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LongBeachPoly
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 Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
So Detroit traded Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, lottery pick, n 2nd pick —> Blake Griffin —-> Carmelo Anthony
Horrible |
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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
So Detroit traded Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, lottery pick, n 2nd pick —> Blake Griffin —-> Carmelo Anthony
Horrible |
Well, one character trait in life that is vastly important is the ability to take objective self inventory.
Detroit needs to realize that the Griffin trade was a debacle and do their best to fix it. How? Unloading Griffin for an expiring.
OKC does it because he’s from OKC, gives the team star power/curb appeal, and it helps soothethe aches of losing both Durant and George.
The only real question is rather or not OKC would rather have the capspace next offseason. Griffin has a horrible contract. PR, however, is a real thing though, and Griffin going home would be all the buzz in those parts.
It may be a good move for both sides.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| PG13 is a really good player. Every team in the NBA could use his talents. With that said, if he doesn't come, then that's his loss. There's flashes of brilliance in all the young players and no PG will give the young guys a chance to prove themselves in this league. Like Ireland always says, we just need one of these guys to pop and become a star. Would I love PG on this team, yes. Will my life be ruined if he doesn't come... None what so ever. |
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Vanquish
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | As long as Lebron comes, I'm ok with the off-season. Without 2 max, we get to keep Randle without the headache of trying to trade Deng.
Next Season, Deng is an expiring, so he would be a realistic trade possibility. There's still potentially Butler and - maybe - Kawhi as FAs.
Getting 2 Max FAs in 2018 is not costless. Its either going to cost us Randle or mutiple draft picks/young talent (to move deng). 2019 won't drain our resources that much.
The only possible reason I can see for PG changing his mind and wanting to remain in OKC, is because of Kawhi. There's a real possibility he might get Blake Griffon-ed. He signs and a few months later at the deadline we - stab him in the back - and use him in a package for Kawhi.He's not allowed to negotiate for a no-trade clause with us and I think that's his fear. Its a major risk for him to sign with us, knowing we have possibly a greater preference for Kawhi. Magic during the meeting has to convince PG, this is not going to happen.
Also, if I were his agent I would honestly push him to stay in OKC, first he gets more money and years so bigger commission for me and second, Randle gets to stay in LA, who can give the best contract - so more commission for me as well. PG coming to LA might not be good for Randle, and his agent wants the max salary for BOTH pg and randle. |
No hyperbole, this is literally one of the most ridiculous takes I've come across in any of these LeBron/Kawhi/PG discussions.
First, the talk of him staying in OKC has been intensifying for months now. The Kawhi to LA talk has only surfaced recently (not fans speculating about it, but an actual report). The reports of OKC feeling optimistic that PG might stay did not come out of the blue. OKC has been pushing this narrative especially hard ever since they got their butts kicked by Utah.
Secondly, it's just the absolute pinnacle absurdity to think that the Lakers would be sleazy enough to deceive PG into signing with them, just so they could trade him for Kawhi. That would be one of the dirtiest tricks we’ve ever seen in sports and their image would be totally eviscerated. That would be the kind of PR stink that they would never able to get rid as long as Magic and Rob are in the FO. Players would never want to come play for them after that. Ever.
Thirdly, if getting ”Blake Griffin’d” is something PG is afraid of, then the best thing for him to do is ditch OKC as quickly as possible because they're the real threat for doing that. Their cap is shot. They can max him and end up trading him somewhere else to create cap room, especially if they were to underperform again.
