So Irving told them a week ago and then LBJ goes to LA vs Phi summer league..
Then we agree to let BJ Armstrong use us as leverage for his client (Rose) who is someone Cleveland is looking at in the wake of Kyrie requesting a trade. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
So, guess Lebron is scaring players away. Tsk tsk.
Probably more of the fact LeBron requires his teammates pledge their devotion and they all see him inching his way out of town. Kyrie is smart to force the situation. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
I think Nance, other than Ball, is the guy most likely to be kept if we land Lebron. The one I worry about most is Ingram tbh.
I feel B.I and Lonzo are untouchable in Magic's eyes. But you really never know what's gonna happen or what deals will be on the table.
Best to wait it out imo and let Lebron come here on his own when he's a free agent next summer.
Well, they should be. But I just don't get the sense in having BI, if you have LBJ and Paul George on your team. For how many years is BI coming off the bench? 3? That will slow his development.
This is why I was not in favor of the 2 superstar plan. The only true superstars available are generally duplicative of the budding stars we supposedly have.
I'd prefer a plan that maybe involves one superstar and then complimentary players that would be considered sub-superstar.
I think Nance, other than Ball, is the guy most likely to be kept if we land Lebron. The one I worry about most is Ingram tbh.
I feel B.I and Lonzo are untouchable in Magic's eyes. But you really never know what's gonna happen or what deals will be on the table.
Best to wait it out imo and let Lebron come here on his own when he's a free agent next summer.
Well, they should be. But I just don't get the sense in having BI, if you have LBJ and Paul George on your team. For how many years is BI coming off the bench? 3? That will slow his development.
This is why I was not in favor of the 2 superstar plan. The only true superstars available are generally duplicative of the budding stars we supposedly have.
I'd prefer a plan that maybe involves one superstar and then complimentary players that would be considered sub-superstar.
If we truly want to move towards positionless basketball, then you don't bench B.I. with that roster. I'd have absolutely no worries about switching on defense with B.I., PG13 and Lebron all on the floor at the same time. "Smallball" lineup could be:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Lebron
Nance?
Not many teams can score on that lineup when they can switch everything, except maybe the few who have scoring centers like KAT/Embiid. We'll need a mobile big who can rebound and protect the rim against those teams.
exactly, no Kuzma either. the only reason some fans are ok with kuzma being gone is that they dont know what he is yet. And they don't have that kind of foresight, nor patience.
If kuzma is who i think he is. NO.if he isnt. i guess i made a mistake. oh well. we'll survive without bron. it would be one thing if gstate didnt exist and we would become the only gstate team in the nba. thats not the case. we are going to need more than lonzo ball at peak, bron, and pg13 to beat those warriors.
I think Nance, other than Ball, is the guy most likely to be kept if we land Lebron. The one I worry about most is Ingram tbh.
I feel B.I and Lonzo are untouchable in Magic's eyes. But you really never know what's gonna happen or what deals will be on the table.
Best to wait it out imo and let Lebron come here on his own when he's a free agent next summer.
Well, they should be. But I just don't get the sense in having BI, if you have LBJ and Paul George on your team. For how many years is BI coming off the bench? 3? That will slow his development.
This is why I was not in favor of the 2 superstar plan. The only true superstars available are generally duplicative of the budding stars we supposedly have.
I'd prefer a plan that maybe involves one superstar and then complimentary players that would be considered sub-superstar.
bron is the size of a PF. he can play without getting in BI's way. BI is a better setup the offense guy than pg13 is right now.
so that means. BI aint stepping on anyones toes.
--We will not be, and should not be, in the potential trade market for acquiring Kyrie. We are in the LeBron business, and I think that's abundantly clear.
--We are not trading Lonzo or Ingram, for anyone. I mean, I could sit here and try to rationalize an Ingram-for-Anthony Davis trade or something, but let's be real...these 2 guys are untouchable for us, and Magic has said as much. He's not bluffing with that. He never said Dlo was untouchable and he got shipped out. Ingram and Lonzo are not getting shipped out.
