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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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The Warrior players don't have to take less to win, their FO is willing to pay for that. If you are expecting Durant and/or Klay to walk then you will be disappointed.
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| FanOfFour wrote: | | levon wrote: | | FanOfFour wrote: | | levon wrote: | | FanOfFour wrote: | | The reason why Cleveland is built for the half-court, is not because of the way Lebron plays the game. It's because before the Warriors, most teams which won titles played grind it out basketball in the post-season. Up-tempo teams weren't very successful this century. So the formula for success in the post-season was to play half-court offense most of the time. If somehow Lebron ends up on the Lakers, I can imagine him running up and down the court like a gazelle and pushing it up court like Lonzo would. Cleveland scored a ton of points in the Final with their personnel. Problem is that personnel isn't built to defend the best of up-tempo teams. That's a whole different discussion in regards to the young Lakers, but Lebron would definitely fit right into the offense. |
You imagine a 34 year old with his mileage run up and down the court like a gazelle? He's understandably going to take plays and games off, and you're not going to beat GS at running and gunning. |
Actually, yes. Name a player his size who moves better than him. At 34 or 35, he simply becomes the best PF in the league. And again, find me someone that can beat him in a foot race at his position. And here's the thing about GSW. It's all good now, but things can change on a dime. An injury or a key player no longer wanting to play 3rd or 4th fiddle. This happens all the time. |
My dude, most of GS's stars are under 30. You think players won't want to defer, will get injured, yet you expect 34 yr old James to run like a gazelle throughout the season reliably waiting for passes from a 20 year old Lonzo? He's going to slow the pace down significantly. |
Okay, working within the parameters of the front office plan of signing 2 max contract players, who are you signing to fill those max slots next offseason that would have a more positive impact than Lebron taking one of those slots? There are no long term contracts in the NBA really, anymore. It's 3 or 4 years. Regardless of who is part of those 2 slots, it's going to be a tall order to defeat GSW. Part of signing 2 max FAs next offseason is win now, but part of it is grooming Ball and BI for the long term.
As far as thinking everyone at GSW is going to defer and take less money each year, history has shown this rarely happens over a decent amount of time. Kobe didn't want to play with Shaq eventually, for cripesakes. Kyrie wants out. It's way easier to leave to be an alpha on a new team when you already have a ring or two. Durant is essentially a UFA next offseason. Klay the season after that. We'll see if they can keep the band together for an extended period of time, especially in this era.
I can foresee the Lakers signing 2 max players who will help bridge the youth to a competitive high level. Out of lottery land, which is a place we're all tired of being in. In 4 seasons, those 2 guys get replaced with younger players and hopefully by then, Lonzo and BI are legit All-Star caliber players and a couple of our other young guys turn out well. I'm not even on the Lebron hype train and drooling over him coming to the Lakers, but if the FO signs him in the off-season, I would be fine with it because I can see the positives of it. Oh, and in 3 or 4 years Lebron will still be faster and a better player than Draymond Green, who effectively runs GSW's offense. |
I'm going to put your overwhelming confidence in Lebron playing into his 50's at a high level aside and assume he never drops below 75% of his prime while playing, which is ridiculous to fathom.
I would be happy to get him in 2018. I'm just confused about what the FO is trying to do. Or maybe I'm not, maybe I understand it and just disagree with it. Maybe using the Lakers as his exit strategy will be great for the LA scene, I don't know. I just don't think he's the "bridge" player that will set us up to take down GS in three to four years. I think he's the "pay rent month-to-month, you need me more than I need you, I might get tired of playing hard because we're not winning with this roster so trade BI and Zo for an all star vet" kind of guy. I don't want the Lakers to not win a title and mortgage their future for Space Jam 2. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31910
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| fansincemagic wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Current feelings:
--We will not be, and should not be, in the potential trade market for acquiring Kyrie. We are in the LeBron business, and I think that's abundantly clear.
--We are not trading Lonzo or Ingram, for anyone. I mean, I could sit here and try to rationalize an Ingram-for-Anthony Davis trade or something, but let's be real...these 2 guys are untouchable for us, and Magic has said as much. He's not bluffing with that. He never said Dlo was untouchable and he got shipped out. Ingram and Lonzo are not getting shipped out.
