LeBron James Watch: (Woj: LeBron to Lakers a target; Bucher: Execs expect LBJ to leave Cavs for Lakers - p.82)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If they extend Covington, won't that eat into their cap space? (IIRC they are working on an in-season extension for him).


Not until he signs.


Isn't that implied by working on an extension?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject:

Lebron James next year in P&G. NO thank you.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
Lebron James next year in P&G. NO thank you.


as a FA signing... you say no to a top 3 current NBA player? why not?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Lebron James next year in P&G. NO thank you.


as a FA signing... you say no to a top 3 current NBA player? why not?


B/c being in the non-playoff desert for the past 4 (likely 5) years has disoriented us.

There is no way Magic turns down LBJ if he wants to come.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
32 wrote:
<Deleted by 32>


damn, you have to hold the LG world record for deleted posts....wait, I think that was you that always use to delete your posts...right?


That was ming
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Lebron James next year in P&G. NO thank you.


as a FA signing... you say no to a top 3 current NBA player? why not?


Its just my personal wish. I never liked him and never will. Great player but I do not want someone who will come to the Lakers and think he is above everyone and the club. Lakers are much more than that at least for me personally.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
blackmamba08 wrote:
Lebron James next year in P&G. NO thank you.


as a FA signing... you say no to a top 3 current NBA player? why not?


Not as crazy as it sounds IMO. Much depends on the goals and expectations.

- Are the Lakers signing him to win or for marketing a James Farewell Tour?

- Are they paying him $40M and adopting a "win now" attitude that guts the team for a short term run?

- Can they compete for a Championship in 1-2 years? How many changes with the roster, system and coaching will be needed to do so?

- What would be the expectations of system and mpg with James? Already over 54,000 career mins played by the time he signs. How many mpg can you expect for how long? Can the Lakers compete in the West with him taking games off? Or reducing his mpg? Slowing the pace?

I understand that James sounds like a no-brainer obvious decision to most. IMO it isn't. Especially if the goal is to win. To make headlines sure. I would hope the FO looks long and hard at the realities of signing James and all the dominoes that would likely fall afterward.

Under certain situations I would be all for it. Less money, willing to work with the roster instead of revamping it, less drama and attention seeking.

Doubt he is capable of meeting any of those parameters. With the signing you also get the traveling show. Only in his declining years instead of the prime ones. Think long and hard on this one. Franchise changer in a lot of ways not all of them positive as many seem to think.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:05 am    Post subject:

Are we looking at it from a prescriptive (i.e. "this is what I would do) or predictive (i.e. "this is what Magic would do) angle?

It's cool from a prescriptive standpoint to have varying plans, but can we all agree from a predictive standpoint, if LBJ tells Magic he wants to be a Laker, there is a 100% chance it will happen?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Are we looking at it from a prescriptive (i.e. "this is what I would do) or predictive (i.e. "this is what Magic would do) angle?

It's cool from a prescriptive standpoint to have varying plans, but can we all agree from a predictive standpoint, if LBJ tells Magic he wants to be a Laker, there is a 100% chance it will happen?


I agree it is highly likely he does it. Even if it is IMO a bad franchise move. I continue to think it is more 95/5 though. With a small chance the ramifications of the signing become evident and he comes to his senses.

The more realistic ending is Magic is saved from the fiasco by James simply retiring or staying in CLE.

That has been my concern from day one. Magic and Jeanie's primary motive. To make headlines or win. James is a quick fix panic move IMO. Much more desperate then showing some patience over a longer run. But that is hard to sell to a fast food mentality fanbase and a fickle media.

I continue to be against the James signing because of the timing and dramatic moves to make it a reasonable move. In all fairness, I would not be opposed if I thought for a second the goal was for James to sign for a discount, with another FA at a discount and they came to be a "part" of something being developed instead of with the intentions of dramatically altering the roster to fit them for a short term run. Then leave the Lakers in shambles.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject:

Personally I'm not crazy about Lebron for the reasons FDB eloquently laid out above. At this point the front office has already made moves towards that end, so we are pot committed and have to see it through. Our FO has already made the decision and it's entirely up to Lebron.

If Lebron joins it will just be a circus show. He can't keep up with the pace we're playing and he'll be asking for back-to-backs off most likely.

The FO knows we already have a large diehard fanbase, but luring in Lebron would bring in a stampede of mainstream fans. They see dollar signs, and can't blame them. This is a business afterall.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

James could be up to triggering the over 38 rule which would affect any team he signs with. He wants to be an owner, does he pull an MJ and find an owner who will allow him to buy in after his playing days? I would have no idea who that team would be.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject:

People commenting they don't want Lebron are hilarious. First off, if Lebron wants to sign here (giant, massive if), 10000% Pelinka/Earvin do it. It'll only happen if they get a second guy. That guy has to be Paul George, who is the best of the under 30 year old free agents. With second year Ball, third year Ingram, Kuzma and Nance, you have a contender.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I donít mind pg/boogie but you know there is a 0% chance magic turns downs LBJ if he wants to join the Lakers.