--I do agree with other posters in previous pages of this thread who have said that it wouldn't be out of the logical realm of possibility that the Cavs could entertain the thought of building around Kyrie going forward and actually considering cutting the cord on LeBron now, especially if they are certain that he's leaving anyway next summer. Sure, they could try to make one more Finals run this season, but with an unhappy Kyrie-and-LeBron pairing, how is that going to work, especially if one or both of them don't have their hearts in it? And if they do choose to trade Kyrie and keep LeBron for a try at one more run at it, number one, they simply may not be as good, number two, LeBron's heart simply may not be in it at this point and they have to at least consider that, and number three, they have to know that they would be facing the very real possibility that they would then lose both Kyrie and LeBron by the end of next summer and then the franchise is horrifically damaged and starting at square one.
--So, in the event that the Cavs pull a 2004 Lakers and decide to choose Kyrie, where Kyrie agrees to the DPE "supermax" and they decide to make the stunning decision to get what they can for LeBron, and if LeBron wanted to try to come to the Lakers right now with his no-trade clause...I'm offering Deng and JC (both would have to go for salary reasons anyway) and then anything from the following list: Randle, Nance, Zubac, Bryant. They can also get the following draft picks: 2018 DEN 2nd, 2019 CHI 2nd, 2020 top-10 protected 1st.
--In a theoretical LeBron trade, I would not be willing to include Kuzma under any circumstances. LeBron would have the no-trade so he has some leverage, Kuzma looks like he could be the second-coming of Robert Horry or maybe better, and I am simply not willing to include him since I am in lust with his upside. So along with taking the Deng salary, the Cavs would get up to 5 players for LeBron and 3 draft picks, 1 of which was a first rounder. As for the Lakers, we get LeBron now while shedding the salary that we needed to shed in Deng/JC. The salary cap space would still be outstanding for next summer, and as for the draft picks we give up, we were going to give that up in a Deng salary dump anyway. We'd lose some other players, but as long as we still have Ball and Ingram and Kuzma and Hart and likely one of Zu/Bryant, we still have quite a young stable of talent to go along with LeBron and Lopez and KCP (and possibly Rose) this season, and then next year we likely get Paul George and whatever else we can with the cap space.
Thank You. truth is. to pull it off where the cavs are at least remotely happy under the circumstances. would be to include a 3rd or 4th team. someone that could use randle or JC. but are willing to give up a pick. then that pick could go to the cavs. because if you keep kyrie or dont and get rid of him and bron. it means you're starting over. bottoming out heading for the lottery. so you're trying to repeat the celtics or 76ers setup. a bunch of picks.
I think Nance, other than Ball, is the guy most likely to be kept if we land Lebron. The one I worry about most is Ingram tbh.
I feel B.I and Lonzo are untouchable in Magic's eyes. But you really never know what's gonna happen or what deals will be on the table.
Best to wait it out imo and let Lebron come here on his own when he's a free agent next summer.
Well, they should be. But I just don't get the sense in having BI, if you have LBJ and Paul George on your team. For how many years is BI coming off the bench? 3? That will slow his development.
This is why I was not in favor of the 2 superstar plan. The only true superstars available are generally duplicative of the budding stars we supposedly have.
I'd prefer a plan that maybe involves one superstar and then complimentary players that would be considered sub-superstar.
If we truly want to move towards positionless basketball, then you don't bench B.I. with that roster. I'd have absolutely no worries about switching on defense with B.I., PG13 and Lebron all on the floor at the same time. "Smallball" lineup could be:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Lebron
Nance?
Not many teams can score on that lineup when they can switch everything, except maybe the few who have scoring centers like KAT/Embiid. We'll need a mobile big who can rebound and protect the rim against those teams.
Position-less basketball is kind of an overstated term IMO. Its more like position flexibility. I just can't see BI at the 2.
