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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Hey PG, let’s go get your max running mate, live in sunny LA, play with these young studs on the verge of breaking into the playoff, contend for a chip or 2, and oh, we’ll max you... big banner awaiting you... PG coming home (or spot up and watch WB shoot 47 times) |
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rst08tierney Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Posts: 970
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Vanquish wrote: |
3) Not actually knowing the salary cap rules inside and out. There was a post in LG sometime back, which stated that Mitch agreed to Moz/Deng because he thought there was still an amnesty provision in the current CBA. For a GM, to not know the CBA like the back of his hand, is frankly not good. |
LG posts have more factual errors than a Donald Trump tweet, so be careful using them as an information source
Here's the actual story: Deng and Moz were signed in the summer before the 2016-17 season. Mitch expected that the next CBA, which wasn't finalized until December 2016, would have an amnesty provision, as the previous CBA had one. But to a lot of people's surprise, it didn't. Some people have speculated that this expectation was part of the reason he gave those two big contracts, but I don't believe Mitch himself has ever said that. | |
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BigBallerBrand Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 5785 Location: LA
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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BigBallerBrand wrote: | https://clutchpoints.com/thunder-rumors-paul-george-agent-tells-news-anchor-hell-re-sign-with-thunder/
probably BS but just in case you guys were interested |
Wonder what's our FO's relationship with the agent. He sounded pretty cold regarding Lakers interest in re-signing Randle as well. Hope Magic hasn't forgotten that players can get influenced by the advice their agents give. It's not just about charming them in meetings. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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saetarubia wrote: | BigBallerBrand wrote: | https://clutchpoints.com/thunder-rumors-paul-george-agent-tells-news-anchor-hell-re-sign-with-thunder/
probably BS but just in case you guys were interested |
Wonder what's our FO's relationship with the agent. He sounded pretty cold regarding Lakers interest in re-signing Randle as well. Hope Magic hasn't forgotten that players can get influenced by the advice their agents give. It's not just about charming them in meetings. |
The Lakers decided to make Randle a secondary priority, and the agent is ticked off about that. Such is life. Once the Lakers made their decision about Randle, I don't see that trying to charm the agent would matter much. And I don't think it will affect them doing business together. |
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LFAN4LIFE Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Jun 2014 Posts: 498
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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If you guys remember the quote posted on the first page of this thread, its was from a year ago but its still very revealing...
Quote: |
"For the Lakers, they are pretty confident and have a great deal of belief that they're in position to get Paul George in 2018 whether he stays in Indiana or he's traded elsewhere."
"The Lakers don't have to give assets up to go and try to trade for him. In fact, I think they have been encouraged to do just the opposite. If Paul George goes there, he wants them to have assets, he wants them to be as good of a team as they can when he walks in." |
https://sports.yahoo.com/video/woj-report-draft-lottery-order-120000042.html
Yes this was a year ago, but George basically through back channels let the Lakers know he wanted to be there and dont trade anyone for him. Because no matter who I get traded to, Im still coming to the Lakers. So if your telling me George after all of this is going back to the Thunder to Live in Oklahoma City and play with Stat padder Westbrook? Just doesn't make any sense to me. The second the playoffs ended for the Thunder, he was in LA the next day. |
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wstrojan Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 184
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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saetarubia wrote: | BigBallerBrand wrote: | https://clutchpoints.com/thunder-rumors-paul-george-agent-tells-news-anchor-hell-re-sign-with-thunder/
probably BS but just in case you guys were interested |
Wonder what's our FO's relationship with the agent. He sounded pretty cold regarding Lakers interest in re-signing Randle as well. Hope Magic hasn't forgotten that players can get influenced by the advice their agents give. It's not just about charming them in meetings. |
this would literally be the first time in sports history that an agent told everyone else not to bother speaking to his client (thereby depressing his client's value and market) b/c he client intended on staying where he's at. |
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cyborgspider Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Sep 2017 Posts: 930
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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BigBallerBrand, this had been discussed a couple days ago and that guy is full of crap. Said Durant was gonna sign a 5-year max too and we all know what happened.