And finally, all of the discussion about Kawhi potentially coming has always centered around a trio of he, LeBron and PG, not Kawhi instead of PG. The Spurs are probably not going to trade Kawhi to the Lakers anyways. I would say that we can be 99.9% certain of that, but even 99.9% sounds too optimistic. Thus, if Kawhi is ever going to become a Laker it would have to be next year as a free agent, which is just about impossible financially unless LeBron and PG take pay cuts. There's no reason to believe that there's any kind of relationship between the ’Kawhi to LA’ talk and these reports about PG staying in OKC. None. The timeline doesn't add up and the logic of it is just a complete failure. |
I do these hypotheticals for fun. For me its trying to figure out a reason why PG might change his mind, if the media reports are indeed true. It's a good way to pass the time I think, until Jul 1st comes around and we can all discuss actual news, instead of rumours from the media. If my suggestions are ridiculous, so be it because I do it all in essentially good fun anyways 
I do however think there is nonetheless still some room to ponder from the situation I outlines, especially the following:
As regards point 2, with regards to a sign and quick trade being one of the absolute dirtiest tricks in sports and the lakers never recovering from it, haven't the clippers already done it to blake griffon and I am curious as to whether there actually has been much fall out to the clipper organisation. I don't follow that much clipper news so I don't know, but - from what I do read - I haven't come across much reports of there being really much blowback to the clipper organization itself. Last I read, Kawhi still names the clippers as his second preferred destination after the lakers. From what I can tell, the clippers pretty much got away with the deed after telling Blake he's going to be the cornerstone of the franchise early last off-season.
As regards point 4, have there been any reports of the lakers FO themselves having any intention of getting a trio? I know the media and LG has discussed this at length, but I don't recall any report attributing it to the FO per se. To get 3 max players is essentially the entire salary cap to those specific players. I can easily see the lakers wanting just 2 superstars and cost controlled rookie contracts. The NBA is a business after all. How much would the luxury tax be even with 3 max players and a band of merry minimums.
I do think Kawhi can force a trade to the lakers if he wants to, since the clippers have cap space next year. All he has to say to the spurs and any other team that wishes to acquire him this year is that if I am not traded to the lakers, I'm going to - my second choice - the clippers next season. Spurs or - if he is traded - the team he ends up with this year, will then end up with nothing for an all nba talent. Thus, I think he's in the driving seat, nothing much the Spurs can actually do, so their preference is essentially irrelevant. They may talk a mean game, but it then becomes a high stakes game of chicken, are the spurs really willing to risk getting zero compensation to make a point. Whether Kawhi actually will do this, I don't know. I just think its possible. |
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Kookie Monster
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Kookie Monster wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Kookie Monster wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I can see why PG13 doesn't want to come. I don't think he is being respected or appreciated by us or the front office. He is not a top 5 player on this league but he is one of the best two-way players. He has made it clear that he made the Lakers his preferred destination but our response is "nah, I prefer to have KL than him" or "if we miss out PG13, it is not a big deal", whereas I can imagine OKC is being 100% committed wanting him to stay. Let's stop flirting with other players, just focus on signing him before he changes his mind. |
Bro, we're trying to acquire a third star in addition to LeBron and PG, not choosing to pursue Kawhi instead of PG. If we are able to execute a trade for Kawhi while dumping Deng, we will have enough to sign both LBJ and PG. |
Getting KL while dumping Deng? Only remotely possible scenario is to give up both Ingram and Lonzo, which I think is absurb. |
I don't know what kind of package we're looking to put together for Kawhi. My point is that we have not abandoned the pursuit of Paul George in favor for Kawhi Leonard.
We already have LeBron and PG wrapped up. We want to add a third star in Kawhi. We are aiming for three. |
We can't have all three. If we did, we wouldn't have Ingram, Lonzo and JR. We would go from a young team to an aging team. Think of it like this: it takes one asset to move Deng and it takes one asset to trade for KL. JR would have to be renounced for cap space. |
It is possible to get all three. Yes, we would have to get rid of a lot of our youth, but it is possible. Even without giving up Ball. That scenario is listed on the first page of the Kawhi thread.
I'm operating under the assumption that we already have both Paul George and LeBron James guaranteed to come, under the table, and yes through tampering. So if that is true, and the fact that we are pursuing Kawhi Leonard is true, then that means our front office has to be willing to give up a lot of our youth to get Kawhi.
I don't know what kind of package they are willing to offer, but if some way, somehow the Spurs relent and agree to trade Kawhi to us, it is possible to acquire all three. And if you don't want to give up Lonzo, the package would have to be:
Ingram, Kuzma, Wagner, Zubac, Bryant, Deng, while renouncing Randle. This actually works according to the rules on the first page of the Kawhi thread.
I understand we get rid of a ton of our youth, it's not my preference. But if we know that LBJ and PG are coming, and we are still pursuing Kawhi, it is possible to add Kawhi with LBJ and PG without giving up Lonzo.
