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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.

Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.

2014 - 15
53 - 29

2015 - 16
57 - 25

2016 - 17
51 - 31


The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.

If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer.


But still, at the end of the day, with LBJ and PG13, the Warriors would be the only team a fan would take over the Lakers. With them on board, would you trade your roster for OKC's, Houston's or the Spurs'? Nope. But it's hard to imagine the Lakers landing Bron and PG13 this summer. Keep expectations down.



The 2013 - 14 Cleveland team had chemistry - locker room issues and probably could have picked up a few more wins if they were functioning just slightly better. Let us be conservative and give then two more wins if they were a better functioning team which would have made them a 35 - 47 team.

LeBron and Love were able to move Cleveland forward by 20 wins with 18 wins attributed to upgrading the talent & focus with 2 wins attributed to improving on the chemistry & locker room issues.

If the Lakers go 30 - 52 this season with the major restraints being not enough talent and playing in the Western Conference, that is giving LeBron & friend less to work with in a turn around than he had several years ago in Cleveland. Russell is already gone and Randle appears to be the only player who might become unhappy on the current roster.

For LeBron & friend to improve the W/L record to 50 - 32 by improving the talent & focus and hardly anything on the chemistry & locker room side is going to be tough.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
This thread is bizarre. Lebron is coming here because Ohio voted for Trump. But only if the NBA adopts the playoff structure of the WNBA. Is this real life?


Yes. Pick and choose the arguments.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject:

Quote:

For LeBron & friend to improve the W/L record to 50 - 32 by improving the talent & focus and hardly anything on the chemistry & locker room side is going to be tough.


3rd year Ingram should improve tremendously IMO.

2nd year Lonzo/Kuz as well.
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.

Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.

2014 - 15
53 - 29

2015 - 16
57 - 25

2016 - 17
51 - 31


The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.

If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer.


If Lebron comes to the Lakers, that means another star is coming,
we look decent as a team or will trade one of our youngsters for a third star, and that the playoffs will be the best 16 teams rather than East and West. They talked about it the past few years, but this season they sound more serious than ever. If Lebron is also in the West, the league would consider redoing the playoff structure more than ever. Look how successful and entertaining the WNBA finals were when two West teams faced each other two seasons in a row.


Since most if not all of the major salary was moved out to create the cap space for LeBron & friend, it will be difficult to pull enough salary together to trade for a third star unless Ball is part of the package.

On a talent - value consideration, it is difficult to see a trade for a third star being possible without Ball being included.
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:

For LeBron & friend to improve the W/L record to 50 - 32 by improving the talent & focus and hardly anything on the chemistry & locker room side is going to be tough.


3rd year Ingram should improve tremendously IMO.

2nd year Lonzo/Kuz as well.



Irving & Thompson improved while Mozgov, Shumpert and Smith were brought in via trades.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:

For LeBron & friend to improve the W/L record to 50 - 32 by improving the talent & focus and hardly anything on the chemistry & locker room side is going to be tough.


3rd year Ingram should improve tremendously IMO.

2nd year Lonzo/Kuz as well.



Irving & Thompson improved while Mozgov, Shumpert and Smith were brought in via trades.


Right. But that's why I think in 2018 we will be a top 3 seed, but be a work in progress. That 2019 full MLE will be important to add a vet to the rotation (and maybe the 2019 1st will yield another Kuz level player ).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
This thread is bizarre. Lebron is coming here because Ohio voted for Trump. But only if the NBA adopts the playoff structure of the WNBA. Is this real life?


this thread is a joke.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year?


I see them as top 3 in the West in year 1.

Meanwhile Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz all develop with less pressure under LBJ/PG13.

As LBJ/PG13 age, Lonz/BI/Kuz all approach their prime. In 2019 we would have a full MLE as well to add another key rotation player. I can also see Brook staying on the Lakers to add to LBJ/Pg13.

The alternative is probably at best, maybe make the 8th-10th seed for the next 2-3 years.


Respect the opinion. Even if I disagree.

You (and others) continue to be as optimistic about all the dominoes falling into place with this 2 max /James plan as I am about the Lakers competing for an 8th spot this season.

Maybe we can both be right!


We also would have our 2019 1st, and I suspect that and the 2021 1st would be used to further augment a run.

Hypothetically, these would be the additions.

1. LBJ (still a top 2 player right now, likely top 3 next year)
2. PG13 (top 15 player)
3. Brook (I really think he will stay on a bridge deal)
4. 2019 MLE (could get a rotation player with a full MLE)
5. 2019 1st
6. 2021 1st
7. natural improvement of Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz/Hart.

OUT
1. Deng ('nuff said)
2. JC
3. Jules
4. opportunity cost to spend cap space on non-stars.

I think we are on the whole, a better squad.


