Paul George did not take Lakers meeting because he was afraid he might “Straddle the Fence" (pg. 1027)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
He just turned 28.


Exactly. This should be the only contract we give him. I've talked about this extensively before. About how only hall of famers have shown to maintain high play throughout their 30's. The regular stars are bad contracts in their 30's, especially for MAX 10 yr vet super duper whatever. I hope we're not the ones who give him that one when he qualifies unless somehow his play deserves it, which I highly doubt.


He’ll be worth it.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Paul George is a max player. Period.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
IT played less than 20 games for us. Brook and KCP’s production will be covered by PG13 and I believe...Brook. We will have another max slot to make up for IT’s 17 game contributions, some of which weren’t that special. I don’t think you can equivocate Brook/KCP for a guy who played 17 games for us.


Isaiah Thomas at 60% became more of a difference maker than JC has become in Cleveland at 100% thus far.

I'd say as far as backup PGs go, IT is the best one out there, and also the one we're most likely to get a bargain on due to the surgery.

Most productive + bargain you'd think more Lakers fans would jump on that.


Most Laker fans aren’t keen on signing injured players. We had enough injury problems last season without actively going out and looking for more.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
He just turned 28.


Exactly. This should be the only contract we give him. I've talked about this extensively before. About how only hall of famers have shown to maintain high play throughout their 30's. The regular stars are bad contracts in their 30's, especially for MAX 10 yr vet super duper whatever. I hope we're not the ones who give him that one when he qualifies unless somehow his play deserves it, which I highly doubt.


Chances are he opts out after 2 seasons to chase the 35% max.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Paul George is a max player. Period.


In today’s financial climate, yes. 20 years ago when only star first option players got the max, no. The popularity of the game really benefits 2nd/3rd option players and I like seeing them get their share of the pie.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Saying PG will be immediately flipped by OKC is a major presumption. Keep in mind Melo is only under contract for one more year. They can get back under the tax the following year.

Also a presumption to say the Lakers can't make playoffs next year. The wolves won 29, 31, then 47 games after adding Jimmy Butler.

The Celtics went from 25 to 40 after adding IT.

The Lakers are a playoff team if they can add Paul George--which is what OKC is. They're a contender if they add someone else. OKC is not a contender and they can't add anyone.


Does the curent CBA still permit no trade clauses? I think adding such a clause might give us an advantage in the PG13 sweepstakes. I mean a large part of the lakers appeal for PG13 is that he is coming home to California where his family is. Also it would mean stability for his kids since they won't have to worry about switching schools and such. I think we should leverage on this desire.

It would be a major risk on our part but hey you don't win big without risking big.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:

Does the curent CBA still permit no trade clauses?


Quote:
A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim.

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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject:

George would have to play with us for 4 years to get a NTC.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
George would have to play with us for 4 years to get a NTC.


I believe they were referring to Pg getting a no trade clause to protect himself from getting traded by OKC like Griffin was by the Clips. It’s a given that you can’t give a NTC to a guy you’re picking up in FA.
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Vanquish
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Vanquish wrote:

Does the curent CBA still permit no trade clauses?


Quote:
A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim.


Thanks. So we can't use that tactic

Could we just include a 15% trade kicker instead to PG13's contract? Given the annual raises to a contract starting at 30 mil and nba luxury taxes, I think including a trade kicker would make PG13 virtually untradable. Thus - in effect - operating as a de facto no trade clause.
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ToastedMuffins
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vanquish wrote:

Does the curent CBA still permit no trade clauses?


Quote:
A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim.


Thanks. So we can't use that tactic

Could we just include a 15% trade kicker instead to PG13's contract? Given the annual raises to a contract starting at 30 mil and nba luxury taxes, I think including a trade kicker would make PG13 virtually untradable. Thus - in effect - operating as a de facto no trade clause.


A trade kicker can't cause a player's salary to rise above the max.
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lakersfever714
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Paul George is a max player. Period.


