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kwase
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | This version of Bron is the same version we will see for the entirety of this season if these coaches don't actually earn their paychecks..
You guys are complaining about his iso play.. That's what you do when there is no offense to run. It's the same thing people complained about with Ingram. He's gone now and we're still seeing a lot of isolation play.
Yes, Bron looks unimpressive.. and it's not his fault. I guarantee you he'd be efficient and playing at a really high level with competent coaching and an actual offense being ran. |
lebron has never played in a system because he can’t. He’s always been the same player his entire career. He dribbles the ball up the court looking to bully his way to the basket. If he can’t he dishes it off to a guy that’s usually just standing around watching him. He forces his teammates to be spot up shooters. The offense has always revolved around him and much of it is predicated on his strength. When he was in his prime a lot of his points came from the free throw line because when he bullies his way to the basket he forces contact with the defender by throwing his arm out and the refs have always given him that call. In the off season he mostly lifts weights, which is why his footwork and shooting never improved. lebron has been in the league long enough to call his own plays and if his BBIQ is as high as some claim then it really doesn’t matter what the coach draws up. No way am I going to accept blaming the coach or he doesn’t have enough help excuses this year and beyond. I didn’t like them when he wasn’t on my team and I don’t want to hear it now. If we win he’s going to get all the credit and if we lose it’s his fault...plain and simple. |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: |
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He looked old.
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al242
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Please retire or request a trade, I want nothing to do with you!
#BUM |
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | This version of Bron is the same version we will see for the entirety of this season if these coaches don't actually earn their paychecks..
You guys are complaining about his iso play.. That's what you do when there is no offense to run. It's the same thing people complained about with Ingram. He's gone now and we're still seeing a lot of isolation play.
Yes, Bron looks unimpressive.. and it's not his fault. I guarantee you he'd be efficient and playing at a really high level with competent coaching and an actual offense being ran. |
lebron has never played in a system because he can’t. He’s always been the same player his entire career. He dribbles the ball up the court looking to bully his way to the basket. If he can’t he dishes it off to a guy that’s usually just standing around watching him. He forces his teammates to be spot up shooters. The offense has always revolved around him and much of it is predicated on his strength. When he was in his prime a lot of his points came from the free throw line because when he bullies his way to the basket he forces contact with the defender by throwing his arm out and the refs have always given him that call. In the off season he mostly lifts weights, which is why his footwork and shooting never improved. lebron has been in the league long enough to call his own plays and if his BBIQ is as high as some claim then it really doesn’t matter what the coach draws up. No way am I going to accept blaming the coach or he doesn’t have enough help excuses this year and beyond. I didn’t like them when he wasn’t on my team and I don’t want to hear it now. If we win he’s going to get all the credit and if we lose it’s his fault...plain and simple. |
I actually agree with a lot of what you said about how he generates his offense. With that being said he's now in a stage of his career where he will need help to get good looks consistently. And there's nothing wrong with that.
My main point is that he shouldn't have to work as hard as he's working to get looks, neither should AD. Is it not the coaches job to install offensive schemes that create opportunities for players? If everything they get on offense has to come through Bron or AD we are in trouble, and it indicates to me that the coaches are lazy or inept.
I'm not making excuses for Bron, I've never been a fan. With that being said he's a hell of a ball player who can look a hell of a lot better within a structured offense.
This team is going to suck if all we're going to see is AD and Bron single handedly creating offense for themselves and everyone else. That's too much work for them to bear for an entire season.
This in my opinion is all about the coaching. I'd bet anything Bron wouldn't look the way he did last night under coach Pop, or if he were in GS.. |
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anth2000
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Yes he looked so old on those dunks and that awesome blocked shot.
Haters will be haters.
It’s game 1, chicken littles!! |
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SocalDevin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | Yes he looked so old on those dunks and that awesome blocked shot.
Haters will be haters.
It’s game 1, chicken littles!! |
If we're being honest he does move like an older player. He couldn't blow by Zubac. I also noticed guys are playing off of him on defense so when he tries to drive by them he doesn't get any separation. We need to be honest about how he looks from a mobility standpoint. He can no longer score at will, or whenever he feels like it.
In spite this, he still has elite court vision and an ability to orchestrate offensive sets at a high level. The problem was guys weren't moving, and the spacing was off on quite a few possessions, which I believe attributed to a lot of his turnovers. We need a system.. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:14 am Post subject: |
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We also did have a ton of good looks for guys like Cook/Daniels who didn't hit. Based on averages, they will. So I'm still hopeful LBJ can set these snipers up.