We just see the timeline differently.

I do not see James still playing past 2020. Or if he is the decline is evident and the Lakers are paying $40M + on a shell of the man we are looking at now. How many years before James has to make that transition from dominant game changer to talented complimentary player. Look at Malone and Garnett as examples that did it gracefully but still struggled none the less. Or is he unable to do that and be more like Kobe. Re-living the glory years but unable to deliver the wins. As I said earlier, Kobe earned that privilege with the Lakers.

Are those 1st round picks that are likely in the mid 20s if they are winning 50 games going to be used for the future or used in trades for the 2010/21 versions of R. Jefferson or D. Williams?

Still my opinion that James is only realistic as an all-in move. Not as a mentoring move for the young core. Whats the point of that? That means if the Lakers and James goal is to win it puts every player on the table for win now vets.

They live or die with that decision of a short couple year run. Then look like the Heat or Cavs. The remnants of a roster competitive roster. Maybe a couple promising players and a few bloated vet contracts that do not fit the rebuild the franchise is about to embark on. Any "friend" that came with him is likely to have an opt out in their contract and be looking for greener pastures.

Just to add another thought to this speculation. I would not be shocked to see James decide to retire after this season. One more deep run and Finals. Win or lose. Then call it a career.


Last edited by Four Decade Bandwagon on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
This thread is bizarre. Lebron is coming here because Ohio voted for Trump. But only if the NBA adopts the playoff structure of the WNBA. Is this real life?


makes complete sound logical sense to me
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LeBron on a sore ankle:

29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists

Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here?


He's not coming.


Can you give us the lottery numbers too.
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KobeDunk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject:

don't want this guy to come, honestly if he was 25 years old yes but not now.

He won't come out west, especially not to the Lakers who will probably be a lottery team again. He has it good out east, no real competition to get to countless Finals. In the west he would have to try to carry a Lakers team past so many tough teams. Not gonna happen folks!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
For fun, lets play with a hypothetical. Take Randle, Clarkson and Deng off the team this year. Add James and George. Were do you think they end up in the playoffs? Maybe a mid range spot. Would they even earn a home court advantage in the West this year?


I see them as top 3 in the West in year 1.

Meanwhile Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz all develop with less pressure under LBJ/PG13.

As LBJ/PG13 age, Lonz/BI/Kuz all approach their prime. In 2019 we would have a full MLE as well to add another key rotation player. I can also see Brook staying on the Lakers to add to LBJ/Pg13.

The alternative is probably at best, maybe make the 8th-10th seed for the next 2-3 years.


Respect the opinion. Even if I disagree.

You (and others) continue to be as optimistic about all the dominoes falling into place with this 2 max /James plan as I am about the Lakers competing for an 8th spot this season.

Maybe we can both be right!


We also would have our 2019 1st, and I suspect that and the 2021 1st would be used to further augment a run.

Hypothetically, these would be the additions.

1. LBJ (still a top 2 player right now, likely top 3 next year)
2. PG13 (top 15 player)
3. Brook (I really think he will stay on a bridge deal)
4. 2019 MLE (could get a rotation player with a full MLE)
5. 2019 1st
6. 2021 1st
7. natural improvement of Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz/Hart.

OUT
1. Deng ('nuff said)
2. JC
3. Jules
4. opportunity cost to spend cap space on non-stars.

I think we are on the whole, a better squad.


I love you optimism and a few weeks ago I thought this was all very likely... but IMO that possibility feels over. Magic's let his ego get involved and didn't make the right trade for PG using Ingram/Deng. (If that had happened and we signed a couple good 1 year deals this year, I think we could have been closer to a 40 win team. Going into summer 18, with max cap for LeBron and some leftover for Brook as a FA (after trade JC for cap and stretching Moz).)

Right now, it looks like PG is staying in OKC and I cannot see LeBron wanting to come here to play with our sorry roster-- even plus Cousins.
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kobe_4_mvp
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LeBron on a sore ankle:

29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists

Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here?


He's not coming.


Can you give us the lottery numbers too.


can the 50 posters who are certain he's coming give lottery numbers?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Cleveland was 33 - 49 for the 2013 - 14 season.

Then LeBron and Love joined the team in summer 2014.

2014 - 15
53 - 29

2015 - 16
57 - 25

2016 - 17
51 - 31


The next few seasons in the Western Conference will be tougher than the past few seasons in the Eastern conference.

If the current roster (Lakers) is unable to get much beyond 30 wins this season, then it will likely be a tough journey to quickly get to the top even with LeBron and Paul George (or similar) added to the roster next summer.


But still, at the end of the day, with LBJ and PG13, the Warriors would be the only team a fan would take over the Lakers. With them on board, would you trade your roster for OKC's, Houston's or the Spurs'? Nope. But it's hard to imagine the Lakers landing Bron and PG13 this summer. Keep expectations down.



