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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | There is an obvious disconnect between what the last 2 front offices and coaches saw in DLo, and what the fans see in DLo. |
Maybe. But it's also a FO that is impatient, wants to win NOW, even if we don't have the commitments of PG13/LBJ ever coming here.
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | I actually think Balls transition is going to be much, much smoother.
1) No BS
2) No KB
3) Team seems to have more of a clear identity, style of play, etc
4) Also I just think Balls skills translate more readily to the NBA....Ball isn't doing a lot of fancy passing in the half court he just makes the right read, and really it's his outlet of the ball on the break, plus his deep, deep three.
I fully expect Lonzo to be ROY and think he'll be one of the top from this class |
Realistically, no D-Lo will make his transition smoother too ...... No competition at point guard. The ball is literally in his hands.
It's going to be a media circus with or without LaVar. More so with LaVar, of course. |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67705
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | yammy1688 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Lakers are rebuilding. I like the trading of DLO. I didn't want him in the firsts place. He'll be replaced by De'Aaron Fox or Lonzo Ball. Both have huge upsides. Lopez is a expiring contract. They're going to have $21 million to play with when his contract is done. I like what Ervin is doing. Next season won't get a ship but it'll tell a lot about the teams direction. |
Can you explain more of this direction, please? Does it lead to a championship? I really want to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The BEST direction even possible is Lebron, PG, Cousins (taking paycuts) + ~20 million for rest of team. There's about a 1% chance this even happens. But say it does. My money is still on GSW to win.
Maybe Lonzo will turn into the 2nd coming of Magic. |
Just what Magic's doing. Shedding albatross contracts. Free cap space to get two max players and still have room to acquire quality FA's.
I've heard LeBron's wife wants to live full time in Los Angeles so he may be a possibility. Cousins is a head case. Great ball player but not very stable.
I say Lonzo and DeAaron are toss ups. Both have high upsides. Lets see which way Magic goes. |
You realize:
1. Lonzo/Fox are 19 year olds and will likely endure the same ups/downs DLO did, except Magic wants to win NOW, and they could also be another trade casualty for a win-now player.
2. we don't have anywhere near the cap space for 2 maxes in 2018. That would require getting $0 back for JC/Jules, and then getting rid of Deng. It took DLO to get rid of Moz, what do you think it'll take to get rid of Deng?
This has the hallmarks of 2015 going into 2016. Hopefully we actually get PG13. The 2nd max, Lebron? Good lord. |
Lonzo/Fox are gambles, so was Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird. All player coming into the league based on college play are gambles. Some pan out some don't.
CAP SPACE 2018 I'm not sure but if I read this correctly we have enough cap space to sign 2 max's and quality FA in 2018. Are you putting the expected cap increase to $101 million in your calculations? The chart says this team is currently under the cap.
Magic's doing what's necessary to get George. PG13 may be willing to take less because he wants to be here. Will he fit the Laker scheme?
Magic's putting in work. I'm going to wait and see.
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Lonzo/Fox are gambles, so was Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird. All player coming into the league based on college play are gambles. Some pan out some don't.
CAP SPACE 2018 I'm not sure but if I read this correctly we have enough cap space to sign 2 max's and quality FA in 2018. Are you putting the expected cap increase to $101 million in your calculations?
Magic's doing what's necessary to get George. PG13 may be willing to take less because he wants to be here. Will he fit the Laker scheme?
Magic's putting in work. I'm going to wait and see. |
We are nowhere near 2 max slots for 2018. Would take getting rid of JC/Jules (both) for $0 coming back, and stretching Deng or trading him out.
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Darth Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I just don't understand...
Russell isn't a very good basketball player...
He is a halfway decent jump shooter and can make decent reads from a triple threat position. Aside from this, he isn't a very good basketball player.
So to go through all of these great lengths to stick up for this kid is truly amazing... Comparing him to Kobe? Really? WTF. 
The kid could not become what two different leadership regimes gave him ample opportunity to become. It's very simple. So all of this crying mess about analytics and in his first three years Harden/Bird etc... blah blah blah doesn't mean jack ish. When describing Dwight Howard... Kareem said "potential has a shelf life". I believe this applies to Russell as well.