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pmacla
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| I like LeBron and believe he has alot left in the tank, I hate that he said he was a rusty, thats an excuse you are too good for that just say what it was a bad 2nd half actually he played a terrible 2nd half |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | We also did have a ton of good looks for guys like Cook/Daniels who didn't hit. Based on averages, they will. So I'm still hopeful LBJ can set these snipers up. |
At some point he has to just go. Take his man to the rim. This set up players nonsense is a waste of his talent and takes too much out of him...bringing the ball up all the time...looking for the open man...come on...you're LeBron fricken James...take your man and go to work. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | We also did have a ton of good looks for guys like Cook/Daniels who didn't hit. Based on averages, they will. So I'm still hopeful LBJ can set these snipers up. |
That is true about Cook, Daniels etc having better nights going forward.
On the other hand, one can't expect Green to be 7 of 9 on three pointers every game either.
Collectively, the team shot 39.4% on three pointers which is on the high end of expectations for the season. If they need better than 40% shooting on three pointers to win games, then this will be a long season. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We also did have a ton of good looks for guys like Cook/Daniels who didn't hit. Based on averages, they will. So I'm still hopeful LBJ can set these snipers up. |
At some point he has to just go. Take his man to the rim. This set up players nonsense is a waste of his talent and takes too much out of him...bringing the ball up all the time...looking for the open man...come on...you're LeBron fricken James...take your man and go to work. |
Yeah. I don't like the mindset of him being a "point guard." Rather have him set up in half court. But the problem is whether Bradley/Cook/Caruso (Rondo can but he has other issues) can reliably bring the ball up against pressure.
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LaLaLakeShow
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Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | This version of Bron is the same version we will see for the entirety of this season if these coaches don't actually earn their paychecks..
You guys are complaining about his iso play.. That's what you do when there is no offense to run. It's the same thing people complained about with Ingram. He's gone now and we're still seeing a lot of isolation play.
Yes, Bron looks unimpressive.. and it's not his fault. I guarantee you he'd be efficient and playing at a really high level with competent coaching and an actual offense being ran. |
lebron has never played in a system because he can’t. He’s always been the same player his entire career. He dribbles the ball up the court looking to bully his way to the basket. If he can’t he dishes it off to a guy that’s usually just standing around watching him. He forces his teammates to be spot up shooters. The offense has always revolved around him and much of it is predicated on his strength. When he was in his prime a lot of his points came from the free throw line because when he bullies his way to the basket he forces contact with the defender by throwing his arm out and the refs have always given him that call. In the off season he mostly lifts weights, which is why his footwork and shooting never improved. lebron has been in the league long enough to call his own plays and if his BBIQ is as high as some claim then it really doesn’t matter what the coach draws up. No way am I going to accept blaming the coach or he doesn’t have enough help excuses this year and beyond. I didn’t like them when he wasn’t on my team and I don’t want to hear it now. If we win he’s going to get all the credit and if we lose it’s his fault...plain and simple. |
I actually agree with a lot of what you said about how he generates his offense. With that being said he's now in a stage of his career where he will need help to get good looks consistently. And there's nothing wrong with that.
My main point is that he shouldn't have to work as hard as he's working to get looks, neither should AD. Is it not the coaches job to install offensive schemes that create opportunities for players? If everything they get on offense has to come through Bron or AD we are in trouble, and it indicates to me that the coaches are lazy or inept.
I'm not making excuses for Bron, I've never been a fan. With that being said he's a hell of a ball player who can look a hell of a lot better within a structured offense.
This team is going to suck if all we're going to see is AD and Bron single handedly creating offense for themselves and everyone else. That's too much work for them to bear for an entire season.
This in my opinion is all about the coaching. I'd bet anything Bron wouldn't look the way he did last night under coach Pop, or if he were in GS.. |
Both of you make some really good points |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We also did have a ton of good looks for guys like Cook/Daniels who didn't hit. Based on averages, they will. So I'm still hopeful LBJ can set these snipers up. |
That is true about Cook, Daniels etc having better nights going forward.
On the other hand, one can't expect Green to be 7 of 9 on three pointers every game either.
Collectively, the team shot 39.4% on three pointers which is on the high end of expectations for the season. If they need better than 40% shooting on three pointers to win games, then this will be a long season. |
True. But I do think the law of 3 point averages will be better overall. Green was amazing last night. I do think he can maintain his high 3%.