Is it likely? No, but it's not impossible. We're obviously pursuing it under the knowledge that we already have two other max free agents. So that means we are willing to give up a lot of our youth.
I'm cool if we only get LBJ and PG and keep as much youth as we can. But if we acquire Kawhi, and the front office is cool with it, then I'm down with it , as well. |
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cyborgspider
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
So Detroit traded Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, lottery pick, n 2nd pick —> Blake Griffin —-> Carmelo Anthony
Horrible |
Well, one character trait in life that is vastly important is the ability to take objective self inventory.
Detroit needs to realize that the Griffin trade was a debacle and do their best to fix it. How? Unloading Griffin for an expiring.
OKC does it because he’s from OKC, gives the team star power/curb appeal, and it helps soothethe aches of losing both Durant and George.
The only real question is rather or not OKC would rather have the capspace next offseason. Griffin has a horrible contract. PR, however, is a real thing though, and Griffin going home would be all the buzz in those parts.
It may be a good move for both sides. |
We're just ignoring Melo's No Trade Clause now? Seems he was ok with ok-c for a "title run" but going to DETROIT to play alongside Reggie Jackson? Even for just a year? I think it's more realistic he gets waived & stretched or he gives back 50 bucks in a contract buy-out and then he can sign on to his next destination with a room or MLE exception. |
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Al13
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 2336
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
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Car54
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Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| lakersgreat24 wrote: | | Not saying PG isnt coming hut this why you dont “just wait till he is comingnfor free” i was so pissed when people were sayingg that and now they are saying the sane thing about Kawhi..... seriously this waiting fame doesnt work on free agents. If Paul George doesnt come hopefully we learn our lesson and fans stop saying that crap. |
Well we could have traded players for him and still lose him in the off season.
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| repandpresent wrote: | Heavy fines were thrown around the last time anyone from the Lakers front office mentioned Paul George.
Not only has our front office been quiet, so has PG13 and his camp.
I think that both sides want it to be as clean as possible until July 1st.
Both sides are just trying to stay clear from tampering allegations
PG13 is coming and LBJ is as well.
Both Nike athletes. Word on the internet is that Nike is starting to heavily discount LBJ Cavs jerseys. |
I think there is a lot of truth to this.
The Lakers are treated differently by the league and have to even more careful than other teams in these type of situations.
LeBron is still a heavy favorite to come here betting wise, I can't find any lines on George and I think that is because it is a forgone conclusion.
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lakers4life78
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Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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If LeBron came and George didn’t, would be a blessing in disguise. You keep deng and don’t have to renounce Randle. You have 47 million for Lebon and another player, maybe KCP back on a one year deal. You resign Randle. You roll with LeBron, Ingram, Ball, Hart, kuzma, Randle, Wagner, KcP next season. Come next year. You stretch deng who has only a year remaining and would only count against the cap for 3 years at 6-7 million. You sign Leonard.
This scenario completely screws over the Spurs as well as it gives the Lakers the max slot for 2019 that Leonard can threaten them or any other suitor with.
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LuciusAllen
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
It’s not impossible. But Melo would only be salary ballast in that deal. OKC would need to give up a lot more to make the trade equitable. |
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Lakers_GOAT_Team_16X
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| I think PG13 is deciding much better when he meets with Magic and Pelinka maybe that helps decide much. didn’t Paul say he would love to play with Lebron in a interview |
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epak
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Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Al13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
Oladipo is gone after 2016-17 and shines in Indy.
Hopefully PG is gone after 2017-18 and shines in L.A. |
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Nash Vegas
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Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
It’s not impossible. But Melo would only be salary ballast in that deal. OKC would need to give up a lot more to make the trade equitable. |
Why would Detroit want Melo?
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SGV-Laker fan
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Posts: 8880
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | lakersgreat24 wrote: | | Not saying PG isnt coming hut this why you dont “just wait till he is comingnfor free” i was so pissed when people were sayingg that and now they are saying the sane thing about Kawhi..... seriously this waiting fame doesnt work on free agents. If Paul George doesnt come hopefully we learn our lesson and fans stop saying that crap. |
Well we could have traded players for him and still lose him in the off season. |
Outside of Dwight Howard name one big name free agent in recent years who signed with a new team after been traded? It’s a different league now, free agents have too much to lose jumping from team to team, unless the benefits are overwhelmingly in their favor, most of them are tend to stay put. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Al13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
If you look at that number in isolation, no. But one would do better looking at win shares or estimated wins or some other measure of player value based on what they do on the court. And using those metrics the answer is that George does bring wins. But the reality is that OKC, outside of Russ and Adams, are just not every good.