Two different leaderships begged this kid... They tried all they could. Heavy minutes to bench sub... 6th man to primary focus... Pep talks and hard coaching. The kid just didn't want to do it.
Damn... What else could the Lakers have done? This isn't a day care... This isn't the welfare. We don't have special programs to support people who don't want to work.
We have traded away better players than this...
Russell was given the opportunity to succeed Kobe Bryant...
Instead... He gave us a new hairstyle every other week.
His ace had to go.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | There is an obvious disconnect between what the last 2 front offices and coaches saw in DLo, and what the fans see in DLo. |
Maybe. But it's also a FO that is impatient, wants to win NOW, even if we don't have the commitments of PG13/LBJ ever coming here. |
This is what some people fail to realize. If this trade is completed next year, after receiving commitments from those two players, no one will complain about it. |
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67ShelbyGT
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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What makes the move even more of a head scratch-er is Luke just came out few days ago and said the homer line "cant win dont try" since Warriors gonna dominate for next 3-4 years.
Seems to be a disconnect. Making an unnecessary panic move to dump salary when it could've easily been done at ASG or next summer when those bad contracts would've been easier to move is the befuddling. Article hits those point well. Tagging JC with Mozgov wouldve been overpaying but a #2 pick? Geez.
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Pau Gasol's Beard
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
"Ice water in his veins" |
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Epic1971
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
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For so many pages, we have talked about how hard it was going to be to move Mozgov...a 32 year old center due to make 48 million dollars over the next 3 years. He's a slow, plodding center. That doesn't fly in today's NBA game. You were able to get rid of him. Let that soak in.
You got rid of Russell. I rooted for him just like most true Laker fans did. However, he did seem to be a little too cocky, somewhat uncoachable, not the best of team mates, and probably didn't work as hard as the past front office, or this front office would like.
So you get Lopez. Lopez will get you about 20 points a night, 6-8 rebounds, 2 blocks a night, and shoots at a high percentage. He's added the 3 to his game now as most Centers have. Also, he has an expiring contract. Secondly, you get a #1 pick (another asset).
I think a lot of people were overvaluing Russell. I hope he does well in Brooklyn, but I really hope this deal works out for the LAKERS.
We are so quick to judge here. You moved a somewhat untradeable contract/player.
You get a productive/expiring player back...but you shed a major albatross.
That is a good thing. Stay positive. |
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LakersNewEra
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Joined: 16 Apr 2014
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Good couple of posts on this last page. Agree 100 % with Darth Los Angeles and Epic1971.
The deal is lopsided in our favor. |
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OCWA
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| I was hoping the Laker would draft Russell and on draft day I was ecstatic with his selection. Unfortunately I have grown tired of Russell's lackadaisical attitude. He just didn't seem like he was serious about his profession. I must confess that I was happy when I heard they traded him. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| 67ShelbyGT wrote: | What makes the move even more of a head scratch-er is Luke just came out few days ago and said the homer line "cant win dont try" since Warriors gonna dominate for next 3-4 years.
Seems to be a disconnect. Making an unnecessary panic move to dump salary when it could've easily been done at ASG or next summer when those bad contracts would've been easier to move is the befuddling. Article hits those point well. Tagging JC with Mozgov wouldve been overpaying but a #2 pick? Geez. |
Luke may be the next casualty after next season if he doesn't get this team close or in the playoffs.
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
No official comment from the Lakers/NBA/Nets on it. Strange. |
My guess is that the Lakers are trying to turn this into a bigger trade and potentially move Lopez as part of that to get PG13. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
No official comment from the Lakers/NBA/Nets on it. Strange. |
My guess is that the Lakers are trying to turn this into a bigger trade and potentially move Lopez as part of that to get PG13. |
I kind of want Brook though on this 17/18 Lakers team. 
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Islandboy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
No official comment from the Lakers/NBA/Nets on it. Strange. |
NBA.com still shows the Nets with 27
http://www.nba.com/draft/board |
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acer77
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe David Stern returned from the grave to veto it. |
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JayLida
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | | foshowtime wrote: | I must admit this new talking point is starting to frustrate me.
