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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Quote: | Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.
That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.
In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over. |
LINK |
OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George.
They'll likely try to be players in free agency next summer when Melo is off the books, but if they strike out, it wouldn't shock me if they traded Westbrook. He'll be 31 at that point, and his game projects to age horribly. They'd probably be better served to build around a couple high draft picks and Adams. |
That's the curse of the super max. Players who get it usually be closer to 30 (i.e 27-29) and the backend of those deals are disgusting. WB will be making 45-46m when he's 33.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: |
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When your team isn't a contender, getting out of the repeater tax becomes a priority IMO.
It takes 2 consecutive season under the luxury tax. So it's not something you can just decide off the cuff.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | I think it's Houston or bust for Melo. He was holding out for that with NY and only relented on OKC when that fell through. Now he's watching CP3 live his dream scenario. OKC is probably looking at a choice of bringing Melo back, an expensive buyout or Ryan Anderson. The buyout and stretch seems most likely. But does George love Westbrook THAT much to stay.... |
How is Houston Melo's "dream scenario"? It didn't work out in NYK between he and MDA. Why will it now after his game has gotten worse? |
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Icaruz
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: |
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[quote="AY2043"] | 32 wrote: | | Quote: | Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.
That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.
In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over. |
LINK |
That's why I think Sam Presti accomplished his goal despite the season that the Thunder had. The goal wasn't really to build a winning team, the goal from the beginning was play on Westbrook ego and get him to sign the extension. This is the main reason for PG and Melo trades. Westbrook + Oladipo was an 8th seat team and given that team, chances are Westbrook leave and OKC go back to irrelevancy (Presti gets fired). Presti pretty much con Westbrook into resigning without witnessing how the team would have gel together....and on Durant's Bday for that matter....all playing to the egotistical nature of Westbrook. And now OKC will likely be 8th seat-ish and Presti gets to keep his job for at least few years. It will be Westbrook and spare parts from now on. Carmelo probably will force his way to a buy out judging from his press conference. PG will be gone because OKC cannot handle paying tax and not be contender. But IMO it was the plan from the very beginning anyways, they just didn't tell Westbrook that |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George. |
so your predicting OKC will not offer PG-13 a max contract? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: |
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PG13 should study the Blake Griffin-Clips situation.
They promised to retire his jersey.
Said he was a Clipper forever.
Then he boarded a flight to Detroit.
Once PG13 signs, he becomes their best trade asset.
Who knows if instead of home in LA, he's shipped to some city he hates.
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NBALakerLegends
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | PG13 should study the Blake Griffin-Clips situation.
They promised to retire his jersey.
Said he was a Clipper forever.
Then he boarded a flight to Detroit.
Once PG13 signs, he becomes their best trade asset.
Who knows if instead of home in LA, he's shipped to some city he hates. |
This is definitely food for thought for PG's camp. OKC shipped off Harden, Ibaka, Kanter and Dipo. Who's to say that PG is safe there for more than a year? |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: |
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PG would want a no trade clause if he was to sign with the Thunder or the Lakers. Superstars can get whatever they want in this league. If he signed with Lakers and became mediocre, Lakers would be stuck with him for a long time. It has happened before. Look at Melo as a prime example, he was "average" for the three years of his contract and complete trash the last two.
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Last edited by lakersfever714 on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | PG would want a no trade clause if he was to sign with the Thunder or the Lakers. Superstars can get whatever they want in this league. If he signed with Lakers and became mediocre, Lakers would be stuck with him for a long time. |
He can't get a no trade clause with either team.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Imagine approaching the ownership group and asking them to pour in that kind of astounding money for a team that lost in the first round. I don't see it.
And Jerami Grant is a UFA IIRC. He's going to be too costly to keep.
If I'm OKC, I'm looking to go under the luxury tax this year and start getting out of the repeater tax. Takes 2 seasons to do that. |
If PG comes to the Lakers and they stretch Melo, they can get under the tax line even if they sign Grant for a slightly above MLE number (which is what it will take most likely, as there will be some contenders willing to pay him MLE $). |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Imagine approaching the ownership group and asking them to pour in that kind of astounding money for a team that lost in the first round. I don't see it.
And Jerami Grant is a UFA IIRC. He's going to be too costly to keep.
If I'm OKC, I'm looking to go under the luxury tax this year and start getting out of the repeater tax. Takes 2 seasons to do that. |
If PG comes to the Lakers and they stretch Melo, they can get under the tax line even if they sign Grant for a slightly above MLE number (which is what it will take most likely, as there will be some contenders willing to pay him MLE $). |
Yeah. Getting under the luxury tax would = a ring to OKC in year 1; out of repeater tax year 2 = 2nd ring; out of WB's deal after making $$$ off him those 2 years = 3 peat.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | Thunder got WB signed long term as BO draw. So maybe losing PG13 would be a better move financially. They are not challenging in the West either way with GSW and Rockets so strong. |
Winner winner chicken dinner.
I think this was their plan all along. It was all about signing RW.
Now they'll go back to being profitable and have Russ as the face of the franchise/martyr to keep the fans coming to games. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Imagine approaching the ownership group and asking them to pour in that kind of astounding money for a team that lost in the first round. I don't see it.
And Jerami Grant is a UFA IIRC. He's going to be too costly to keep.