And he shouldn't turn him down either, that would be lunacy.


Sorry. Anyone who turns down Lebron at this point in time shouldn't make decisions for a front office.


And anyone who thinks we will have the choice to turn down Lebron in favor of other FAs needs to take a huge step towards reality.


It's comical frankly. If the Lakers are considered by any prospective top tier free agent, they should be thrilled.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Personally I'm not crazy about Lebron for the reasons FDB eloquently laid out above. At this point the front office has already made moves towards that end, so we are pot committed and have to see it through. Our FO has already made the decision and it's entirely up to Lebron.

If Lebron joins it will just be a circus show. He can't keep up with the pace we're playing and he'll be asking for back-to-backs off most likely.


Did you watch the game last night against NY? The younger Knicks, hell 25 year old Tim Hardaway Jr couldn't even keep up with 33 year old LeBron, and he's a guard. Most of the NBA today still can't keep up with LeBron.

Man, comments like this are head scratchers.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
People commenting they don't want Lebron are hilarious. First off, if Lebron wants to sign here (giant, massive if), 10000% Pelinka/Earvin do it. It'll only happen if they get a second guy. That guy has to be Paul George, who is the best of the under 30 year old free agents. With second year Ball, third year Ingram, Kuzma and Nance, you have a contender.


Do they contend?

That roster competes in the West next year? The year after? For how long do you envision them contending?

No concerns of bench or roster chemistry? No concerns for patience of the development of young players? Or the integration of the likely replacement "ring chasing vets on the cheap". What role do they play or mins do they take?

What happens as James declines? How long is he realistically playing as the primary focus of the team, or at all? After quality roster has been cleared to afford him and the "other max FA" what happens when he retires? Does the max vet stay or opt out looking for the next "contender"?

I understand it is highly unlikely they would turn him down or this is the plan we have to look forward to over the next couple years. But I find it "hilarious" how quickly some continue to blindly jump on board without at least acknowledging there is a risk if not a probability the Lakers built around James competes for anything beyond a second round exit.

Even those supporting the move typically refer to the business side of the decision over the chances of winning a ring. Perhaps you see your hypothetical roster contending. I remain skeptical.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

On the other hand, what is the chance that a team that overpays to keep Brook/Jules/KCP even makes the playoffs, let alone contends?

Safe to say, IMHO, that getting a LBJ/PG13 duo gives you a better chance, even if it may not ultimately get you there.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
On the other hand, what is the chance that a team that overpays to keep Brook/Jules/KCP even makes the playoffs, let alone contends?

Safe to say, IMHO, that getting a LBJ/PG13 duo gives you a better chance, even if it may not ultimately get you there.


all 3 are useless and can go. none of them plays winning bb. maybe kcp but thats about it
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
People commenting they don't want Lebron are hilarious. First off, if Lebron wants to sign here (giant, massive if), 10000% Pelinka/Earvin do it. It'll only happen if they get a second guy. That guy has to be Paul George, who is the best of the under 30 year old free agents. With second year Ball, third year Ingram, Kuzma and Nance, you have a contender.


Do they contend?

That roster competes in the West next year? The year after? For how long do you envision them contending?

No concerns of bench or roster chemistry? No concerns for patience of the development of young players? Or the integration of the likely replacement "ring chasing vets on the cheap". What role do they play or mins do they take?

What happens as James declines? How long is he realistically playing as the primary focus of the team, or at all? After quality roster has been cleared to afford him and the "other max FA" what happens when he retires? Does the max vet stay or opt out looking for the next "contender"?

I understand it is highly unlikely they would turn him down or this is the plan we have to look forward to over the next couple years. But I find it "hilarious" how quickly some continue to blindly jump on board without at least acknowledging there is a risk if not a probability the Lakers built around James competes for anything beyond a second round exit.

Even those supporting the move typically refer to the business side of the decision over the chances of winning a ring. Perhaps you see your hypothetical roster contending. I remain skeptical.


Yes, I do. Lebron is still a top 3 player showing no signs of slowing down and will likely be elite for his tenure here, prob 3-4 years tops. George is one of the best players in the league, look at what he did the last couple of nights not playing will ball hog cancer Carmelo.

I understand, and your other points are legit. But honestly, who cares? You think this core is going to develop into a championship contender? I have hopes for Ball, Ingram and Kuzma, but only Ball looks like a future potential star, and that's a giant leap right now. You want them to play it safe and resign KCP and Lopez and pray they make the 8th seed next year to get crushed? This is a star driven league. As of right now, Lakers aren't close to having one.

Again, all this is moot. But anyone who thinks this front office wouldn't salivate if Lebron indicates he'd come here is delusional. This is their play, so look for Randle and Clarkson to be dealt this year.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject:

I like Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz a lot, but I don't see them at the Simmons/Embiid level. If we had those two, perhaps we can "pass" on 2 max and even PG13 would just come by himself.