Magic and Co. do something highly questionable and extremely excessive to resolve an issue. However, instead of blaming them, the talking point is to still try to shift the blame to Jim and Mitch.
To me, this is like someone at work giving you a papercut, and you deciding to amputate your arm. Then, placing all of the blame on the papercut.
While there are no arguments that the Moz/Deng K's are bad; the former F.O. had left this F.O. in a somewhat nice position.
Lots of nice young players (including what I viewed as two really good assets); a number 2 pick; and we were under the cap with room for one Max contract.
All of a sudden, we have lost one of our at least top 2 assets or as some would argue our top asset. This was done to accomplish a salary dump. Barring some information that we dont know or any injury, this was an asset that could always be used to do a salary dump.
Given the fact that we had room for 1 max contract, there was no reason to even panic and move the contract at this time.
These are Horrible Moves by this GM and F.O.; but everyone is trying to deflect and blame the old F.O. because this F.O. made irrational and excessive moves.
I feel that we worked hard for five-six years and saved our money; but we are getting drunk one night in Vegas and are about to blow it all. |
Agree 100%.
I was one of Jim Buss's harshest critics... but Magic Johnson OWNS this trade one way or another. If this was the first necessary step toward a bigger, winning transformation of the Lakers into a winning squad... Magic should get all the credit.
If its the prelude to an incompetent series of moves that cripples the Lakers future... Magic gets all the blame.
I think most people would agree, the move... at this time... was totally unnecessary. They could have given DLO a 3rd year (as many great players blossomed in their 3rd year) and then kept or trade him (at a much higher value).
No way should a losing team throw away their most valuable asset without a guarantee of improving the team. Last I checked...we got cap space. |
There seems to be a major split with the fan base. However I am right down the middle. The former FO did leave some nice assets however I am having a hard time rationalizing one against the other because Deng/ Moz contracts are so terrible that they pretty much cancel out the nice assets the former FO left behind.
Magic and Rob clearly made the decision to use one of those assets to get from under Moz's terrible contract. This decision had to be made now rather then later.
Blaming the old FO is what it is. You can't move forward without acknowledging the old FO mistakes and correcting them however you can.
As far as D-LO I am one who believed in D-LO's B-Ball abilities however D-LO in my opinion was traded more so for his locker room issues, his lack of improvement the Lakers wanted to see from him (leadership qualities) and the fact that Lonzo is more inline with the leader Magic, Rob and Luke feel this team needs to be successful.
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Lakerfan#37
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
I think nance said he was kind of indifferent. Not sad, but pretty sure he wasn't all too happy about it. |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Islandboy wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | What have DLO's comments about the trade been?
Is he happy, sad, indifferent?
I don't have Twitter.... |
No official comment from the Lakers/NBA/Nets on it. Strange. |
NBA.com still shows the Nets with 27
http://www.nba.com/draft/board |
I just noticed the same thing. It will probably be announced tonight during the draft.
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DLaker
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Here is another insight as to why the Lakers needed to act fast, if they want more cap space next year.
Players with expiring contract this season 2017
Player option (Doubt we could flip Moz/DLo with this players)
C Paul 24M
K Durant 28M
D Wade 24M
B Griffin 21M
G Hayward 16M
Players Expiring
B Lopez 22M - Best trade with a Russian owner willing to get Moz
D Cousin 16M - Doubtful
G Monroe 17M - Possible, but will Bucks want Moz. I rather have Lopez
T Parker 15M - Doubtful
R Rondo 13M - Doubtful Bulls wants Moz
A Affalo 12M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
N Pekovic 11M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
D Favor 12M - Doubtful
So for those people who is against this trade, please feel free to offer a suggestion as to how we can get rid of Moz salary and also get us cap space next year. We are so pissed we let Dlo go, but he has not establish himself yet in the NBA as a player that will be a future Allstar. If the FO does not act fast, u think LG will be complaining again if another team got Lopez expiring and have the cap space instead next year. I dont get the criticism of the FO being incompetent. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | Here is another insight as to why the Lakers needed to act fast, if they want more cap space next year.