--I do agree with other posters in previous pages of this thread who have said that it wouldn't be out of the logical realm of possibility that the Cavs could entertain the thought of building around Kyrie going forward and actually considering cutting the cord on LeBron now, especially if they are certain that he's leaving anyway next summer. Sure, they could try to make one more Finals run this season, but with an unhappy Kyrie-and-LeBron pairing, how is that going to work, especially if one or both of them don't have their hearts in it? And if they do choose to trade Kyrie and keep LeBron for a try at one more run at it, number one, they simply may not be as good, number two, LeBron's heart simply may not be in it at this point and they have to at least consider that, and number three, they have to know that they would be facing the very real possibility that they would then lose both Kyrie and LeBron by the end of next summer and then the franchise is horrifically damaged and starting at square one.
--So, in the event that the Cavs pull a 2004 Lakers and decide to choose Kyrie, where Kyrie agrees to the DPE "supermax" and they decide to make the stunning decision to get what they can for LeBron, and if LeBron wanted to try to come to the Lakers right now with his no-trade clause...I'm offering Deng and JC (both would have to go for salary reasons anyway) and then anything from the following list: Randle, Nance, Zubac, Bryant. They can also get the following draft picks: 2018 DEN 2nd, 2019 CHI 2nd, 2020 top-10 protected 1st.
--In a theoretical LeBron trade, I would not be willing to include Kuzma under any circumstances. LeBron would have the no-trade so he has some leverage, Kuzma looks like he could be the second-coming of Robert Horry or maybe better, and I am simply not willing to include him since I am in lust with his upside. So along with taking the Deng salary, the Cavs would get up to 5 players for LeBron and 3 draft picks, 1 of which was a first rounder. As for the Lakers, we get LeBron now while shedding the salary that we needed to shed in Deng/JC. The salary cap space would still be outstanding for next summer, and as for the draft picks we give up, we were going to give that up in a Deng salary dump anyway. We'd lose some other players, but as long as we still have Ball and Ingram and Kuzma and Hart and likely one of Zu/Bryant, we still have quite a young stable of talent to go along with LeBron and Lopez and KCP (and possibly Rose) this season, and then next year we likely get Paul George and whatever else we can with the cap space. |
This is a thoughtful post I could highlight but it's mint other than the Kuzma take. Yes he has high upside and chemistry with Ball but even for a year of LBJ I'd happily throw him in with Deng and a protected first, or Clarkson and Brewer. He could be the PF of the future and has a cheap deal, but getting James opens the door for Cousins (for Randle) types to demand deals to LA now to further cement contention...not just Showtime 2.0.
You may lust over Kuzma's upside, but whatever locks in Ball, Ingram, James, George and a 5th stud trumps even Kuzma. |
There's no need to trade Kuzma when LeBron would hold some leverage over the whole thing. He was there in Vegas, he saw firsthand what kind of potential Kuzma has as a 6'9 sweet-shooting two-way big. If the Cavs aren't OK with all the other players I mentioned and getting those picks, fine, we wait until next year. I'm just not giving up Kuzma for someone we can sign next year. Just not doing it. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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And if Rose really wants to play with Lebron, why not sign here for twice the money, if he signs with the Cavs, and Lebron bolts...well, just saying...
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“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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He's really coming, I'm bout to shed a tear, we bout to have a real shot at winning a ring. 🤗🤗🤗🤗
Kyrie's close friends are on Instagram talking about Lebron is lying , presumably about being blindsided... Bron's setting the media up for his departcha.. yes lord |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73061
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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The championship experience Lebron would bring to Lonzo/Ingram would be invaluable.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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kobe_luver
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | He's really coming, I'm bout to shed a tear, we bout to have a real shot at winning a ring. 🤗🤗🤗🤗
Kyrie's close friends are on Instagram talking about Lebron is lying , presumably about being blindsided... Bron's setting the media up for his departcha.. yes lord |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17103
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Warrior players don't have to take less to win, their FO is willing to pay for that. If you are expecting Durant and/or Klay to walk then you will be disappointed. |
I don't expect them to pay forever. The days of sports ownership as a rich man's hobby died in the mid-80s. Dr. Buss ran a tight fiscal operation where possible. Ditto Spurs, Celts, Bulls, Pistons and pretty much every team that has had long-term success. The open checkbook owners (Blazers in the 90s, early Cuban, etc.) learned a very expensive lesson.