Brandon is a wing player to me and beat suited at 3. I don't want to be playing him out of position for much of his esrly years.
Small update from WOJ....article published today about Kryie and Lerbon....
Quote:
With James refusing to commit to Cleveland beyond the coming season, and with the growing verdict that James is intrigued with pursuing a Los Angeles Lakers exit plan, Irving has become proactive in controlling his own career arc. The Cavaliers are constructed to play a slow, half-court game around James, personnel ill-suited to transition into an up-tempo style with Irving as the centerpiece. The Cavs are paying Tristan Thompson and J.R. Smith, James' Klutch Sports clients, for significant deals, and those contracts won't easily leave the Cavaliers' books.
Funny thing is with Lonzo LA is poised to at or near the top of the league in pace and James would essentially be the half court offense. Too late for Cleveland to rebuild the roster to support such a dual approach because it requires versatile wings/forwards who can shoot. Those aren't easy to come by.
LA has several in the incubator right now with Kuzma, Nance, Ingram and Randle in addition to a couple substandard vet versions in Deng and Brewer. Much better situation to build around that LeBron/Lonzo attack. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night.
I think Nance, other than Ball, is the guy most likely to be kept if we land Lebron. The one I worry about most is Ingram tbh.
I feel B.I and Lonzo are untouchable in Magic's eyes. But you really never know what's gonna happen or what deals will be on the table.
Best to wait it out imo and let Lebron come here on his own when he's a free agent next summer.
Well, they should be. But I just don't get the sense in having BI, if you have LBJ and Paul George on your team. For how many years is BI coming off the bench? 3? That will slow his development.
This is why I was not in favor of the 2 superstar plan. The only true superstars available are generally duplicative of the budding stars we supposedly have.
I'd prefer a plan that maybe involves one superstar and then complimentary players that would be considered sub-superstar.
If we truly want to move towards positionless basketball, then you don't bench B.I. with that roster. I'd have absolutely no worries about switching on defense with B.I., PG13 and Lebron all on the floor at the same time. "Smallball" lineup could be:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Lebron
Nance?
Not many teams can score on that lineup when they can switch everything, except maybe the few who have scoring centers like KAT/Embiid. We'll need a mobile big who can rebound and protect the rim against those teams.
Position-less basketball is kind of an overstated term IMO. Its more like position flexibility. I just can't see BI at the 2.
Brandon is a wing player to me and beat suited at 3. I don't want to be playing him out of position for much of his esrly years.
I didn't put each player's position because it'd be irrelevant with that lineup. If it makes people feel better, just say PG13 at the 2 instead then, with BI and Lebron at the 3 and 4 respectively. Positions are arbitrary in Luke's system.
The real challenge to playing positionless is on defense, but with the length and versatility of B.I., PG13 and Lebron it wouldn't be an issue at all. They can all step out and guard bigs if they have to, and they can stay with guards if needed. Or just do as I said and switch everything. It doesn't matter. I think it would work.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Funny thing is with Lonzo LA is poised to at or near the top of the league in pace and James would essentially be the half court offense. Too late for Cleveland to rebuild the roster to support such a dual approach because it requires versatile wings/forwards who can shoot. Those aren't easy to come by.
LA has several in the incubator right now with Kuzma, Nance, Ingram and Randle in addition to a couple substandard vet versions in Deng and Brewer. Much better situation to build around that LeBron/Lonzo attack.
Lebron's teams aren't that high in pace, and at 33-34 I don't see him wanting to change that. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense.
The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense.
You imagine a 34 year old with his mileage run up and down the court like a gazelle? He's understandably going to take plays and games off, and you're not going to beat GS at running and gunning.
The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense.
You imagine a 34 year old with his mileage run up and down the court like a gazelle? He's understandably going to take plays and games off, and you're not going to beat GS at running and gunning.
