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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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 Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | As GT and Darius Soriano correctly said in their podcast, cast aside how you feel personally about DLO. Was this a good transaction?
This is where I'm still uncomfortable. If we agree that DLO needed to be traded, could we do better if we had waited? That's my lingering question about this.
Simply put, we acted like the guy who buys the car on unfavorable terms b/c the dealership is about to close for the night.
Come back the next day or a month later on better terms! |
So I'm making sure that the numbers are correct, but I'm actually looking into this question right now. So far, it looks like trading Russell for a future pick (whatever you could get, without Mozgov attached) and stretching Mozgov would've been a better play than the salary dump. Not 100% confident but it's looking that way. |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7937
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | As GT and Darius Soriano correctly said in their podcast, cast aside how you feel personally about DLO. Was this a good transaction?
This is where I'm still uncomfortable. If we agree that DLO needed to be traded, could we do better if we had waited? That's my lingering question about this.
Simply put, we acted like the guy who buys the car on unfavorable terms b/c the dealership is about to close for the night.
Come back the next day or a month later on better terms! |
So I'm making sure that the numbers are correct, but I'm actually looking into this question right now. So far, it looks like trading Russell for a future pick (whatever you could get, without Mozgov attached) and stretching Mozgov would've been a better play than the salary dump. Not 100% confident but it's looking that way. |
I'm sure they would have traded him if something better was on thre table.
Key words from Magic. Players have to want to play with him.
Obviously Magic has the ear of more than a few players and agents and so does Rob. Must have been a lot of negative feedback. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| PG13 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | As GT and Darius Soriano correctly said in their podcast, cast aside how you feel personally about DLO. Was this a good transaction?
This is where I'm still uncomfortable. If we agree that DLO needed to be traded, could we do better if we had waited? That's my lingering question about this.
Simply put, we acted like the guy who buys the car on unfavorable terms b/c the dealership is about to close for the night.
Come back the next day or a month later on better terms! |
So I'm making sure that the numbers are correct, but I'm actually looking into this question right now. So far, it looks like trading Russell for a future pick (whatever you could get, without Mozgov attached) and stretching Mozgov would've been a better play than the salary dump. Not 100% confident but it's looking that way. |
I'm sure they would have traded him if something better was on thre table.
Key words from Magic. Players have to want to play with him.
Obviously Magic has the ear of more than a few players and agents and so does Rob. Must have been a lot of negative feedback. |
They got #27 while dumping Mozgov. Of course if they traded Russell without Mozgov attached, they'd get something better. That's just common sense. |
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Rivershow
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | Russell trade approval rating now exactly the same as Trump's-- 39%. |
Both need to be MUCH lower. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Recent reports seem to indicate that not only was Russell not valued by other lottery teams, but most of the league doesn't value Randle or Clarkson. Couple that with the fact that Lopez was THE best expiring contract to trade for, and this trade looks better and better. |
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:39 am Post subject: |
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After reading Magic's comments on the trade I'm OK with it now even if it doesn't yield PG13 this year. I believe his comments only scratched the surface of what he really thought of Dlo.
Despite what I appreciated about D'Angelo's talent, a change of culture is needed. I look at this trade now as a move that was similar to the Warriors taking a huge risk trading a very talented player in Monta Ellis for an often injured but unselfish player in Andrew Bogut.
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richmorgan12
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| PG13 wrote: |
Obviously Magic has the ear of more than a few players and agents and so does Rob. Must have been a lot of negative feedback. |
Or not. Anyone can say anything they want, regardless of whether it's true. |
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richmorgan12
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Recent reports seem to indicate that not only was Russell not valued by other lottery teams, but most of the league doesn't value Randle or Clarkson. Couple that with the fact that Lopez was THE best expiring contract to trade for, and this trade looks better and better. |
If Russell plays well in Brooklyn and the Lakers don't sign anyone significant next year and/or don't play well, it's going to look pretty stupid. |
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kobetimeeverytime
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| richmorgan12 wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Recent reports seem to indicate that not only was Russell not valued by other lottery teams, but most of the league doesn't value Randle or Clarkson. Couple that with the fact that Lopez was THE best expiring contract to trade for, and this trade looks better and better. |
If Russell plays well in Brooklyn and the Lakers don't sign anyone significant next year and/or don't play well, it's going to look pretty stupid. |
agreed, i didn't understand the urgency of the trade if Russell's value was low then that's even less reason to pull the trigger |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. It doesn't matter what kind of player he develops into whether he is a good starter or a bench player. Magic just doesn't want Russell to be on this team. You rarely see an organisation fire sale a top 5 pick before contract extension. Even if he doesn't have the quality to be a leader, he might still be a good 2nd or 3rd option next to Ingram and Ball. |
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kobe_4_mvp
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Magic and Rob put so much emphasis on character and meeting his family. Remember d'angelo's dad got arrested for drugs not too long after he was drafted? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: |
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I have to trust our new leadership and hope the max 2 plan works out.
