Paul George did not take Lakers meeting because he was afraid he might “Straddle the Fence" (pg. 1027)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:16 am    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
MJST wrote:
The only way the Thunder are gonna convince Carmelo to not opt in, is if they tell him straight up he's coming off the bench next year regardless of what he wants.



Melo isn't opting out. Players only opt out when they can make more money.

His agent will make sure he doesn't opt out, as his agent will lose a lot of money. Agents have way more power in the equation than most people realize.

Melo and his agent will force a buyout. That's what washed NBA stars do. His buddy Wade will give him tips on how to do it.


Melo will be lucky to get a MLE offer if he hits FA.

He will likely go the Wade route-get most of his $27-28m bought out and join a team of his choice (and then hit FA in 2019 where he'll get MLE or less).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
MJST wrote:
The only way the Thunder are gonna convince Carmelo to not opt in, is if they tell him straight up he's coming off the bench next year regardless of what he wants.



Melo isn't opting out. Players only opt out when they can make more money.

His agent will make sure he doesn't opt out, as his agent will lose a lot of money. Agents have way more power in the equation than most people realize.

Melo and his agent will force a buyout. That's what washed NBA stars do. His buddy Wade will give him tips on how to do it.


Washed is correct. He's been over the hill for 3 years, and prior to that he was a black hole with the ball for another couple. For me, his last big hurrah was the Olympics.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject:

[quote="babyskyhook"]
Judah wrote:

The Lakers are much more attractive than they were before in terms of talent, in much better shape cap-wise and will only get better over the life of PG's contract.

So he's going to ignore all that (and all the LA/coming home stuff) to re-sign with the capped-out Thunder so he can watch Westbrick jack up insane numbers of shots and lose in the first round, all while living in OKC instead of coming home ?

No way.
PG will be wearing purple and gold next season.


Having team with 'similar sized' players at every position who will be able to switch regularly, should elevate the Lakers' defensive profile. Fun to see if 'position less' basketball is actually possible?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
MJST wrote:
The only way the Thunder are gonna convince Carmelo to not opt in, is if they tell him straight up he's coming off the bench next year regardless of what he wants.



Melo isn't opting out. Players only opt out when they can make more money.

His agent will make sure he doesn't opt out, as his agent will lose a lot of money. Agents have way more power in the equation than most people realize.

Melo and his agent will force a buyout. That's what washed NBA stars do. His buddy Wade will give him tips on how to do it.


Melo will be lucky to get a MLE offer if he hits FA.

He will likely go the Wade route-get most of his $27-28m bought out and join a team of his choice (and then hit FA in 2019 where he'll get MLE or less).


And he'll sign with the Cavs.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
MJST wrote:
The only way the Thunder are gonna convince Carmelo to not opt in, is if they tell him straight up he's coming off the bench next year regardless of what he wants.



Melo isn't opting out. Players only opt out when they can make more money.

His agent will make sure he doesn't opt out, as his agent will lose a lot of money. Agents have way more power in the equation than most people realize.

Melo and his agent will force a buyout. That's what washed NBA stars do. His buddy Wade will give him tips on how to do it.


Melo will be lucky to get a MLE offer if he hits FA.

He will likely go the Wade route-get most of his $27-28m bought out and join a team of his choice (and then hit FA in 2019 where he'll get MLE or less).


And he'll sign with the Cavs.


That assumes LBJ will be there.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject:

I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.


Melo has a no trade clause.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.


Melo has a no trade clause.


He had to waive it to get traded to OKC. He no longer has the NTC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.


Melo has a no trade clause.


He had to waive it to get traded to OKC. He no longer has the NTC


Ah. Brainfart of mine.

I don't think even those teams want Melo.

His press conference (let alone on court play) have shown he's a shell of himself who thinks too highly of his diminished game.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.


Melo has a no trade clause.


He had to waive it to get traded to OKC. He no longer has the NTC


Ah. Brainfart of mine.

I don't think even those teams want Melo.

His press conference (let alone on court play) have shown he's a shell of himself who thinks too highly of his diminished game.


Yeah, guy is probably a distraction at this point. But teams like the Bulls and the Hawks aren't really going anywhere soon. He could even help them with tanking while being a draw

I don't know if OKC could actually trade him, but I definitely don't think it's a deadlock like people have been saying. And if they trade Melo, they can keep PG. The threat is real.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
I could see Carmelo getting traded.

Yes, he's no longer a FP, but there's a lot of teams with cap space out there with little to no hope to sign a top Free Agent that wouldn't mind him around drawing fans for a 1 year rental.

I'm talking about teams like Sacramento, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas...

If OKC can trade him for financial relief, it'd allow them to resign PG. At this point, PG + Melo off the books is the best route for them. They're not going balls deep into luxury tax to keep this fake big3 alive.


Melo has a no trade clause.


He had to waive it to get traded to OKC. He no longer has the NTC


Ah. Brainfart of mine.

I don't think even those teams want Melo.

His press conference (let alone on court play) have shown he's a shell of himself who thinks too highly of his diminished game.


Yeah, guy is probably a distraction at this point. But teams like the Bulls and the Hawks aren't really going anywhere soon. He could even help them with tanking while being a draw

I don't know if OKC could actually trade him, but I definitely don't think it's a deadlock like people have been saying. And if they trade Melo, they can keep PG. The threat is real.


I do think that OKC would have to send an asset out to trade Melo though. They don't have picks to trade nor should they. It's going to be a major distraction.

And IIRC, Jerami Grant is a UFA? He should play more but he may be too expensive to keep.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject:

He still has the NTC, it didn’t vanish when he got traded to OKC.

Confirmed via Larry Coon Salary cap FAQ. (I’m on phone so I can’t copy paste or link it easily, but it’s there)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject:

cyborgspider wrote:
He still has the NTC, it didn’t vanish when he got traded to OKC.

