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Hero Ball Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2015 Posts: 4403
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Hey MJST if you are 100% sure LBJ ain't coming here and you are wrong, are you willing NOT to post here in LG as long as he is a Laker?
I'm effing tired of your certainties. _________________ Trade AD now. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:03 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | When the likely alternatives are overpaying non-star players to eat up the comparable cap space, it's not much of a decision if LBJ is willing to join. Magic is banking on getting 2 star players, for better or worse, and if LBJ is willing to join it won't take Magic a millisecond to accept. |
Not disagreeing that he won't be signed if he wishes to join the Lakers.
Just not as enthusiastic as most others in the marketing hype and watching a declining superstar erode before our eyes. Won't be like Kobe. His 20 years of service earned him the respect to close out his years even as his game declined.
James will be a declining mercenary cashing in on a max contract and using the Lakers as a convenient platform for his business interests and increasingly his political activism.
Is signing James about winning another ring or simply the media hype of signing him? This has been my concern all along. Him having a good opening night does nothing to change my opinion. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | When the likely alternatives are overpaying non-star players to eat up the comparable cap space, it's not much of a decision if LBJ is willing to join. Magic is banking on getting 2 star players, for better or worse, and if LBJ is willing to join it won't take Magic a millisecond to accept. |
Not disagreeing that he won't be signed if he wishes to join the Lakers.
Just not as enthusiastic as most others in the marketing hype and watching a declining superstar erode before our eyes. Won't be like Kobe. His 20 years of service earned him the respect to close out his years even as his game declined.
James will be a declining mercenary cashing in on a max contract and using the Lakers as a convenient platform for his business interests and increasingly his political activism.
Is signing James about winning another ring or simply the media hype of signing him? This has been my concern all along. Him having a good opening night does nothing to change my opinion. |
I've been saying that LBJ would decline rapidly for about 4 years now. I think he and Lonzo from a synergy standpoint would be fantastic. Even as he ages, his passing abilities and BBALL IQ will still stand out, and that's why having PG13/BI as the versatile wings will matter. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Hero Ball Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2015 Posts: 4403
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: |
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BTW, that LB Jae Crowder sandwich was deadly.
I hope Hayward can play again. _________________ Trade AD now. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | When the likely alternatives are overpaying non-star players to eat up the comparable cap space, it's not much of a decision if LBJ is willing to join. Magic is banking on getting 2 star players, for better or worse, and if LBJ is willing to join it won't take Magic a millisecond to accept. |
Not disagreeing that he won't be signed if he wishes to join the Lakers.
Just not as enthusiastic as most others in the marketing hype and watching a declining superstar erode before our eyes. Won't be like Kobe. His 20 years of service earned him the respect to close out his years even as his game declined.
James will be a declining mercenary cashing in on a max contract and using the Lakers as a convenient platform for his business interests and increasingly his political activism.
Is signing James about winning another ring or simply the media hype of signing him? This has been my concern all along. Him having a good opening night does nothing to change my opinion. |
Last night he looked all business..
LeBron in more of a PF type role is going to have at least 3 more great years. People need to stop doubting LeBron. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:37 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | When the likely alternatives are overpaying non-star players to eat up the comparable cap space, it's not much of a decision if LBJ is willing to join. Magic is banking on getting 2 star players, for better or worse, and if LBJ is willing to join it won't take Magic a millisecond to accept. |
Not disagreeing that he won't be signed if he wishes to join the Lakers.
Just not as enthusiastic as most others in the marketing hype and watching a declining superstar erode before our eyes. Won't be like Kobe. His 20 years of service earned him the respect to close out his years even as his game declined.
James will be a declining mercenary cashing in on a max contract and using the Lakers as a convenient platform for his business interests and increasingly his political activism.
Is signing James about winning another ring or simply the media hype of signing him? This has been my concern all along. Him having a good opening night does nothing to change my opinion. |
I've been saying that LBJ would decline rapidly for about 4 years now. I think he and Lonzo from a synergy standpoint would be fantastic. Even as he ages, his passing abilities and BBALL IQ will still stand out, and that's why having PG13/BI as the versatile wings will matter. |
To me it is the timeline that always has been the issue. I just don't see the timeline with James working out unless significant changes occur to what are the "assumed" perimeters of his signing.
- will he sign for significantly less or only Max?
- how much of his ego and legacy is he willing to sacrifice to join the Lakers?
- On the flip side, how much are the Lakers willing to sacrifice to appease James and his ego and legacy?
- Sustainability? How small is the window for success even with 2 max?
- most importantly, are they winning a championship with James? Or simply selling the "we are relevant again" message?
- What changes to the roster would need to be made to make them instant competitors? To sustain the James legacy by getting to the Finals year one? Two max and the young core enough?
- What happens if (IMO when) they don't in year one? How motivated is James then?
All the same questions I have had since this concept has been first discussed. I just have different answers then most to the viability of James being a Laker.