If I'm OKC, I'm looking to go under the luxury tax this year and start getting out of the repeater tax. Takes 2 seasons to do that. |
If PG comes to the Lakers and they stretch Melo, they can get under the tax line even if they sign Grant for a slightly above MLE number (which is what it will take most likely, as there will be some contenders willing to pay him MLE $). |
Yeah. Getting under the luxury tax would = a ring to OKC in year 1; out of repeater tax year 2 = 2nd ring; out of WB's deal after making $$$ off him those 2 years = 3 peat. |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | PG would want a no trade clause if he was to sign with the Thunder or the Lakers. Superstars can get whatever they want in this league. If he signed with Lakers and became mediocre, Lakers would be stuck with him for a long time. |
He can't get a no trade clause with either team. |
Oh nvm then. NTC has some strict requirements. 
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: |
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OKC can say they went "all in" this year with PG13/Melo, and it didn't work.
Then they'll do the necessary cost cutting moves, enjoying that big fat paycheck from revenue sharing and being out of the luxury tax while fans still come to see WB.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Icaruz wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Quote: | Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.
That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.
In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over. |
LINK |
That's why I think Sam Presti accomplished his goal despite the season that the Thunder had. The goal wasn't really to build a winning team, the goal from the beginning was play on Westbrook ego and get him to sign the extension. This is the main reason for PG and Melo trades. Westbrook + Oladipo was an 8th seat team and given that team, chances are Westbrook leave and OKC go back to irrelevancy (Presti gets fired). Presti pretty much con Westbrook into resigning without witnessing how the team would have gel together....and on Durant's Bday for that matter....all playing to the egotistical nature of Westbrook. And now OKC will likely be 8th seat-ish and Presti gets to keep his job for at least few years. It will be Westbrook and spare parts from now on. Carmelo probably will force his way to a buy out judging from his press conference. PG will be gone because OKC cannot handle paying tax and not be contender. But IMO it was the plan from the very beginning anyways, they just didn't tell Westbrook that |
You hit the nail on the head. Please post more often. 
Last edited by babyskyhook on Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AY2043
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George. |
so your predicting OKC will not offer PG-13 a max contract? |
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily predict that they won't offer it to him -- they need to maintain the optics that they're doing everything they can to win now.
But it wouldn't shock me if we saw some well placed leaks designed to dissuade George from signing there.
They can deny the leaks to the fans, they can't deny not offering George a max contract. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:13 am Post subject: |
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It's all there.
PG13 will quickly be the scapegoat for OKC. You'll hear "2-16" from that fanbase.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | OKC can say they went "all in" this year with PG13/Melo, and it didn't work.
Then they'll do the necessary cost cutting moves, enjoying that big fat paycheck from revenue sharing and being out of the luxury tax while fans still come to see WB. |
Countdown to VLF coming in to tell us how OKC has a new ownership group that is just dying to pay $250m in salaries and taxes for this team that can't get out of the first round.
PS- the real question for you, yin, is how does IT fit into this situation ?
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BigBallerBrand
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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there is absolutely no scenario where PG does not come to LA. this is a done deal. PG knows if he doesn't come this year, he will never have the chance to come to LA ever again. makes no sense to stay in OKC just to exit in the 1st round.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | OKC can say they went "all in" this year with PG13/Melo, and it didn't work.
Then they'll do the necessary cost cutting moves, enjoying that big fat paycheck from revenue sharing and being out of the luxury tax while fans still come to see WB. |
Countdown to VLF coming in to tell us how OKC has a new ownership group that is just dying to pay $250m in salaries and taxes for this team that can't get out of the first round.
PS- the real question for you, yin, is how does IT fit into this situation ?
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You #Boogie.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George. |
so your predicting OKC will not offer PG-13 a max contract? |
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily predict that they won't offer it to him -- they need to maintain the optics that they're doing everything they can to win now.
But it wouldn't shock me if we saw some well placed leaks designed to dissuade George from signing there.
They can deny the leaks to the fans, they can't deny not offering George a max contract. |
It's even easier than that.
They knew he wanted to go to LA when they traded for him. They know he's coming to the Lakers this summer. They don't have to leak anything to dissuade him from staying in OKC.
They'll make him an offer so they can say they've done it, but they'll know ahead of time that it won't matter. It will just be window dressing for the fans and for Russ. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | OKC can say they went "all in" this year with PG13/Melo, and it didn't work.
Then they'll do the necessary cost cutting moves, enjoying that big fat paycheck from revenue sharing and being out of the luxury tax while fans still come to see WB. |
Countdown to VLF coming in to tell us how OKC has a new ownership group that is just dying to pay $250m in salaries and taxes for this team that can't get out of the first round.
PS- the real question for you, yin, is how does IT fit into this situation ?
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You #Boogie. |
All Injury Team baby!!! |
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cyborgspider
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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What I don't get is OKC's reporters (ESPN Royce Young included) being so optimistic or hung up about his decision.
They parse this words at near-Inspector-Gadget levels. They consider the team they cover one of the NBA's elite and don't understand why he'd want to leave. Maybe they're catering to their reader-base, but it's jarring how serious they're taking this. The rest of the NBA fanverse and media knew this was a one-year rental, I guess Kevin's departure really left a mark on them. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| cyborgspider wrote: | What I don't get is OKC's reporters (ESPN Royce Young included) being so optimistic or hung up about his decision.
They parse this words at near-Inspector-Gadget levels. They consider the team they cover one of the NBA's elite and don't understand why he'd want to leave. Maybe they're catering to their reader-base, but it's jarring how serious they're taking this. The rest of the NBA fanverse and media knew this was a one-year rental, I guess Kevin's departure really left a mark on them. |
I mean if PG13 leaves and OKC is at best, a 8-10th seed, maybe it's job security and a hope that PG13 #stays and keeps them relevant?
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