My guess is Dubs ownership will do a Jerry Krause - spend to fill the new building, make tickets owners pay 2-3 seasons in advance or buy licenses, then downsize the payroll in 2019-20 to Steph, KD and "the Merry Men of Minimum." That's not an indictment - just business. They want ROI now, not just when they sell.
Condemn Donald Sterling, but the Clippers were one of the more consistently profitable franchises throughout his tenure.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'll say it again, if you want LeBron to be traded here be prepared for ANYONE not named Lonzo Ball to be available. This is Gilbert we're talking about here. Comic Sans would rather have Lebron just sit out the season and not show up than to trade him to the lakers while being fleeced in the process.
You're fooling yourself if you think Kuzma or anyone else is safe. Ingram could be but I doubt that too in the case of Lebron.
And this is coming from someone who wants us to keep all of our young players. I think Julius is about to have a breakout year. But we have to be realistic with what Magic would do to get Lebron and what cle would be willing to accept considering their grudge against us |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 10602
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | He's really coming, I'm bout to shed a tear, we bout to have a real shot at winning a ring. 🤗🤗🤗🤗
Kyrie's close friends are on Instagram talking about Lebron is lying , presumably about being blindsided... Bron's setting the media up for his departcha.. yes lord |
Here's how I see it, piecing it together:
1) Kyrie asks Lebron to commit to the Cavs after the Finals
2) Lebron says it depends on the moves they make to compete with the Warriors (whether or not that's true)
3) Kyrie and Lebron wait on offseason moves (Butler, George)
4) Kyrie senses the team isn't improving and Lebron isn't committing (no doubt there's some rumblings of Lebron trying to trade Ky too here) and decides to take fate into his own hands instead of being handcuffed to an aging, cap hell Cavs. Griffin, Billups walk away. Lebron to LA is as loud as can be.
5) Lebron finds out either through the FO or Kyrie about the trade request. Doesn't like the narrative that's going to be painted here. Feels betrayed and upset, like he's lost control over the situation before bailing and now has to live in it again for a year. Deliberates whether or not to leak, finally deciding to do it because he controls the narrative.
6) While Kyrie is away on an Asia trip, Lebron leaks his version through his personal lackey Windhorst (who reported the story), framing it like Kyrie is discontent with winning and doesn't want to play with the best player in the world and sacrifice stats.
7) Kyrie's camp then responds by running the real, pragmatic story through the media of the Cavs being trash after Lebron's inevitable departure, and the hypocrisy around the situation with this article:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20125888/kyrie-irving-trade-request-shows-learned-lebron
Remember also that there were earlier reports a month ago that Kyrie could ask to be traded if Lebron leaves. This wasn't really news. All we found out this weekend is that Lebron is leaving but is upset that someone beat him to the punch. |
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The_Dynasty24
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 2840
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| If Lebron wins one in LA, is he the goat? I've never been a fan might that might do it for him. |
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Chad09
Star Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 6738
Location: Studio City
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | He's really coming, I'm bout to shed a tear, we bout to have a real shot at winning a ring. 🤗🤗🤗🤗
Kyrie's close friends are on Instagram talking about Lebron is lying , presumably about being blindsided... Bron's setting the media up for his departcha.. yes lord |
I can't wait myself, and don't forget PG13 is coming also. 😼 |
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DangeRuss
Star Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1418
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyrie is so underrated, I can see why he wants to leave Cleveland by the way some people refer to him lol. |
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | I'll say it again, if you want LeBron to be traded here be prepared for ANYONE not named Lonzo Ball to be available. This is Gilbert we're talking about here. Comic Sans would rather have Lebron just sit out the season and not show up than to trade him to the lakers while being fleeced in the process.
You're fooling yourself if you think Kuzma or anyone else is safe. Ingram could be but I doubt that too in the case of Lebron.