It's just that it's so dependent now on hope and luck.
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Math
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
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Math
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
Yeah, none of that matters if Magic had it in his head that he had to go.
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: |
That is the best part, you got the best player in the trade, got rid of one of the worst contracts ever in the process and have the option to let the best player of the trade go if you can sign a player that is even better than him.
Win-win situation. |
I honestly don't understand how anyone could be upset with the deal.
For those that say "they should have waited" that assumes the Nets would have been willing to play footsie in the future, there was no guarantee of that and interest around the league in our bad contracts and DLO was scant at best.
The opportunity presented itself, they acted. That is what bold and forward thinking NBA Front Offices do as opposed to hiding in their offices hoping for a miracle.
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danzag
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | That is what bold and forward thinking NBA Front Offices do as opposed to hiding in their offices hoping for a miracle. |
"2 max FA next year" |
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LongTimeLurk
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
Yeah, none of that matters if Magic had it in his head that he had to go. |
Basically Magic and likely the rest of the organization wanted it to be 100% clear to everyone that this team will be built around Lonzo Ball and Luke's system. Keeping DLo on the team who really saw himself as the face of the franchise would eventually create tension and confusion especially with both essentially being lead guards. So they decided it wasn't worth it to even allow the potential problems to develope, so they moved DLo and also took the opportunity to dump Moz plus get some additional assets.
We'll likely be having this exact same debate when they trade Julius for less than fans think he's worth. And just like the DLo trade our gripes won't matter or change anything because Magic and the FO have their own plan which they will certainly implement whether we fully understand or accept their logic or not. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | nash wrote: |
That is the best part, you got the best player in the trade, got rid of one of the worst contracts ever in the process and have the option to let the best player of the trade go if you can sign a player that is even better than him.
Win-win situation. |
I honestly don't understand how anyone could be upset with the deal.
For those that say "they should have waited" that assumes the Nets would have been willing to play footsie in the future, there was no guarantee of that and interest around the league in our bad contracts and DLO was scant at best.
The opportunity presented itself, they acted. That is what bold and forward thinking NBA Front Offices do as opposed to hiding in their offices hoping for a miracle. |
You're right, there is no guarantee. That's why this is still debatable.
But if you think logically, it is still more likely that Nets will accept this offer next year if not for less asset given the reasons many of us have explained. (less year on Moz contract and Russell plays better next to Ball).
I can use last year as an example. Jim/Mitch made a premature move to give Deng/Moz the long contract. If they had the patience to wait, we might have Bogut and Barnes on our team instead. At least I could understand why they were desperate because who knew how long would KD take to make a decision. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| LongTimeLurk wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
Yeah, none of that matters if Magic had it in his head that he had to go. |
Basically Magic and likely the rest of the organization wanted it to be 100% clear to everyone that this team will be built around Lonzo Ball and Luke's system. Keeping DLo on the team who really saw himself as the face of the franchise would eventually create tension and confusion especially with both essentially being lead guards. So they decided it wasn't worth it to even allow the potential problems to develope, so they moved DLo and also took the opportunity to dump Moz plus get some additional assets.
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And you don't think this is a premature move given that Ball hasn't played any single game in the NBA? Or maybe this can actually motivate both of them to be better players? GT has explained how well they complement each other offensively but this FO doesn't even want to try.