The fact that he said a 5-year max, when it behooved Durant to take a 1+1 to get into the 35% Max Contract territory, was the most ridiculous notion. |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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LFAN4LIFE wrote: | If you guys remember the quote posted on the first page of this thread, its was from a year ago but its still very revealing...
Quote: |
"For the Lakers, they are pretty confident and have a great deal of belief that they're in position to get Paul George in 2018 whether he stays in Indiana or he's traded elsewhere."
"The Lakers don't have to give assets up to go and try to trade for him. In fact, I think they have been encouraged to do just the opposite. If Paul George goes there, he wants them to have assets, he wants them to be as good of a team as they can when he walks in." |
https://sports.yahoo.com/video/woj-report-draft-lottery-order-120000042.html
Yes this was a year ago, but George basically through back channels let the Lakers know he wanted to be there and dont trade anyone for him. Because no matter who I get traded to, Im still coming to the Lakers. So if your telling me George after all of this is going back to the Thunder to Live in Oklahoma City and play with Stat padder Westbrook? Just doesn't make any sense to me. The second the playoffs ended for the Thunder, he was in LA the next day. |
And if he was a lock back then, he would have to be even more of a lock now since the Lakers are a far better team today than they were at that time. He's coming. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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babyskyhook Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 18492 Location: The Garden Island
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | LFAN4LIFE wrote: | If you guys remember the quote posted on the first page of this thread, its was from a year ago but its still very revealing...
Quote: |
"For the Lakers, they are pretty confident and have a great deal of belief that they're in position to get Paul George in 2018 whether he stays in Indiana or he's traded elsewhere."
"The Lakers don't have to give assets up to go and try to trade for him. In fact, I think they have been encouraged to do just the opposite. If Paul George goes there, he wants them to have assets, he wants them to be as good of a team as they can when he walks in." |
https://sports.yahoo.com/video/woj-report-draft-lottery-order-120000042.html
Yes this was a year ago, but George basically through back channels let the Lakers know he wanted to be there and dont trade anyone for him. Because no matter who I get traded to, Im still coming to the Lakers. So if your telling me George after all of this is going back to the Thunder to Live in Oklahoma City and play with Stat padder Westbrook? Just doesn't make any sense to me. The second the playoffs ended for the Thunder, he was in LA the next day. |
And if he was a lock back then, he would have to be even more of a lock now since the Lakers are a far better team today than they were at that time. He's coming. |
This. |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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AirKobe8 wrote: | UKUGA wrote: | babyskyhook wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Vanquish wrote: |
3) Not actually knowing the salary cap rules inside and out. There was a post in LG sometime back, which stated that Mitch agreed to Moz/Deng because he thought there was still an amnesty provision in the current CBA. For a GM, to not know the CBA like the back of his hand, is frankly not good. |
LG posts have more factual errors than a Donald Trump tweet, so be careful using them as an information source
Here's the actual story: Deng and Moz were signed in the summer before the 2016-17 season. Mitch expected that the next CBA, which wasn't finalized until December 2016, would have an amnesty provision, as the previous CBA had one. But to a lot of people's surprise, it didn't. Some people have speculated that this expectation was part of the reason he gave those two big contracts, but I don't believe Mitch himself has ever said that. |
The fact that they expected the new CBA would have an amnesty clause was FO malpractice. NBA reporters with sources at the league office (like Zach Lowe) were saying a year ahead of time that there would be no amnesty clause in the new CBA because the cap was going to rise so much that there would be no need for it.
The fact that Zach Lowe (and other reporters) knew more about the upcoming CBA than one of the owners and the GM of the most profitable franchise in the league tells you everything to know about the Jim and Mitch era. It was absolutely unforgivable that they were making strategic decisions about the future of the franchise without having information that was easily obtainable.
Mitch was out of touch and behind the times, while Jim was insular and incompetent- their big picture strategy was a disaster time and time again. |
Yes. |
Also, it says a lot that a FO was giving out contracts planing ahead to amnesty them. WTF is that? |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
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Vanquish Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: London
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
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Jsthornton7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2018 Posts: 231
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
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€H£M£$TR¥ Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017 Posts: 3782
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jsthornton7 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
I can help here. Mitch saw the writing on the wall the moment Dwightmare and Nash didn’t pan out. Mambas injuries was a huge red flag for FAs.
