4 years into his career he'll be just entering 30.


Then in the 2019 Free Agency if you kept one of your max's the previous year. This is who's available then

Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Harrison Barnes
Khris Middleton
Hassan Whiteside
MKG
Bismack Biyombo
Goran Dragic


There's a lot of talent there, a lot with which you can increase the depth of your team and fill out some holes, or sign a big name, such as Kyrie. Kawhi is likely staying a Spur. It's about planning for the future. And let's assume we signed Kyrie and signed Cousins this off-season.

Kyrie Irving(27)
Lonzo Ball(20)
Brandon Ingram(20)
Julius Randle(24)
DeMarcus Cousins (29)

That's still a young team and loaded with talent with guys not falling off and still in their primes for a few good years at the top, and years to come from the youngsters..

But "Cousins can't run, his weight, his legs, his conditioning..."

Cousins went and got the same guy that Randle hired to work with him on the same things Jules has him working on, and Cousins is already showing that effect.



As of August 6, Boogie's lost 20 pounds which means he's around 250 now instead of around 270.. that's kind of a big deal when it comes to his issues.

https://twitter.com/PelicansNBA/status/893889319127191552

Also said how he gets around a lot easier now up and down the court and how great his body feels. That's important.

And in the Africa Game, you saw Boogie getting up and down the court a lot faster, light on his feet etc, and that was an exhibition game and we've still got some months before the season he's working with Amoila. So I think Cousins may wind up being a better option than people expect and may fit better next to Lonzo than given credit.

But again we'll have to see this season how he does.

Anyway, getting LeBron comes with it's own disadvantages, expectations and risks to your franchise's window and what happens to your franchise after.

So going after Cousins and then the next off-season trying for Kyrie may not be the sexy facebook choice. But it may wind up being one of the best ones we could make in the long run. Or it could all go bollocks up. But at least we know what we're getting with LeBron in terms of what he'll require of our team, as the last few season in Cleveland have shown.


ALL THAT SAID... I'd take LeBron on a 4 year deal in a heartbeat and a half. But LeBron on a 1+1 may be too much drama/changes/chances to leave our team back in the lottery if we don't get it done in one or two year's time.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:01 am    Post subject:

^^^
So you basically turn it from hoping we get lebron to hoping we get kyrie?
And boogie's conditioning will be better than Lebron?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject:

Lakeshow1843 wrote:
^^^
So you basically turn it from hoping we get lebron to hoping we get kyrie?
And boogie's conditioning will be better than Lebron?



If you read what I said, you'll have the answer to both of those questions.

Anyway, longevity and realistic expectations on our young roster are gonna be important going forward. At youngest, Ingram and Ball are 4 years away from being players that push us in that kind of championship or contention direction.

Anything sooner than that and that would mean they are both transcendent.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject:

Rant against LBJ...but advocate maxing out Kyrie/Boogie?



Just b/c they're younger?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Rant against LBJ...but advocate maxing out Kyrie/Boogie?



Just b/c they're younger?


This actually makes sense if you start with the premise that Ball and Ingram become legit #1 and #2 options.

If you start with the premise that they will not, then, I agree, it doesn't make sense.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Rant against LBJ...but advocate maxing out Kyrie/Boogie?



Just b/c they're younger?


This actually makes sense if you start with the premise that Ball and Ingram become legit #1 and #2 options.

If you start with the premise that they will not, then, I agree, it doesn't make sense.


That will take so many years to find out that by the time that happens, Kyrie/Boogie will be 30 or beyond. It's better to have the established players now, and let Lonzo/ingram grow under the aegis of 2 stars.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject:

I totally understand the age issue, but our two best guys are SO young that we will never have a core of 2 max players that are in the same age category to grow organically with them over the next 6-7 years.

I look more for guys who are 2 way players who won't be a liability defensively against playoff teams. LBJ/PG13 fit the bill to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:04 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Is there any realistic scenario were the Lakers and Cleveland work out a deal involving LeBron right now? I know we are dealing with Dan Gilbert but all LeBron needs to come out and say is I want to be a Laker.



I know I will be roasted by a number of posters in here for suggesting this but ... I agree with you 100%. Trading for LeBron now makes perfectly good sense even if it involves giving up Ingram.

Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng (possibly a future 1st rounder) for LeBron not only gives us a contender immediately but it keeps all of our cap space free next year to also sign George and another strong role player or two. Or we sign PG and keep Lopez and KCP. Either way, we're a serious contender for the next 3-4 years.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject:

NYLakerFan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Is there any realistic scenario were the Lakers and Cleveland work out a deal involving LeBron right now? I know we are dealing with Dan Gilbert but all LeBron needs to come out and say is I want to be a Laker.



I know I will be roasted by a number of posters in here for suggesting this but ... I agree with you 100%. Trading for LeBron now makes perfectly good sense even if it involves giving up Ingram.

Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng (possibly a future 1st rounder) for LeBron not only gives us a contender immediately but it keeps all of our cap space free next year to also sign George and another strong role player or two. Or we sign PG and keep Lopez and KCP. Either way, we're a serious contender for the next 3-4 years.