Our guys will need more time to prove themselves, which is why I think it's 2 stars or 0 stars.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
People commenting they don't want Lebron are hilarious. First off, if Lebron wants to sign here (giant, massive if), 10000% Pelinka/Earvin do it. It'll only happen if they get a second guy. That guy has to be Paul George, who is the best of the under 30 year old free agents. With second year Ball, third year Ingram, Kuzma and Nance, you have a contender.


Do they contend?

That roster competes in the West next year? The year after? For how long do you envision them contending?

No concerns of bench or roster chemistry? No concerns for patience of the development of young players? Or the integration of the likely replacement "ring chasing vets on the cheap". What role do they play or mins do they take?

What happens as James declines? How long is he realistically playing as the primary focus of the team, or at all? After quality roster has been cleared to afford him and the "other max FA" what happens when he retires? Does the max vet stay or opt out looking for the next "contender"?

I understand it is highly unlikely they would turn him down or this is the plan we have to look forward to over the next couple years. But I find it "hilarious" how quickly some continue to blindly jump on board without at least acknowledging there is a risk if not a probability the Lakers built around James competes for anything beyond a second round exit.

Even those supporting the move typically refer to the business side of the decision over the chances of winning a ring. Perhaps you see your hypothetical roster contending. I remain skeptical.


Def risks vs rewards situation. I think the best case scenario if we can hang on to some of the youths (Lonzo/BI/Kuzma leading contender of being kept at this point) then it becomes signing/keeping other youths (Nance/Randle/KCP/Zubac/Hart/Bryant/picks) vs signing LBJ + his preferred vets
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
On the other hand, what is the chance that a team that overpays to keep Brook/Jules/KCP even makes the playoffs, let alone contends?

Safe to say, IMHO, that getting a LBJ/PG13 duo gives you a better chance, even if it may not ultimately get you there.


Safe to say there are multiple variables in play.

- Why are you assuming "overpaying" for any or all of them? For all we know all three may combine to sign for approximately what it would cost to sign James alone.

In all livelihood for multiple years for the sake of continuity instead of James having an opt out every year to hold over management and continually increase his salary for the Farewell Tour.

- no guarantees and inherent risk with any team building plan. I simply prefer a longer term continuity. One that continually builds to a young developing core and climbs the playoff seeding over a few years.

- Still not determined that any FA is available or signing with the Lakers. Our argument of James being the Savior is still premature.

Still prefer a George addition to this team. Despite the widely accepted "not joining w/o another max FA" argument. Not convinced he might not be convinced by Magic and Pelinka to join the developing team.

Then re-sign those that make sense in chemistry and salary. Add role playing free agents as needed. Team remain deep, balanced and improving for a few years.

My hypothetical has just as much a possibility of contending as the James plan. Only not as headline grabbing or enticing to fantasize about.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
On the other hand, what is the chance that a team that overpays to keep Brook/Jules/KCP even makes the playoffs, let alone contends?

Safe to say, IMHO, that getting a LBJ/PG13 duo gives you a better chance, even if it may not ultimately get you there.


There's a segment of the fan base that are beaten down by the garbage and unwatchable basketball of the last few years. Putting way too much stock in young players with limited upside. Julius Randle is just another guy, he's not going to be a Laker next year.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject:

TheeChosenLonzo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
On the other hand, what is the chance that a team that overpays to keep Brook/Jules/KCP even makes the playoffs, let alone contends?

Safe to say, IMHO, that getting a LBJ/PG13 duo gives you a better chance, even if it may not ultimately get you there.


all 3 are useless and can go. none of them plays winning bb. maybe kcp but thats about it


None of them will be here next year. Lopez and KCP are rent a veterans and both will want multi year deals. Randle is replaceable with Nance and Kuzma and he's a very limited player.

Even if you don't land a big fish, resigning these guys for multiple years is just sinking your organization. Then again, Kupchak signed Deng and Mozgov.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
James could be up to triggering the over 38 rule which would affect any team he signs with. He wants to be an owner, does he pull an MJ and find an owner who will allow him to buy in after his playing days? I would have no idea who that team would be.

Buying in and owning a small share isn't what he's looking for, he wants to be the owner. To do that he needs more money. LA gives him the greatest opportunity for pre and post career income to enable that.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
James could be up to triggering the over 38 rule which would affect any team he signs with. He wants to be an owner, does he pull an MJ and find an owner who will allow him to buy in after his playing days? I would have no idea who that team would be.

Buying in and owning a small share isn't what he's looking for, he wants to be the owner. To do that he needs more money. LA gives him the greatest opportunity for pre and post career income to enable that.


As I compared him to MJ, part ownership was a step toward owning a team. It is hard to guess what team will be for sale in the next 5-8 years. It is a small club and turnover isnít often. Maybe the Pelicans, I am a huge Saints fan and they showed Mr. Benson on a Saintís broadcast a few weeks ago and he has really aged. If you put a winner in that market you will have loyal fans. When the Saints came home from the airport Sunday after beating the Bills the fans had a parade for them. After a normal regular season game. If Lebron signs there to build goodwill with the agreement that he will buy the team once it is for sale, he might be able to go from player to owner in one season.
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