When/if he is signed, I continue to think it is about the marketing more then the winning. Magic and Jeannie can proudly claim "look what we did". Revenue will be up in jersey sales and the Lakers will have a few more prime time games. The team can be a mid level playoff team for a couple years until James becomes disinterested in the team and marginal success. Then the aftermath of the decision. Still viable young team with a max player or a gutted rebuilding roster...again? |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.
Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.
2014 - 15
53 - 29
2015 - 16
57 - 25
2016 - 17
51 - 31
The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.
If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | When/if he is signed, I continue to think it is about the marketing more then the winning. Magic and Jeannie can proudly claim "look what we did". Revenue will be up in jersey sales and the Lakers will have a few more prime time games. The team can be a mid level playoff team for a couple years until James becomes disinterested in the team and marginal success. Then the aftermath of the decision. Still viable young team with a max player or a gutted rebuilding roster...again? |
What exactly is being gutted? Deng? JC? Maybe Jules?
And yes, for Jeannie and Magic, they probably care about the "big names."
But the alternative is that we shed a prospect in DLO (and this is already a done deal), and then waste the cap space on non-stars on long deals? I don't see that as a realistic path given the bold proclamations made by this new FO, for better or worse. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.
Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.
2014 - 15
53 - 29
2015 - 16
57 - 25
2016 - 17
51 - 31
The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.
If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer. |
But still, at the end of the day, with LBJ and PG13, the Warriors would be the only team a fan would take over the Lakers. With them on board, would you trade your roster for OKC's, Houston's or the Spurs'? Nope. But it's hard to imagine the Lakers landing Bron and PG13 this summer. Keep expectations down. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's still an incredible longshot that we get LBJ/PG13, but it's 100% clear that's what the FO is doing. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.
Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.
2014 - 15
53 - 29
2015 - 16
57 - 25
2016 - 17
51 - 31
The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.
If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer. |
I agree. It would require at least one of our young core to break out into an all-star level player to become a real contender in the west, even if we add Lebron and PG13. Need a minimum of 3 all-stars to compete. And then hopefully the rest of the young core can at least fill out the remaining roles on the team.
Seems like a major pipedream, but hey I'm tired of losing. If we can add players like Lebron/PG13 without giving up the farm, why not? It would do a lot for their development to see what superstars look like up close, in practice everyday. And to get out of this rut and get a taste of winning for once would give them a psychological lift. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Anyone know if LeBron is interested in the Lakers? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: |
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PRLakeShow wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Nash Vegas wrote: | LeBron on a sore ankle:
29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists
Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here? |
Ha. Seriously. Waiting for a particular poster to put up a wall of text against Lebron. |
And then regurgitating that keeping Randle, KCP, and Lopez is a better option... |
At least that is possible _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | When/if he is signed, I continue to think it is about the marketing more then the winning. Magic and Jeannie can proudly claim "look what we did". Revenue will be up in jersey sales and the Lakers will have a few more prime time games. The team can be a mid level playoff team for a couple years until James becomes disinterested in the team and marginal success. Then the aftermath of the decision. Still viable young team with a max player or a gutted rebuilding roster...again? |
What exactly is being gutted? Deng? JC? Maybe Jules?
And yes, for Jeannie and Magic, they probably care about the "big names."
But the alternative is that we shed a prospect in DLO (and this is already a done deal), and then waste the cap space on non-stars on long deals? I don't see that as a realistic path given the bold proclamations made by this new FO, for better or worse. |
If you haven’t figured out that the broad proclamations by this FO are nothing more than PR then I guess you would hang on every word. What so far has come to pass? Magic was on TV yesterday talking about how we have cap space for two max FAs. We don’t. And it would cost a lot more than Deng, Clarkson and Randle to get there. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | When/if he is signed, I continue to think it is about the marketing more then the winning. Magic and Jeannie can proudly claim "look what we did". Revenue will be up in jersey sales and the Lakers will have a few more prime time games. The team can be a mid level playoff team for a couple years until James becomes disinterested in the team and marginal success. Then the aftermath of the decision. Still viable young team with a max player or a gutted rebuilding roster...again? |
What exactly is being gutted? Deng? JC? Maybe Jules?
And yes, for Jeannie and Magic, they probably care about the "big names."
But the alternative is that we shed a prospect in DLO (and this is already a done deal), and then waste the cap space on non-stars on long deals? I don't see that as a realistic path given the bold proclamations made by this new FO, for better or worse. |
If you haven’t figured out that the broad proclamations by this FO are nothing more than PR then I guess you would hang on every word. What so far has come to pass? Magic was on TV yesterday talking about how we have cap space for two max FAs. We don’t. |
You expect the 2018 FA to happen in 2017 FA?
We've already gone over why it made sense to punt 21m of functional cap space to make it into 65m-ish in 2018. But hey, you're wedded to the previous regime (and I supported them at the time too) than the current FO. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | PRLakeShow wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Nash Vegas wrote: | LeBron on a sore ankle:
29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists
Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here? |
Ha. Seriously. Waiting for a particular poster to put up a wall of text against Lebron. |
And then regurgitating that keeping Randle, KCP, and Lopez is a better option... |
At least that is possible |
Not only possible, but may only be the route they have. I'm also not sure I prefer PG13 over Brook. I think LBJ would mesh very well with Brook. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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There is no 65 million, that is all PR _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | There is no 65 million, that is all PR |
Yet you repeatedly say that the 76ers "can make space for a max."
