Who do you take if Jackson goes #1?
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If Jackson Goes #1, who do you take?
Fultz
62%
 62%  [ 93 ]
Ball
36%
 36%  [ 54 ]
Other
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 149

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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Who do you take if Jackson goes #1?

splashmtn wrote:
LakerBaker wrote:
Assuming the Lakers do not trade the #2 pick... I think most would take Fultz, but wanted to see how many would still take Ball or someone else.
most would not take fultz. the reason this poll shows fultz is because this is like poll #20 trying to get a fultz vote. so the fultz lovers will come out and support that idea.

now in the event that zo is not there for us at #2. i'm all in on futlz first , jackson 2nd. close 2nd at that.No. i'm not thinking about fox at all.


All the other polls don't even have Fultz as an option, so how are they trying to get a Fultz vote?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
I'm still team Lonzo. I believe in his ability to greatly improve a team. I have some doubts with Fultz. I think he'd be great on Boston. He can just get buckets there. There would be more to do here.


Have to disagree. Have you seen how well rounded his game is?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Individual Stats say pick Fultz because he will put up great scoring numbers.

However...

All the Advanced Analytics numbers are saying pick Ball because he will have the most impact on any team.

If I believe in the Lakers young core of Russell, Ingram, Randle, Zubac and all these guys, I pick the player that will help them achieve that.

So I vote...

Ball.


UCLA was a horrid 15-17 last season, but when Ball arrived he turned that whole basketball team around and they went 31-5, that's a +16 wins and a Tournament birth!

Washington had a subpar 19-15 last season, but when Fultz got there he put up great individual numbers, but his team got even worst and went 9-22, that's a -10 wins, they lost more games than won last season.

Individual stats are not the end all be all. There's a reason why the NBA is changing the way they look at players, these advanced analytics show the real impact and value of a player that no one else can see out of a box score.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:06 am    Post subject:

Ball is better than Fultz and will have more of an imact on winning games down the road. I have a bad feeling Fultz might end up like Tyreke Evans.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:08 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Individual Stats say pick Fultz because he will put up great scoring numbers.

However...

All the Advanced Analytics numbers are saying pick Ball because he will have the most impact on any team.

If I believe in the Lakers young core of Russell, Ingram, Randle, Zubac and all these guys, I pick the player that will help them achieve that.

So I vote...

Ball.


Exactly right. Fultz will probably have better on papers stats but I want the guy that will actually affect games leading to W's. Fultz might be somewhere between Tyreke Evans and Dame Lillard.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject:

Gimmie that Fultz boy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Individual Stats say pick Fultz because he will put up great scoring numbers.

However...

All the Advanced Analytics numbers are saying pick Ball because he will have the most impact on any team.

If I believe in the Lakers young core of Russell, Ingram, Randle, Zubac and all these guys, I pick the player that will help them achieve that.

So I vote...

Ball.


UCLA was a horrid 15-17 last season, but when Ball arrived he turned that whole basketball team around and they went 31-5, that's a +16 wins and a Tournament birth!

Washington had a subpar 19-15 last season, but when Fultz got there he put up great individual numbers, but his team got even worst and went 9-22, that's a -10 wins, they lost more games than won last season.

Individual stats are not the end all be all. There's a reason why the NBA is changing the way they look at players, these advanced analytics show the real impact and value of a player that no one else can see out of a box score.


That's an overly simple way to look at it. Washington lost their best three players and replaced them with one. UCLA gained their best two players (including Ball) plus another NBA prospect and carried over their previous best players. It's fine that you like Ball better, but there are much better arguments to make than measuring who walked into the better situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Individual Stats say pick Fultz because he will put up great scoring numbers.

However...

All the Advanced Analytics numbers are saying pick Ball because he will have the most impact on any team.

If I believe in the Lakers young core of Russell, Ingram, Randle, Zubac and all these guys, I pick the player that will help them achieve that.

So I vote...

Ball.


UCLA was a horrid 15-17 last season, but when Ball arrived he turned that whole basketball team around and they went 31-5, that's a +16 wins and a Tournament birth!

Washington had a subpar 19-15 last season, but when Fultz got there he put up great individual numbers, but his team got even worst and went 9-22, that's a -10 wins, they lost more games than won last season.

Individual stats are not the end all be all. There's a reason why the NBA is changing the way they look at players, these advanced analytics show the real impact and value of a player that no one else can see out of a box score.
Valid.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

Take the guy you want. I believe based upon all the Lakers are doing with dinners, meeting the family, watching him go through his routine...etc etc etc...that's Ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
Vishnu wrote:
I'm still team Lonzo. I believe in his ability to greatly improve a team. I have some doubts with Fultz. I think he'd be great on Boston. He can just get buckets there. There would be more to do here.


Have to disagree. Have you seen how well rounded his game is?


I'm not saying all he can do is get buckets. I'm saying Boston is a better team so all he would have to do there is get buckets. Other guys can take care of the rest. In LA, he would have to elevate the team more.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

The unconditional love for Ball is pretty ridiculous within Lakers Nation. I consider LG the smartest basketball forum in the NBA. My only knock is this strange love we have for hometown kids or people who have played a year or more of college ball in LA. For example:

Kevin Love - He only played a year of UCLA. He was poisonous in Minny. He padded his stats on a horrible team. Got upset when a teammate got the Max. Openly wanted out for a couple of years. Horrendous defender. Initially couldn't "fit in" playing with Lebron. Tweener.
Lakers fans: "Bring KLove, the Portland native, back home to LA!"

Demar DeRozan - ISO Player. No 3 point range. Max Money but doesn't quite move the needle.
Lakers fans - "Bring home DD!"