And this is coming from someone who wants us to keep all of our young players. I think Julius is about to have a breakout year. But we have to be realistic with what Magic would do to get Lebron and what cle would be willing to accept considering their grudge against us |
Why? Magic said just last week (paraphrasing) that they're trying to build the team in a way that allows them to have long term, sustainable success. Gutting the team just to get LeBron one year early doesn't fit with that vision. And if LeBron truly wants to come here (which most of us believe), he would undoubtedly exercise his no trade clause to keep that from happening. And with the KCP signing it'll be that much easier for them to backchannel LeBron and vice versa through Rich Paul.
LeBron wouldn't wanna come and play a meaningless season with a depleted roster, even if the FO tried to make it happen, but I don't see any rhyme or reason at all to think the FO would attempt to do that anyway. They would have nothing to gain by doing so. If they were that shortsighted they would've been willing to offer up the second pick or Ingram (or both) to land George.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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misterrunon
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1904
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Woj is not friendly with Lebron or his agent (Rich Paul), so I'll take this with a grain of salt.
Magic is also buddies with Pat Riley, who has taken subtle jabs at Lebron ever since he left for Cleveland (basically implying that Lebron demanded to much from the organization, wanting to call the shots.. kinda like how he does it in Cleveland).
I hope our FO is sure it can handle Lebron if we sign him... Rob is pretty smart, so I think we'll be okay even if we do get Lebron. Still don't want him either way though, don't want him and his clique around our franchise. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21455
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's rename this thread to the most gullible Lakers fans of all time thread. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| misterrunon wrote: | Woj is not friendly with Lebron or his agent (Rich Paul), so I'll take this with a grain of salt.
Magic is also buddies with Pat Riley, who has taken subtle jabs at Lebron ever since he left for Cleveland (basically implying that Lebron demanded to much from the organization, wanting to call the shots.. kinda like how he does it in Cleveland).
I hope our FO is sure it can handle Lebron if we sign him... Rob is pretty smart, so I think we'll be okay even if we do get Lebron. Still don't want him either way though, don't want him and his clique around our franchise. |
Thanks for your analysis, Phil.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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lakersfan32
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 3679
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Warrior players don't have to take less to win, their FO is willing to pay for that. If you are expecting Durant and/or Klay to walk then you will be disappointed. |
I don't expect them to pay forever. The days of sports ownership as a rich man's hobby died in the mid-80s. Dr. Buss ran a tight fiscal operation where possible. Ditto Spurs, Celts, Bulls, Pistons and pretty much every team that has had long-term success. The open checkbook owners (Blazers in the 90s, early Cuban, etc.) learned a very expensive lesson.
My guess is Dubs ownership will do a Jerry Krause - spend to fill the new building, make tickets owners pay 2-3 seasons in advance or buy licenses, then downsize the payroll in 2019-20 to Steph, KD and "the Merry Men of Minimum." That's not an indictment - just business. They want ROI now, not just when they sell.
Condemn Donald Sterling, but the Clippers were one of the more consistently profitable franchises throughout his tenure. |
They already started.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/warriors-making-fans-buy-membership-before-buying-season-tickets-at-new-arena/ |
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Kirby Brian
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7920
Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | | Kyrie is so underrated, I can see why he wants to leave Cleveland by the way some people refer to him lol. |
"LOL he doesn't play defense..he only showed up for one game in the finals and injured prone! Kuzma >> Kyrie" - LG |
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Warriors are not gonna break it up as long as they are winning. NBA is growing massively worldwide and Warriors are easily attracting majority of the new fans due to their style and star power. That's how you build a brand and expand your merchandising revenue. Rockets were sold for 85 M in 90s and now valued at 1.5 Bn. Ballmer didn't fork out 2 billion hoping he could make that back from profits every year. There's a certain passion involved and imagine if he had a team like GSW? Why would you ruin a dynasty when you can create history and increase your brand value as well.
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The Warrior players don't have to take less to win, their FO is willing to pay for that. If you are expecting Durant and/or Klay to walk then you will be disappointed. |
Do me a favor, go look up repeater tax, and then you will see why the warriors can't afford them for a long time |
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Mr. Howard
Sixth Man
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Kyrie and LbJ sticking it to Gilbert - mad their boss griffin wasn't retained |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| I never understood the idea of giving up so much for a soon to be free agent. LeBron should net a little more than what PG netted. |
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32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73061
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Let's rename this thread to the most gullible Lakers fans of all time thread. |
Why?
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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