You probably said the same thing about DeRozan in 2016. FYI, Indiana has a better record this year without PG13.
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Vanquish
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject:

ToastedMuffins wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Vanquish wrote:

Does the curent CBA still permit no trade clauses?


Quote:
A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim.


Thanks. So we can't use that tactic

Could we just include a 15% trade kicker instead to PG13's contract? Given the annual raises to a contract starting at 30 mil and nba luxury taxes, I think including a trade kicker would make PG13 virtually untradable. Thus - in effect - operating as a de facto no trade clause.


A trade kicker can't cause a player's salary to rise above the max.


Darn okies out of ideas
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Judah
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Judah wrote:
Paul George is a max player. Period.


You probably said the same thing about DeRozan in 2016. FYI, Indiana has a better record this year without PG13.

I didn't, actually. As usual, you've managed to be completely wrong. Again.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject:

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George spent most of the season talking about why he was considering returning to the Thunder, and there was even a recent push on the rumor mill from the Philadelphia 76ers, but as free agency grows closer and closer, the focus has shifted right back to George's hometown Lakers. If Bill Reiter of CBS Sports is to be believed, George is not only going to join the Lakers, but do so quickly. He appeared on America's Lakers Podcast (h/t Lakers Outsider), and made it very clear what he expected George to do.

“I think Paul George is going to come. I think he’s going to come early," Reiter said, "I would bet everything I own on the face of the earth that George is going to Los Angeles. I think he’ll do it very quickly in free agency so that he is an important piece.” The move, in Reiter's eyes, open the door for LeBron James. Based on James' own history in free agency, timeliness will be a factor.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rumor-paul-george-to-sign-with-lakers-early-in-free-agency/
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
George would have to play with us for 4 years to get a NTC.


I think he could get one from Indiana.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
IT played less than 20 games for us. Brook and KCP’s production will be covered by PG13 and I believe...Brook. We will have another max slot to make up for IT’s 17 game contributions, some of which weren’t that special. I don’t think you can equivocate Brook/KCP for a guy who played 17 games for us.


Isaiah Thomas at 60% became more of a difference maker than JC has become in Cleveland at 100% thus far.

I'd say as far as backup PGs go, IT is the best one out there, and also the one we're most likely to get a bargain on due to the surgery.

Most productive + bargain you'd think more Lakers fans would jump on that.


Most Laker fans aren’t keen on signing injured players. We had enough injury problems last season without actively going out and looking for more.


The same Lakers fans want to save on any and everything to protect their "max cap space" but don't want to deal with the requirements that "bargains" usually happen under.

If a guy that can net you 18 ppg while coming off the bench can be had, they go "well he may cost too much in free agency" so that player then needs surgery which brings down their price the same fans go "yeah but he had surgery."

They essentially want

an 18 ppg off the bench player that can play defense and is 6'3 with no ego whom is also willing to take 5M a year.. while being 100% healthy.

Good luck with that.

Isaiah Thomas is the best backup pg on the market and the reason he can be likely had for a bargain is because he's having surgery, it ALSO allows you to utilize a 1+1 deal while being the only team that may be willing to pay him such which fully takes advantage of the cap hold we got in the trade with him which is LESS THAN Clarkson's contract he signed with us.

But you know.. semantics..

Or you know...keep going for 22 year olds that take the veterans minimum and pray they become all-stars and super 6th men. But then if they do, lose them in the off-season cause they'll 'cost too much to retain' and cut into dem max plans!.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:39 pm    Post subject:

^^ I can see a path where IT comes back here. If LBJ doesn't come here and we are punting space for 2019, both IT and Brook will likely be back on 1 year deals. What matters is if someone is willing to give IT something like 3 years $36 million, in which case, we have no chance.