Players with expiring contract this season 2017
Player option (Doubt we could flip Moz/DLo with this players)
C Paul 24M
K Durant 28M
D Wade 24M
B Griffin 21M
G Hayward 16M
Players Expiring
B Lopez 22M - Best trade with a Russian owner willing to get Moz
D Cousin 16M - Doubtful
G Monroe 17M - Possible, but will Bucks want Moz. I rather have Lopez
T Parker 15M - Doubtful
R Rondo 13M - Doubtful Bulls wants Moz
A Affalo 12M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
N Pekovic 11M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
D Favor 12M - Doubtful
So for those people who is against this trade, please feel free to offer a suggestion as to how we can get rid of Moz salary and also get us cap space next year. We are so pissed we let Dlo go, but he has not establish himself yet in the NBA as a player that will be a future Allstar. If the FO does not act fast, u think LG will be complaining again if another team got Lopez expiring and have the cap space instead next year. I dont get the criticism of the FO being incompetent. |
Who said we need to do it this year?
There are teams which can just absorb bad contracts without giving any player to us. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Prospect evaluation is very subjective. All we can say is the previous FO saw something on Russell that the current FO doesn't agree. Clearly, Magic's choice was Okafor at that time, so I won't give much credit about his prospect evaluation . |
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | Prospect evaluation is very subjective. All we can say is the previous FO saw something on Russell that the current FO doesn't agree. Clearly, Magic's choice was Okafor at that time, so I won't give much credit about his prospect evaluation . |
If I remember Okafor was the choice before the workouts when it was reported he struggled badly against lesser talent.
Byron Scott was calling Russell the second coming of Magic Johnson after watching his workout. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DLaker wrote: | Here is another insight as to why the Lakers needed to act fast, if they want more cap space next year.
Players with expiring contract this season 2017
Player option (Doubt we could flip Moz/DLo with this players)
C Paul 24M
K Durant 28M
D Wade 24M
B Griffin 21M
G Hayward 16M
Players Expiring
B Lopez 22M - Best trade with a Russian owner willing to get Moz
D Cousin 16M - Doubtful
G Monroe 17M - Possible, but will Bucks want Moz. I rather have Lopez
T Parker 15M - Doubtful
R Rondo 13M - Doubtful Bulls wants Moz
A Affalo 12M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
N Pekovic 11M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
D Favor 12M - Doubtful
So for those people who is against this trade, please feel free to offer a suggestion as to how we can get rid of Moz salary and also get us cap space next year. We are so pissed we let Dlo go, but he has not establish himself yet in the NBA as a player that will be a future Allstar. If the FO does not act fast, u think LG will be complaining again if another team got Lopez expiring and have the cap space instead next year. I dont get the criticism of the FO being incompetent. |
Great analysis! |
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YSong
Star Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | DLaker wrote: | Here is another insight as to why the Lakers needed to act fast, if they want more cap space next year.
Players with expiring contract this season 2017
Player option (Doubt we could flip Moz/DLo with this players)
C Paul 24M
K Durant 28M
D Wade 24M
B Griffin 21M
G Hayward 16M
Players Expiring
B Lopez 22M - Best trade with a Russian owner willing to get Moz
D Cousin 16M - Doubtful
G Monroe 17M - Possible, but will Bucks want Moz. I rather have Lopez
T Parker 15M - Doubtful
R Rondo 13M - Doubtful Bulls wants Moz
A Affalo 12M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
N Pekovic 11M - too low a salary and need to take on salary
D Favor 12M - Doubtful
So for those people who is against this trade, please feel free to offer a suggestion as to how we can get rid of Moz salary and also get us cap space next year. We are so pissed we let Dlo go, but he has not establish himself yet in the NBA as a player that will be a future Allstar. If the FO does not act fast, u think LG will be complaining again if another team got Lopez expiring and have the cap space instead next year. I dont get the criticism of the FO being incompetent. |
Who said we need to do it this year?
There are teams which can just absorb bad contracts without giving any player to us. |
I don't think this is true. If you wait and approach a team to absorb your salary then they have all the leverage and want even more.
I think Magic and Rob made the right decision plus Lopez is an excellent player and can contribute! |
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