The MozDeng root cause: desperation. Mitch was never going to survive an extended 4-5 year rebuild. Never. He signed the guys that he could get on a plane to LAX.
Do we hate the results? Hell yes.
Do I fault a man with no other choices making a desperate shot in the dark with a high risk high reward maneuver to save his lucrative gig? Nope.
Bottom line, we sent Mamba off correctly. And that 60 in Mambas last game was poetic and cyclical. Winning: It was a “nothing game” that embodied a laker legend’s winning career. I’m thankful for it.
But still... Mitch hurt us bad with those signings. Time heals all wounds, but the cut is still healing. _________________ DEAR BASKETBALL |
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Jsthornton7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2018 Posts: 231
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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€H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | Jsthornton7 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
I can help here. Mitch saw the writing on the wall the moment Dwightmare and Nash didn’t pan out. Mambas injuries was a huge red flag for FAs.
The MozDeng root cause: desperation. Mitch was never going to survive an extended 4-5 year rebuild. Never. He signed the guys that he could get on a plane to LAX.
Do we hate the results? Hell yes.
Do I fault a man with no other choices making a desperate shot in the dark with a high risk high reward maneuver to save his lucrative gig? Nope.
Bottom line, we sent Mamba off correctly. And that 60 in Mambas last game was poetic and cyclical. Winning: It was a “nothing game” that embodied a laker legend’s winning career. I’m thankful for it.
But still... Mitch hurt us bad with those signings. Time heals all wounds, but the cut is still healing. |
You have to remember though, those signings were made immediately as free agency opened. I think they were like the first 2 signings lol. |
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Vanquish Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: London
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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€H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | Jsthornton7 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
I can help here. Mitch saw the writing on the wall the moment Dwightmare and Nash didn’t pan out. Mambas injuries was a huge red flag for FAs.
The MozDeng root cause: desperation. Mitch was never going to survive an extended 4-5 year rebuild. Never. He signed the guys that he could get on a plane to LAX.
Do we hate the results? Hell yes.
Do I fault a man with no other choices making a desperate shot in the dark with a high risk high reward maneuver to save his lucrative gig? Nope.
Bottom line, we sent Mamba off correctly. And that 60 in Mambas last game was poetic and cyclical. Winning: It was a “nothing game” that embodied a laker legend’s winning career. I’m thankful for it.
But still... Mitch hurt us bad with those signings. Time heals all wounds, but the cut is still healing. |
This is my one worry over signing Lebron or any other superstar in their 30s. Both Nash and Malone looked like their own selves prior to signing with us, then one freak injury and that's it.
I really worry that if we get Lebron, it might be a nash/malone situation all over again. Both nash and malone took very good care of their bodies and it didn't make a difference. As they say, father time is undefeated. |
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Jsthornton7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2018 Posts: 231
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Vanquish wrote: | €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | Jsthornton7 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
I can help here. Mitch saw the writing on the wall the moment Dwightmare and Nash didn’t pan out. Mambas injuries was a huge red flag for FAs.
The MozDeng root cause: desperation. Mitch was never going to survive an extended 4-5 year rebuild. Never. He signed the guys that he could get on a plane to LAX.
Do we hate the results? Hell yes.
Do I fault a man with no other choices making a desperate shot in the dark with a high risk high reward maneuver to save his lucrative gig? Nope.
Bottom line, we sent Mamba off correctly. And that 60 in Mambas last game was poetic and cyclical. Winning: It was a “nothing game” that embodied a laker legend’s winning career. I’m thankful for it.
But still... Mitch hurt us bad with those signings. Time heals all wounds, but the cut is still healing. |
This is my one worry over signing Lebron or any other superstar in their 30s. Both Nash and Malone looked like their own selves prior to signing with us, then one freak injury and that's it.