Why can't the Lakers? All they need to do is stretch Deng and decline Jules and they're close. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | When/if he is signed, I continue to think it is about the marketing more then the winning. Magic and Jeannie can proudly claim "look what we did". Revenue will be up in jersey sales and the Lakers will have a few more prime time games. The team can be a mid level playoff team for a couple years until James becomes disinterested in the team and marginal success. Then the aftermath of the decision. Still viable young team with a max player or a gutted rebuilding roster...again? |
What exactly is being gutted? Deng? JC? Maybe Jules?
And yes, for Jeannie and Magic, they probably care about the "big names."
But the alternative is that we shed a prospect in DLO (and this is already a done deal), and then waste the cap space on non-stars on long deals? I don't see that as a realistic path given the bold proclamations made by this new FO, for better or worse. |
We disagree on the expectations of the roster composition and winning. We always have in this discussion. And i realize the FO is attempting this "all-in" move but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Same as some still do not like the Russell move.
I still do not understand the assumption of winning with James.
For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year?
Now take it out a year. James has another likely deep playoff run on the legs. Assuming George and he will leave their current teams and join the Lakers. Likely lost the same Randle, Clarkson and Deng but now add Pope and quite possibly Lopez to the players moving on. Might as well throw in Brewer too.
Where do you rank that team? Two max and a depleted bench. Will the young players improve enough to keep on the roster? Or are they being moved to bring in vets? Is that team competing? Are they even top 3 in the West?
Timeline continues to not work for me. Perhaps I am way off and they will prove me wrong. I am just not seeing the viability of the plan as others seem to be able to. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year? |
I see them as top 3 in the West in year 1.
Meanwhile Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz all develop with less pressure under LBJ/PG13.
As LBJ/PG13 age, Lonz/BI/Kuz all approach their prime. In 2019 we would have a full MLE as well to add another key rotation player. I can also see Brook staying on the Lakers to add to LBJ/Pg13.
The alternative is probably at best, maybe make the 8th-10th seed for the next 2-3 years. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.
Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.
2014 - 15
53 - 29
2015 - 16
57 - 25
2016 - 17
51 - 31
The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.
If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer. |
If Lebron comes to the Lakers, that means another star is coming,
we look decent as a team or will trade one of our youngsters for a third star, and that the playoffs will be the best 16 teams rather than East and West. They talked about it the past few years, but this season they sound more serious than ever. If Lebron is also in the West, the league would consider redoing the playoff structure more than ever. Look how successful and entertaining the WNBA finals were when two West teams faced each other two seasons in a row. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: |
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There were WNBA Finals? Seriously it is a good thing they didn’t do that in the 80’s, the Lakers might have had less Finals visits. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:01 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year? |
I see them as top 3 in the West in year 1.
Meanwhile Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz all develop with less pressure under LBJ/PG13.
As LBJ/PG13 age, Lonz/BI/Kuz all approach their prime. In 2019 we would have a full MLE as well to add another key rotation player. I can also see Brook staying on the Lakers to add to LBJ/Pg13.
The alternative is probably at best, maybe make the 8th-10th seed for the next 2-3 years. |
Respect the opinion. Even if I disagree.
You (and others) continue to be as optimistic about all the dominoes falling into place with this 2 max /James plan as I am about the Lakers competing for an 8th spot this season.
Maybe we can both be right! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year? |
I see them as top 3 in the West in year 1.
Meanwhile Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz all develop with less pressure under LBJ/PG13.
As LBJ/PG13 age, Lonz/BI/Kuz all approach their prime. In 2019 we would have a full MLE as well to add another key rotation player. I can also see Brook staying on the Lakers to add to LBJ/Pg13.
The alternative is probably at best, maybe make the 8th-10th seed for the next 2-3 years. |
Respect the opinion. Even if I disagree.
You (and others) continue to be as optimistic about all the dominoes falling into place with this 2 max /James plan as I am about the Lakers competing for an 8th spot this season.
Maybe we can both be right! |
We also would have our 2019 1st, and I suspect that and the 2021 1st would be used to further augment a run.
Hypothetically, these would be the additions.
1. LBJ (still a top 2 player right now, likely top 3 next year)
2. PG13 (top 15 player)
3. Brook (I really think he will stay on a bridge deal)
4. 2019 MLE (could get a rotation player with a full MLE)
5. 2019 1st
6. 2021 1st
7. natural improvement of Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz/Hart.
OUT
1. Deng ('nuff said)
2. JC
3. Jules
4. opportunity cost to spend cap space on non-stars.
I think we are on the whole, a better squad. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: |
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This thread is bizarre. Lebron is coming here because Ohio voted for Trump. But only if the NBA adopts the playoff structure of the WNBA. Is this real life? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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