I don't think the cap math works for the deals you are mentioning, not even close.

And yes, there is no way i trade Ingram for LBJ right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
NYLakerFan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Is there any realistic scenario were the Lakers and Cleveland work out a deal involving LeBron right now? I know we are dealing with Dan Gilbert but all LeBron needs to come out and say is I want to be a Laker.



I know I will be roasted by a number of posters in here for suggesting this but ... I agree with you 100%. Trading for LeBron now makes perfectly good sense even if it involves giving up Ingram.

Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng (possibly a future 1st rounder) for LeBron not only gives us a contender immediately but it keeps all of our cap space free next year to also sign George and another strong role player or two. Or we sign PG and keep Lopez and KCP. Either way, we're a serious contender for the next 3-4 years.


I don't think the cap math works for the deals you are mentioning, not even close.

And yes, there is no way i trade Ingram for LBJ right now.



I believe the cap numbers work as we would be sending out $34 mil and taking in $33 mil. Can't test it, though, with the Trade Machine as it rejects it based on LeBron's no trade clause.

I would normally agree with not giving up Ingram for LeBron. The only exception is if I am positive I can sign George to replace him. Otherwise, I would not make this deal.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject:

NYLakerFan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
NYLakerFan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Is there any realistic scenario were the Lakers and Cleveland work out a deal involving LeBron right now? I know we are dealing with Dan Gilbert but all LeBron needs to come out and say is I want to be a Laker.



I know I will be roasted by a number of posters in here for suggesting this but ... I agree with you 100%. Trading for LeBron now makes perfectly good sense even if it involves giving up Ingram.

Ingram, Clarkson, and Deng (possibly a future 1st rounder) for LeBron not only gives us a contender immediately but it keeps all of our cap space free next year to also sign George and another strong role player or two. Or we sign PG and keep Lopez and KCP. Either way, we're a serious contender for the next 3-4 years.


I don't think the cap math works for the deals you are mentioning, not even close.

And yes, there is no way i trade Ingram for LBJ right now.



I believe the cap numbers work as we would be sending out $34 mil and taking in $33 mil. Can't test it, though, with the Trade Machine as it rejects it based on LeBron's no trade clause.

I would normally agree with not giving up Ingram for LeBron. The only exception is if I am positive I can sign George to replace him. Otherwise, I would not make this deal.


There is no way you can keep LBJ (massive cap hold), sign PG13, and then sign KCP AND Brook.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:15 am    Post subject:

Dan Gilbert would probably rather see his team burn than let LBJ go to the Lakers. He is a petty man.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

This is Broussard and Cowherd so take with grain of salt but interesting conversation.

Broussard's summary of what happened with Irving seems to have some truth to it imo. He says one of reasons for kyrie getting mad is cavs had deal with Phoenix, kyrie for Bledsoe and #4 pick. Cavs would then send #4 pick to Indy for PG13. Gilbert told lebron he would pull trigger if lebron committed long-term. Lebron wants to keep options open like he has been doing, but supposedly kyrie got mad and it's one of the reasons he wants out.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
This is Broussard and Cowherd so take with grain of salt but interesting conversation.

Broussard's summary of what happened with Irving seems to have some truth to it imo. He says one of reasons for kyrie getting mad is cavs had deal with Phoenix, kyrie for Bledsoe and #4 pick. Cavs would then send #4 pick to Indy for PG13. Gilbert told lebron he would pull trigger if lebron committed long-term. Lebron wants to keep options open like he has been doing, but supposedly kyrie got mad and it's one of the reasons he wants out.



I wonder if that means they wouldn't have gotten Rose.

So Bledsoe and PG replacing Kyrie and J.R. Smith?
Interesting.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

Btw, supposedly Bill Simmons said that the Lakers and Cavs should work out a deal for LeBron RIGHT NOW... so maybe it's not completely impossible

He suggested Ingram/Clarkson/Randle/Brewer and a 2018 top 10 protected pick heading to Cleveland
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject:

The only thing I'm giving up are players that would need to be traded to clear cap space in 2018, i.e. JC/Deng/Jules...take your pick.

Off limits are Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz b/c LBJ is a FA next summer anyways.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject:

The LeBron "wanting to trade young players" is so overstated
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Btw, supposedly Bill Simmons said that the Lakers and Cavs should work out a deal for LeBron RIGHT NOW... so maybe it's not completely impossible

He suggested Ingram/Clarkson/Randle/Brewer and a 2018 top 10 protected pick heading to Cleveland


Bill Simmons is just a talking head.

And that's way too much for Bron. Plus he won't waive his no trade clause for that offer.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject:

True Lakers Fan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Btw, supposedly Bill Simmons said that the Lakers and Cavs should work out a deal for LeBron RIGHT NOW... so maybe it's not completely impossible

He suggested Ingram/Clarkson/Randle/Brewer and a 2018 top 10 protected pick heading to Cleveland


Bill Simmons is just a talking head.

And that's way too much for Bron. Plus he won't waive his no trade clause for that offer.


Yikes. I'm hoping and assuming the Lakers FO has better foresight than that.
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