I really worry that if we get Lebron, it might be a nash/malone situation all over again. Both nash and malone took very good care of their bodies and it didn't make a difference. As they say, father time is undefeated. |
I share your concern about Lebron but more due to overall miles vs a fear of him getting injured. He hasn’t really had injuries ever in his entire career so I think it’s a bit different.
Malone got injured but he was good when he played. I really feel like if we had Malone in the finals it would have turned out better. GP just didn’t really fit schematically with the triangle and I think Nash was just done with all the back/nerve problems. |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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€H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | Jsthornton7 wrote: | Vanquish wrote: | NBALakerLegends wrote: |
Mitch ruined his Lakers legacy by signing MozDeng. In 20 years we will look back on the Jim Buss era as the darkest of times and Mitch will be associated with that time as well. |
I prefer to think the passage of time makes us remember the good and if not forget - at least reduce in emphasis - the bad.
Mitch did a lot of good things for the lakers, including the insane Gasol Trade. Yes, he made a mistake with MozDeng, but everyone makes mistakes. I hope his legacy is not defined by it. |
I really think MozDeng is inexcusable. I almost wanna believe that nobody could be that stupid and that he knew he was on his way out or did it to force the Lakers to have to rely on their youth. I still can’t get my head around it. |
I can help here. Mitch saw the writing on the wall the moment Dwightmare and Nash didn’t pan out. Mambas injuries was a huge red flag for FAs.
The MozDeng root cause: desperation. Mitch was never going to survive an extended 4-5 year rebuild. Never. He signed the guys that he could get on a plane to LAX.
Do we hate the results? Hell yes.
Do I fault a man with no other choices making a desperate shot in the dark with a high risk high reward maneuver to save his lucrative gig? Nope.
Bottom line, we sent Mamba off correctly. And that 60 in Mambas last game was poetic and cyclical. Winning: It was a “nothing game” that embodied a laker legend’s winning career. I’m thankful for it.
But still... Mitch hurt us bad with those signings. Time heals all wounds, but the cut is still healing. |
But ”desperation” doesn't explain the extreme overpay. And that was the real issue- grossly overpaying them when you didn't have to. There's no reason to think that Mitch couldn't have signed either or both for far less. Overpaying is one thing, but handing out two albatross deals like that is what's difficult to wrap your mind around. No one else was going to offer them deals at those respective amounts, so it's not like they needed to outbid other teams or something
What's also sad is that I don't even think Deng is a useless player. I think he could still be a decent vet off the bench in your rotation. If his deal (and Mozgov’s) had been more manageable and the Lakers were somehow able to land two maxes this summer while keeping him, imagine having him come in off the bench at the 4 and playing him next to BI with all that length between the two of them. You could still switch everything and he probably would've been a decent plug-in guy off the bench. But....oh well *shrug* _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Freddie Buckets Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 9131
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe this is the pessimist in me but I keep thinking PG isn't going to end up here. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Freddie Buckets wrote: | Maybe this is the pessimist in me but I keep thinking PG isn't going to end up here. |
I'm a bit worried myself |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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^Either of you care to share why? _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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babyskyhook Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 18492 Location: The Garden Island
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t blame Mitch for signing Moz-Deng. Jim was an owner and Mitch’s boss, and he’s the one who put himself on the clock. It was his desperation that led to those contracts. That’s on Jim.
I fault Mitch for assuming there would be an amnesty in the CBA. As an NBA GM, part of your job is knowing what’s going on around the league. Zach Lowe knew there would be no amnesty, but Mitch didn’t. Whether that was due to making lazy assumptions, a lack of working the phones, or a lack of thoroughness in strategic planning/cap management, it was an unbelievably bad mistake- a fireable offense.
Bottom line is that we’re in a much better place today, and the future looks bright. The young core is in place- now it’s time to start adding bigger fish.
PG coming aboard this summer will be a good next step. |
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Freddie Buckets Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 9131
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | ^Either of you care to share why? |
Just a gut feeling, since we haven't heard much news about PG still wanting to be a Laker. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Jsthornton7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2018 Posts: 231
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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LOL |
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