Confirmed via Larry Coon Salary cap FAQ. (I’m on phone so I can’t copy paste or link it easily, but it’s there)


Wait what? I'm so confused now.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
He still has the NTC, it didn’t vanish when he got traded to OKC.

Confirmed via Larry Coon Salary cap FAQ. (I’m on phone so I can’t copy paste or link it easily, but it’s there)


Wait what? I'm so confused now.


Yeah, he's right. From Larry Coon's FAQ:

Quote:
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade clauses -- currently only Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki have them.

If a player with a negotiated no-trade clause consents to a trade and is traded, his no-trade clause remains in effect with his new team.



They kept talking about him waiving his NTC, I thought it was an actual waive.

So OKC is screwed . Better for us.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
He still has the NTC, it didn’t vanish when he got traded to OKC.

Confirmed via Larry Coon Salary cap FAQ. (I’m on phone so I can’t copy paste or link it easily, but it’s there)


Wait what? I'm so confused now.


I always assumed it was written into his contract for the entire life of the contract. So he'd have to waive it each time before getting traded. I could be wrong, but that was always the assumption I had of how NTC's work.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
He still has the NTC, it didn’t vanish when he got traded to OKC.

Confirmed via Larry Coon Salary cap FAQ. (I’m on phone so I can’t copy paste or link it easily, but it’s there)


Wait what? I'm so confused now.


Yeah, he's right. From Larry Coon's FAQ:

Quote:
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade clauses -- currently only Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki have them.

If a player with a negotiated no-trade clause consents to a trade and is traded, his no-trade clause remains in effect with his new team.



They kept talking about him waiving his NTC, I thought it was an actual waive.

So OKC is screwed . Better for us.


Oh wow. Yeah. That's a major problem for them both cap-wise, and locker room wise. Not exactly a team full of unselfish guys.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject:

I think it's Houston or bust for Melo. He was holding out for that with NY and only relented on OKC when that fell through. Now he's watching CP3 live his dream scenario. OKC is probably looking at a choice of bringing Melo back, an expensive buyout or Ryan Anderson. The buyout and stretch seems most likely. But does George love Westbrook THAT much to stay....
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject:

I would pay to see what people close to PG13 think about russells 90 shots in the last 2 games of the series when PG13 is clearly the better player

PG13 do you really want to play with that typw of ball hug? or next to LBJ? and Lonzo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
I think it's Houston or bust for Melo. He was holding out for that with NY and only relented on OKC when that fell through. Now he's watching CP3 live his dream scenario. OKC is probably looking at a choice of bringing Melo back, an expensive buyout or Ryan Anderson. The buyout and stretch seems most likely. But does George love Westbrook THAT much to stay....


If it's about friendship, there's no requirement that you play on the same team to be best buds. And if WB won't be PG13's friend if he leaves, then they were never buds in the first place.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.

That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.

In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over.

LINK
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject:

Imagine approaching the ownership group and asking them to pour in that kind of astounding money for a team that lost in the first round. I don't see it.

And Jerami Grant is a UFA IIRC. He's going to be too costly to keep.

If I'm OKC, I'm looking to go under the luxury tax this year and start getting out of the repeater tax. Takes 2 seasons to do that.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject:

Thunder got WB signed long term as BO draw. So maybe losing PG13 would be a better move financially. They are not challenging in the West either way with GSW and Rockets so strong.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.

That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.

In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over.

LINK

OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George.

They'll likely try to be players in free agency next summer when Melo is off the books, but if they strike out, it wouldn't shock me if they traded Westbrook. He'll be 31 at that point, and his game projects to age horribly. They'd probably be better served to build around a couple high draft picks and Adams.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Thunder got WB signed long term as BO draw. So maybe losing PG13 would be a better move financially. They are not challenging in the West either way with GSW and Rockets so strong.


Plus, they'd probably need a new coach which is asking ownership to fork over even more money (while paying Donovan).

I think their #1 goal was to re-sign WB, which they did.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
32 wrote:
Quote:
Free-agent outlook: Keeping George is the challenge here, and to do so will take a contract starting at about $30 million, and worth around $180 million over five years. That will push the Thunder’s payroll up to about $150 million, with roster spots still to be filled. If, conservatively, we put OKC $30 million over the $121 million expected tax threshold, the team (as a repeat tax payer) will pay $105 million in penalty for that $30 million.

That projects to a $250 million outlay for a roster that produced a middling season in the West and was easily KO’d by Utah in the playoffs. The Thunder want to keep George, but surely someone in the organization must be asking whether it’s worth the pallets of cash needed to hold together a team that was a lot more sizzle than steak.

In wheeling out big money to keep this core together, the Thunder will make themselves unlikely to hold onto valuable, low-cost role players like Raymond Felton, Corey Brewer and, most important, Jerami Grant, who has developed nicely with the team in the past year-and-a-half. It all doesn’t make much sense, but it might become an insignificant point if George simply decides to sign elsewhere and forces the Thunder to start over.

LINK

OKC's tax situation is an important part of the equation that not a ton of people are talking about here. Like the article says, they were a first round exit that barely snuck in to the playoffs anyways. I'm not sure a small market team like that really wants to foot an enormous bill for a team that has no real clear path to contention even with George.

They'll likely try to be players in free agency next summer when Melo is off the books, but if they strike out, it wouldn't shock me if they traded Westbrook. He'll be 31 at that point, and his game projects to age horribly. They'd probably be better served to build around a couple high draft picks and Adams.


They should trade him now and try to get a high draft pick from a lottery team like the Bulls did. Teams should start their rebuilding earlier instead of too late. Maybe that entices Carmelo to not opt in.
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