But if the prognosis is that IT will be ready to play at the start of the season, I could see him getting a 1 year deal in the $12-18 million range to sweeten it. IT can score, gets to the foul line and makes his shots, and wasn't a problem here last season. If Lonzo struggles, or continues to be injury prone, there is a lot of minutes available to IT to showcase getting a bigger deal in 2019.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:19 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
^^ I can see a path where IT comes back here. If LBJ doesn't come here and we are punting space for 2019, both IT and Brook will likely be back on 1 year deals. What matters is if someone is willing to give IT something like 3 years $36 million, in which case, we have no chance.

But if the prognosis is that IT will be ready to play at the start of the season, I could see him getting a 1 year deal in the $12-18 million range to sweeten it. IT can score, gets to the foul line and makes his shots, and wasn't a problem here last season. If Lonzo struggles, or continues to be injury prone, there is a lot of minutes available to IT to showcase getting a bigger deal in 2019.


A 1+1 deal for Isaiah Thomas with a Team Option on the 2nd year would be the best case scenario for us and probably for him too, if he plays well during the season he gets that 2nd year. But no matter what we pay him that first year it will only count against our cap to his cap hold. Which was cheaper than Clarkson's contract.

So win/win.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:43 am    Post subject:

Freddie Buckets wrote:
Quote:
George spent most of the season talking about why he was considering returning to the Thunder, and there was even a recent push on the rumor mill from the Philadelphia 76ers, but as free agency grows closer and closer, the focus has shifted right back to George's hometown Lakers. If Bill Reiter of CBS Sports is to be believed, George is not only going to join the Lakers, but do so quickly. He appeared on America's Lakers Podcast (h/t Lakers Outsider), and made it very clear what he expected George to do.

“I think Paul George is going to come. I think he’s going to come early," Reiter said, "I would bet everything I own on the face of the earth that George is going to Los Angeles. I think he’ll do it very quickly in free agency so that he is an important piece.” The move, in Reiter's eyes, open the door for LeBron James. Based on James' own history in free agency, timeliness will be a factor.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rumor-paul-george-to-sign-with-lakers-early-in-free-agency/

Yeah, this one was posted several days ago. Good stuff. With each passing day, it's feeling more and more inevitable. The hard part is what we’re going through now- waiting. It's like looking at all of the presents under the Christmas tree, and judging by the shape of one of them, you can sort of tell it's that one toy you've been dying to have, but you know you have to wait until Christmas morning to open it
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:15 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
^^ I can see a path where IT comes back here. If LBJ doesn't come here and we are punting space for 2019, both IT and Brook will likely be back on 1 year deals. What matters is if someone is willing to give IT something like 3 years $36 million, in which case, we have no chance.

But if the prognosis is that IT will be ready to play at the start of the season, I could see him getting a 1 year deal in the $12-18 million range to sweeten it. IT can score, gets to the foul line and makes his shots, and wasn't a problem here last season. If Lonzo struggles, or continues to be injury prone, there is a lot of minutes available to IT to showcase getting a bigger deal in 2019.


I have a feeling IT would bet on himself and do a 1 + 1 before he’d sign a longer term for $12 million per. This guy was in the MVP discussion not that long ago
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject:

Highly doubt a team is paying IT North of the MLE. he just had hip surgery after missing most of last year with the same hip issue. One year deal most likely.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Highly doubt a team is paying IT North of the MLE. he just had hip surgery after missing most of last year with the same hip issue. One year deal most likely.


Agreed. I think that IT will be back. If he's gonna take below market money, he's gonna take it from LA.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Highly doubt a team is paying IT North of the MLE. he just had hip surgery after missing most of last year with the same hip issue. One year deal most likely.


Agreed. I think that IT will be back. If he's gonna take below market money, he's gonna take it from LA.


I’m not sure about that at all. I think we will get pg13/jules. I think we have a good shot at LBJ too. If not second max we will likely pay Brook a big one year deal. Maybe IT takes the room exception then?
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject:

Thomas would be a huge catalyst on offense. Especially if he is close to his pre-hip surgery level. My concern lies on his ability on defense.

Depending on the cost and roster makeup I would prefer Beverly, Smart or even KCP type over IT. More overall impact on both ends of the court
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