At the end of the day, ignoring the one season he was injured, PG's teams are in the playoffs every season he's played. And the one season he was injured his team went from an EC finalist to a lottery team. When he returned healthy, they were back in the playoffs (of course the Pacers didn't slide back last season because of the emergence of Oladipo). |
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32
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Posts: 73071
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: |
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He might take the money. How much will it be. 5 years $150M?
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Eindhoven
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Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Off Topic: You think OKC would send Carmelo to Detroit for the prodigal son Blake Griffin if George bolts to the Lakers? Me thinks this could be possible. |
It’s not impossible. But Melo would only be salary ballast in that deal. OKC would need to give up a lot more to make the trade equitable. |
Just reminding Carmelo has a no trade clause, I'm not sure he would like to go to Detroit.
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Carmelo opting in and spouting off to his critics about it.
Looks like a lot of fun coming up in capped out OKC...
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: |
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I might take the money if I read social media and saw all the nasty sh*t ungrateful LA people said about me all day.
Only thing that might save us is that I'm sure OKC people might be saying equally messed up stuff as well.
People don't understand anything about salesmanship. Every line of crap you spew against a potential free agent is like booing them at a game. You by yourself doesn't really amount to much... but thousands at a time does.
We should all be saying nice stuff... if only to land him here. After he signs on the dotted line... if you don't like what he does... then you complain. |
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Al13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG and Melo in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG and Melo in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
Edited the original post to make it a more appropriate comparison... PG actually IMPROVED OKC’s record despite also adding Carmelo Anthony. That’s how good he is. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG and Melo in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG and Melo in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
Edited the original post to make it a more appropriate comparison... PG actually IMPROVED OKC’s record despite also adding Carmelo Anthony. That’s how good he is. |
I would say that's improving your 100 yard dash time with an extra 25 pounds on your back. Not bad. |
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1hu2ren3dui4
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Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 15403
Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Got a question.
If you could get Paul George but he didn't want to play with LeBron. Would you do it? |
If turning him down means we get LBJ, then yes, I turn down PG13.
George is a great player. LeBron transforms franchises.
OKC w/o PG and Melo in 2016-17: 47-35
OKC with PG and Melo in 2017-18: 48-34 |
is this worth max money ? i‘m still torn on George |
Edited the original post to make it a more appropriate comparison... PG actually IMPROVED OKC’s record despite also adding Carmelo Anthony. That’s how good he is. |
I would say that's improving your 100 yard dash time with an extra 25 pounds on your back. Not bad. |
Well put. |
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Nash Vegas
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| lakers4life78 wrote: | If LeBron came and George didn’t, would be a blessing in disguise. You keep deng and don’t have to renounce Randle. You have 47 million for Lebon and another player, maybe KCP back on a one year deal. You resign Randle. You roll with LeBron, Ingram, Ball, Hart, kuzma, Randle, Wagner, KcP next season. Come next year. You stretch deng who has only a year remaining and would only count against the cap for 3 years at 6-7 million. You sign Leonard.
This scenario completely screws over the Spurs as well as it gives the Lakers the max slot for 2019 that Leonard can threaten them or any other suitor with. |
Deng will be an expiring next summer, which makes him slightly more appealing to move.
Also getting Kawhi next season makes more sense, we can see and gauge how he performs this season first coming off his major injury. I honestly don’t see him playing anywhere close to 70 games this season, about 60 games might be his highest threshold.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144473
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | I can see why PG13 doesn't want to come. I don't think he is being respected or appreciated by us or the front office. He is not a top 5 player on this league but he is one of the best two-way players. He has made it clear that he made the Lakers his preferred destination but our response is "nah, I prefer to have KL than him" or "if we miss out PG13, it is not a big deal", whereas I can imagine OKC is being 100% committed wanting him to stay. Let's stop flirting with other players, just focus on signing him before he changes his mind. |
What George made clear was that he wanted traded from Indy.
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