Actually, yes. Name a player his size who moves better than him. At 34 or 35, he simply becomes the best PF in the league. And again, find me someone that can beat him in a foot race at his position. And here's the thing about GSW. It's all good now, but things can change on a dime. An injury or a key player no longer wanting to play 3rd or 4th fiddle. This happens all the time.
Edit: Even if Lebron comes over and the Lakers don't win a title in his 3 or 4 seasons here, tack on 3 or 4 years of age on the our young core and they're still young. The experience of actually winning games on a regular basis rather than being in the lottery is huge. That can't be understated.
The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense.
You imagine a 34 year old with his mileage run up and down the court like a gazelle? He's understandably going to take plays and games off, and you're not going to beat GS at running and gunning.
Actually, yes. Name a player his size who moves better than him. At 34 or 35, he simply becomes the best PF in the league. And again, find me someone that can beat him in a foot race at his position. And here's the thing about GSW. It's all good now, but things can change on a dime. An injury or a key player no longer wanting to play 3rd or 4th fiddle. This happens all the time.
My dude, most of GS's stars are under 30. You think players won't want to defer, will get injured, yet you expect 34 yr old James to run like a gazelle throughout the season reliably waiting for passes from a 20 year old Lonzo? He's going to slow the pace down significantly.
The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense.
You imagine a 34 year old with his mileage run up and down the court like a gazelle? He's understandably going to take plays and games off, and you're not going to beat GS at running and gunning.
Actually, yes. Name a player his size who moves better than him. At 34 or 35, he simply becomes the best PF in the league. And again, find me someone that can beat him in a foot race at his position. And here's the thing about GSW. It's all good now, but things can change on a dime. An injury or a key player no longer wanting to play 3rd or 4th fiddle. This happens all the time.
My dude, most of GS's stars are under 30. You think players won't want to defer, will get injured, yet you expect 34 yr old James to run like a gazelle throughout the season reliably waiting for passes from a 20 year old Lonzo? He's going to slow the pace down significantly.
Okay, working within the parameters of the front office plan of signing 2 max contract players, who are you signing to fill those max slots next offseason that would have a more positive impact than Lebron taking one of those slots? There are no long term contracts in the NBA really, anymore. It's 3 or 4 years. Regardless of who is part of those 2 slots, it's going to be a tall order to defeat GSW. Part of signing 2 max FAs next offseason is win now, but part of it is grooming Ball and BI for the long term.
As far as thinking everyone at GSW is going to defer and take less money each year, history has shown this rarely happens over a decent amount of time. Kobe didn't want to play with Shaq eventually, for cripesakes. Kyrie wants out. It's way easier to leave to be an alpha on a new team when you already have a ring or two. Durant is essentially a UFA next offseason. Klay the season after that. We'll see if they can keep the band together for an extended period of time, especially in this era.
I can foresee the Lakers signing 2 max players who will help bridge the youth to a competitive high level. Out of lottery land, which is a place we're all tired of being in. In 4 seasons, those 2 guys get replaced with younger players and hopefully by then, Lonzo and BI are legit All-Star caliber players and a couple of our other young guys turn out well. I'm not even on the Lebron hype train and drooling over him coming to the Lakers, but if the FO signs him in the off-season, I would be fine with it because I can see the positives of it. Oh, and in 3 or 4 years Lebron will still be faster and a better player than Draymond Green, who effectively runs GSW's offense.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:59 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
Funny thing is with Lonzo LA is poised to at or near the top of the league in pace and James would essentially be the half court offense. Too late for Cleveland to rebuild the roster to support such a dual approach because it requires versatile wings/forwards who can shoot. Those aren't easy to come by.
LA has several in the incubator right now with Kuzma, Nance, Ingram and Randle in addition to a couple substandard vet versions in Deng and Brewer. Much better situation to build around that LeBron/Lonzo attack.
Lebron's teams aren't that high in pace, and at 33-34 I don't see him wanting to change that.
So worst case he's the trailer. Did Kareem hinder the fastbreak?
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