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LaLaLakeShow
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Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| UKUGA wrote: | | He looked old. |
Especially in the fourth quarter. Two combined points from AD and LBJ in the 4th is not going to get it done. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:16 am Post subject: |
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I think LeBron and team watch lots of film today. I actually love this first game being what it was versus coasting out of the gate. This is when the team and coaching staff figure things out together.
The sky is not falling. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Yup. I actually like that this team got its collective nose busted. Either step up to the bully or not. We'll see.
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ElginBaylor
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Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically LeBron led teams start slow out of the gate. Not sure why we would expect anything different especially given this team is almost entirely new.
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
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Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs. |
👍 |
Great post and spot on.
I think he was out of gas...
Kudos to Green who looks great and brought them back.
LeBron and Davis need to stay away from too much iso ball. It sucks and is too predictable.
The team will be fine. I think they watch the film as a team and they can see all the mistakes. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically LeBron led teams start slow out of the gate. Not sure why we would expect anything different especially given this team is almost entirely new. |
This is also true. He is now something like 2 games under .500 on opening nights.
However, the team cannot have a "we'll just flip the switch" mentality either. Clips certainly didn't last night.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs. |
👍 |
Great post and spot on.
I think he was out of gas...
Kudos to Green who looks great and brought them back.
LeBron and Davis need to stay away from too much iso ball. It sucks and is too predictable.
The team will be fine. I think they watch the film as a team and they can see all the mistakes. |
ISO ball should be used when things break down, not as a 1st resort. LBJ/AD are too smart of players to be resorting to 1980s/1990s iso ball. They're gifted passers and should be doing other things. how much is that on them or Vogel? Who knows.
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs. |
👍 |
Great post and spot on.
I think he was out of gas...
Kudos to Green who looks great and brought them back.
LeBron and Davis need to stay away from too much iso ball. It sucks and is too predictable.
The team will be fine. I think they watch the film as a team and they can see all the mistakes. |
ISO ball should be used when things break down, not as a 1st resort. LBJ/AD are too smart of players to be resorting to 1980s/1990s iso ball. They're gifted passers and should be doing other things. how much is that on them or Vogel? Who knows. |
Exactly. I do like that this was the first game. Bring the egos back to earth. Bring the “we better” mentality back to earth.
The team and coaching staff have some work to do but that’s ok...everything will be fine.  |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Few thoughts:
1. looked great defensively on a few sequences. When he blocked a shot and then got a charge on in sequence was amazing. Reminds you that when he wants to give 100% he's phenomenal. That being said, really disappointed that he didn't want to take the challenge to slow down KL. I get it, you're running the offense, but the team was bleeding out with KCP "guarding" KL. I also get it, it's the first game so he's not going all out, but this would have been a tone-setting move. That's one fair criticism of LBJ, he doesn't like to set the team tone. He would have done MUCH better on KL as he is strong enough to take KL's bullying in the post.
2. On a championship squad, he should be a #2 option. At 34 heading to 35, he will not have that consistent burst speed to blow by his man from the perimeter consistently. But he's setting up so far from the basket that he will have to do so. Clips smartly sent a double to swipe at the ball whenever LBJ did that and he made some bad passes accordingly.
Overall, a bleh game. Last night was a game to set the tone for the season and he sort of let the game pass by him. I still think he will bounce back on Friday but was disappointed that he didn't get up as much for this game in the 3rd/4th Qs. |
👍 |
Great post and spot on.
I think he was out of gas...
Kudos to Green who looks great and brought them back.
LeBron and Davis need to stay away from too much iso ball. It sucks and is too predictable.
The team will be fine. I think they watch the film as a team and they can see all the mistakes. |
ISO ball should be used when things break down, not as a 1st resort. LBJ/AD are too smart of players to be resorting to 1980s/1990s iso ball. They're gifted passers and should be doing other things. how much is that on them or Vogel? Who knows. |
Exactly. I do like that this was the first game. Bring the egos back to earth. Bring the “we better” mentality back to earth.
The team and coaching staff have some work to do but that’s ok...everything will be fine. |
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Of course it's on Vogel. They ran iso so much that I don't see how it wasn't by design. I don't mind giving AD the ball in the mid range area and letting him ISO every now and then, but they did it way too much. That's too easy to guard. What's weird is that they didn't play that way during the preseason.
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