The 2013 - 14 Cleveland team had chemistry - locker room issues and probably could have picked up a few more wins if they were functioning just slightly better. Let us be conservative and give then two more wins if they were a better functioning team which would have made them a 35 - 47 team.

LeBron and Love were able to move Cleveland forward by 20 wins with 18 wins attributed to upgrading the talent & focus with 2 wins attributed to improving on the chemistry & locker room issues.

If the Lakers go 30 - 52 this season with the major restraints being not enough talent and playing in the Western Conference, that is giving LeBron & friend less to work with in a turn around than he had several years ago in Cleveland. Russell is already gone and Randle appears to be the only player who might become unhappy on the current roster.

For LeBron & friend to improve the W/L record to 50 - 32 by improving the talent & focus and hardly anything on the chemistry & locker room side is going to be tough.


Not really doubting what you're saying. To sum it up, it's going to be hard. All I'm saying is that if you really landed LBJ and PG13 to go along with Lonzo, Ingram, Kyle... Would you trade your core for any other core in the NBA other than the Warriors? If Maginka can pull this off, it's a good problem to have.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LeBron on a sore ankle:

29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists

Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here?


He's not coming.


Can you give us the lottery numbers too.


can the 50 posters who are certain he's coming give lottery numbers?


I don't think it's a guarantee he's coming, nor is it a sure thing that he's not. I believe it's 50/50.

I just chuckle (mostly) at the posts who don't want him for basketball reasons.
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject:

I also have this gut feeling that the all-star format change is just the beginning. Lebron going West will simply be a catalyst to reform the playoff seedings. I have no doubt that if LBJ goes West, to the Lakers or whoever, there is no way in hell, the NBA won't change how playoff seedings are done. Those who are saying that Bron won't move because he has an easy path are not considering that playoff format and NBA schedule would change because of his move.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
LeBron on a sore ankle:

29 points
16 rebounds
9 assists

Plays clutch defense in the 4th quarter, and yet some Lakers fans still don't want him to come here?


He's not coming.


Can you give us the lottery numbers too.


can the 50 posters who are certain he's coming give lottery numbers?




Nobody is certain and that's the point.

To post otherwise is just being a prick*




*derogatory term used to sum up the existence of a worthless (bleep).
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:

Not really doubting what you're saying. To sum it up, it's going to be hard. All I'm saying is that if you really landed LBJ and PG13 to go along with Lonzo, Ingram, Kyle... Would you trade your core for any other core in the NBA other than the Warriors? If Maginka can pull this off, it's a good problem to have.



Too early to tell where this core ranks compared to others around the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
This thread is bizarre. Lebron is coming here because Ohio voted for Trump. But only if the NBA adopts the playoff structure of the WNBA. Is this real life?


Why would he not come? I mean the rare opportunity to carry a
rookie team while in your 30's, to be on a very sub 500% team,
to let your wheels fall off, etc., etc.

The glamour is there, so why not believe?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
I also have this gut feeling that the all-star format change is just the beginning. Lebron going West will simply be a catalyst to reform the playoff seedings. I have no doubt that if LBJ goes West, to the Lakers or whoever, there is no way in hell, the NBA won't change how playoff seedings are done. Those who are saying that Bron won't move because he has an easy path are not considering that playoff format and NBA schedule would change because of his move.


Maybe that is because they know playoff seeding won’t change?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
I also have this gut feeling that the all-star format change is just the beginning. Lebron going West will simply be a catalyst to reform the playoff seedings. I have no doubt that if LBJ goes West, to the Lakers or whoever, there is no way in hell, the NBA won't change how playoff seedings are done. Those who are saying that Bron won't move because he has an easy path are not considering that playoff format and NBA schedule would change because of his move.


Maybe that is because they know playoff seeding won’t change?


Yes, that's most likely the case.

If he does move West, I can't imagine the league moving forward as such. They've already changed the all-star format. Silver has already started talking about how playoff seeding and a balanced schedule will have to be discussed eventually. If Lebron moves West, I would imagine they would have that "discussion" immediately. I'd love to see Lebron go West, even if it's to the Clippers. I'd like to see what the league does about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

that all star format change is heaven sent...so will the playoffs format change if true
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject:

I never thought Silver would be this "revolutionary".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject:

What's not being discussed here is Lin's season ending injury. That Brooklyn team is going to be real bad, which raises the chances Cleveland gets a very high pick next year.

I still see Lebron giving a wink-wink to mgmt to trade that for another all-star, even if he leaves the year after. Lebron's manipulated mgmt before and walked away unscathed. What are they gonna do, write another comic sans letter?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Think we can lock this thread.
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