I can understand the argument why Ball is the clear choice over Jackson (even though I feel Jackson can be really good). But to say at this moment that Ball is the clear choice over Fultz is asinine.

For the sake of Lakers Nation, I hope we take Ball. The media surrounding him will be good for the Lakers brand. Fans will be happy and we won't have to hear a decade of Ball to LA rumors. And I hope he is the best pick in the draft and I hope he's a once in a generation player who makes this team immediately better. As of now, I don't know how good he will be, but I hope everyone is right about this guy and not just buying into the hype. But as for me personally, if Fultz is there, I'll take him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Individual Stats say pick Fultz because he will put up great scoring numbers.

However...

All the Advanced Analytics numbers are saying pick Ball because he will have the most impact on any team.

If I believe in the Lakers young core of Russell, Ingram, Randle, Zubac and all these guys, I pick the player that will help them achieve that.

So I vote...

Ball.


UCLA was a horrid 15-17 last season, but when Ball arrived he turned that whole basketball team around and they went 31-5, that's a +16 wins and a Tournament birth!

Washington had a subpar 19-15 last season, but when Fultz got there he put up great individual numbers, but his team got even worst and went 9-22, that's a -10 wins, they lost more games than won last season.

Individual stats are not the end all be all. There's a reason why the NBA is changing the way they look at players, these advanced analytics show the real impact and value of a player that no one else can see out of a box score.


That's an overly simple way to look at it. Washington lost their best three players and replaced them with one. UCLA gained their best two players (including Ball) plus another NBA prospect and carried over their previous best players. It's fine that you like Ball better, but there are much better arguments to make than measuring who walked into the better situation.


one of the few objective statements these days
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject:

If Boston does take Fultz, we might go Jackson instead of Ball. I think it really depends on what roles Magic and Luke envision for Russell and Ingram.

Russell
Jackson
Ingram
Randle
Mozgov/Zubac

Fultz or Ball
Russell
Ingram
Randle
Mozgov/Zubac

In the first scenario if we Jackson, Jackson- Ingram one may play defense at SG and offense at SF and vice versa.

Then in 2018-19 integrate PG13 into that role with either Ingram or Jackson as the 6th man.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject:

Ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

fultz.
then when ball gets drafted and doesn't want to sign, we flip fultz for ball+
assets.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject:

Ball.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
That's an overly simple way to look at it. Washington lost their best three players and replaced them with one. UCLA gained their best two players (including Ball) plus another NBA prospect and carried over their previous best players. It's fine that you like Ball better, but there are much better arguments to make than measuring who walked into the better situation.


Here's another way of looking at it too: Washington did lose three of their "best" players, but just because they were Washington's "best" doesn't mean they're actually "great" players. Only Chriss was drafted inside the lottery and he wasn't even their best player in Washington. The other two was a late pick and the other undrafted.

In terms of NBA potential, Washington had a better record last season and basically lost one projected NBA starter and two projected NBA role players at best, while gaining an NBA projected superstar in Fultz and having a worst season with him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
That's an overly simple way to look at it. Washington lost their best three players and replaced them with one. UCLA gained their best two players (including Ball) plus another NBA prospect and carried over their previous best players. It's fine that you like Ball better, but there are much better arguments to make than measuring who walked into the better situation.


Here's another way of looking at it too: Washington did lose three of their "best" players, but just because they were Washington's "best" doesn't mean they're actually "great" players. Only Chriss was drafted inside the lottery and he wasn't even their best player in Washington. The other two was a late pick and the other undrafted.

In terms of NBA potential, Washington had a better record last season and basically lost one projected NBA starter and two projected NBA role players at best, while gaining an NBA projected superstar in Fultz and having a worst season with him.

So when Fultz goes to the Conference Finals with Boston and Ball leads us to another lottery season next season, where is your "BALL IS A WINNER" argument going to go?

Teammates matter.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject:

It's quite close, but Fultz.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
That's an overly simple way to look at it. Washington lost their best three players and replaced them with one. UCLA gained their best two players (including Ball) plus another NBA prospect and carried over their previous best players. It's fine that you like Ball better, but there are much better arguments to make than measuring who walked into the better situation.


Here's another way of looking at it too: Washington did lose three of their "best" players, but just because they were Washington's "best" doesn't mean they're actually "great" players. Only Chriss was drafted inside the lottery and he wasn't even their best player in Washington. The other two was a late pick and the other undrafted.

In terms of NBA potential, Washington had a better record last season and basically lost one projected NBA starter and two projected NBA role players at best, while gaining an NBA projected superstar in Fultz and having a worst season with him.

So when Fultz goes to the Conference Finals with Boston and Ball leads us to another lottery season next season, where is your "BALL IS A WINNER" argument going to go?

Teammates matter.


Hey watch me do the same thing by posing the same hypothetical question back to you!

So when Ball goes to the Conference Finals with LA and Fultz leads Boston to another ECF exit next season season, where is your "FULTZ HAD TEAMMATES" argument going to go?

Winning matters.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject:

Fultz is the better player, but is he better for us?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

Dajuan Wagner. Remember him. That's who Fultz reminds me of. Gotta go with Ball
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

TomSeaver wrote:
Dajuan Wagner. Remember him. That's who Fultz reminds me of. Gotta go with Ball


He had career ending health problems. still he was 6th pick
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
TomSeaver wrote:
Dajuan Wagner. Remember him. That's who Fultz reminds me of. Gotta go with Ball


He had career ending health problems. still he was 6th pick


He was a pure chucker. I don't think the Fultz comparison is fair there.
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