I mean, you could be right. And We would never find out what really goes in Magic's mind. But I just can't find any solid reason to justify giving up on Russell this soon is right. |
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Math
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Joined: 22 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | LongTimeLurk wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
Yeah, none of that matters if Magic had it in his head that he had to go. |
Basically Magic and likely the rest of the organization wanted it to be 100% clear to everyone that this team will be built around Lonzo Ball and Luke's system. Keeping DLo on the team who really saw himself as the face of the franchise would eventually create tension and confusion especially with both essentially being lead guards. So they decided it wasn't worth it to even allow the potential problems to develope, so they moved DLo and also took the opportunity to dump Moz plus get some additional assets.
|
And you don't think this is a premature move given that Ball hasn't played any single game in the NBA? Or maybe this can actually motivate both of them to be better players? GT has explained how well they complement each other offensively but this FO doesn't even want to try.
I mean, you could be right. And We would never find out what really goes in Magic's mind. But I just can't find any solid reason to justify giving up on Russell this soon is right. |
I actually kind of agree with both of you. I think LTL has the logic right. And I think LF8 has the reason right.
I think that is what Magic was thinking and I also think it might have been premature to bet so much on a 19 year old who's never played a game in the NBA.
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lakerMark
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Magic, Pelinka, Luke, and the same staff that drafted D'lo feel Ball will be special. In Kobe's final year even Jerry West said the Lakers did not have a franchise player on the team. Since then in comes Ingram and Ball. Byron Scott maybe disliked and even I thought he did a horrible job but if D'lo was as good as Kyrie or Chris Paul he would have noticed. D'lo has a long ways to go before he will be considered an all star there are too many guards ahead of him in the east and west Kyrie, Wall, Lowry, Thomas, Walker, Paul, Curry, Lillard, Booker, Harden, Westbrook come on people the list goes on and on so if you are not in the top 15 in your position and get traded for an all star level center, a good role player, and 20 million in cap space that is a good deal even if you improve. I do not care if we do not get PG 13 as long as we do not blow our cap space on the likes of a Deng or Moz in the next 2 - 3 years. |
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M2K
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| LongTimeLurk wrote: |
Basically Magic and likely the rest of the organization wanted it to be 100% clear to everyone that this team will be built around Lonzo Ball and Luke's system. Keeping DLo on the team who really saw himself as the face of the franchise would eventually create tension and confusion especially with both essentially being lead guards. So they decided it wasn't worth it to even allow the potential problems to develope, so they moved DLo and also took the opportunity to dump Moz plus get some additional assets. |
Yeah, why have competition and find out who the best player is for the team's future? No... just let Magic pick and choose instead of letting it play out on the court.
Stupid, stupid, stupid AND a narcissistic, ego-driven move by Magic.
Like Jordan's Kwame Brown pick... Magic's position in the FO will be forever linked to the DLO trade and Lonzo pick... one way or the other.
Hope, for the team's sake, Magic wins this argument whether because he really knew better or pure luck or whatever the hell comes our way in re-creating this team.
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M2K
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: |
And you don't think this is a premature move given that Ball hasn't played any single game in the NBA? Or maybe this can actually motivate both of them to be better players? GT has explained how well they complement each other offensively but this FO doesn't even want to try. |
Winner by knockout.
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A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| LongTimeLurk wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | Math wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | I think there's something about Russell that Magic doesn't like. |
Magic basically said as much yesterday. |
I think there's more to that. Even if he is not a leader, he can still be a good 2nd or 3rd option. In regards to the good teammate part, was Kobe well-liked among the teammates when Kobe was young? |
Yeah, none of that matters if Magic had it in his head that he had to go. |
Basically Magic and likely the rest of the organization wanted it to be 100% clear to everyone that this team will be built around Lonzo Ball and Luke's system. Keeping DLo on the team who really saw himself as the face of the franchise would eventually create tension and confusion especially with both essentially being lead guards. So they decided it wasn't worth it to even allow the potential problems to develope, so they moved DLo and also took the opportunity to dump Moz plus get some additional assets.
We'll likely be having this exact same debate when they trade Julius for less than fans think he's worth. And just like the DLo trade our gripes won't matter or change anything because Magic and the FO have their own plan which they will certainly implement whether we fully understand or accept their logic or not. |
Would you have been fine with the Lakers trading Kobe for the same reasons like Phil wanted to once he got here because Shaq was there? Just going by the logic of that decision.
There's nothing wrong with having two alpha personalities that want to be the guy, if anything that's the kind of thing you want. And a lot of teams would love that problem.
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