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KindCrippler2000
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | How many 20 year olds with a minutes restriction need PRP injections for their bad knees? |
This and how Dlo apparently alienated even Luke are the only hints I'm clinging to to try to be okay with this trade. On the surface, I think dumping Dlo to get rid of Moz and take on Lopez/27 is a horrific move. Lopez is a very good offensive player, but he's slow as hell on defense, which is not something we need as one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. |
Really there's only one guess I've seen on this thread that makes any sense to me, and that is that Russell's knees are more worrisome than the Laker FO would have wanted to let on in public. PRP at age 20 is unusual, and DLO was touch and go with the knees for a while even after he came back. A real issue there would kill value pretty quickly. It's pretty hard for me to match up alienating coaches with the number of times I saw him hanging around coaches asking for advice. Unless he had some weird mental thing going where he couldn't internalize what they said it just doesn't make sense.
As for the other guesses people put out there I don't buy the Locker room cancer, poor work ethic, unwilling to take instruction. We might see that crap come out after the fact if the FO wants to put lipstick on this move, but DLO spent plenty of time in the gym, had respectable showings on the leaderboards whenever someone would publish a 'number of workouts' or 'training camp drill wins' board, he was always talking to coaches, and it appeared, based on interaction with his teammates, that the rest of this Laker squad, particularly the young core he was a part of, liked DLO and wanted him to succeed.
But you can't build a foundation on glass knees. If that was a factor in this trade, then perhaps the Lopez trade would make sense. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: |
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apparently yes. Russell is that guy who got traded for Brook Lopez... at least it wasn't for Robin. lol
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Reports also saying that DLO was always attached to getting rid of Moz. So yeah, no way to know what DLO himself would have fetched. But who else on this team would get you back Brook (a 20ppg expiring deal) and a pick, while dumping Moz? Obviously not Ingram and #2.
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RG73
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Capt.Skyhook wrote: |
Halfway through Paul's rookie season the entire league knew he was going to be a franchise player. No one thought that way about DLo then and no one thinks that way about him now.
If the Lakers had a young Chris Paul, they would be drafting Josh Jackson on Thursday. |
Did they? His team lost a lot of games to end the season, he had a streak of single digit scoring games later in the season, etc. He won ROY because he was in a relatively weak draft class and there wasn't exactly any competition for his, what, 16 and 7? That all said, Byron did allow him 36+ mpg as a rookie. One guy was allowed to develop, while the other guy was essentially bullied for his entire rookie season by his coach.
I'm by no means saying DLO has the ceiling of CP3. But the team did not exactly foster his development, and thus did not do themselves any favors in terms of his trade value. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | Capt.Skyhook wrote: |
Halfway through Paul's rookie season the entire league knew he was going to be a franchise player. No one thought that way about DLo then and no one thinks that way about him now.
If the Lakers had a young Chris Paul, they would be drafting Josh Jackson on Thursday. |
Did they? His team lost a lot of games to end the season, he had a streak of single digit scoring games later in the season, etc. He won ROY because he was in a relatively weak draft class and there wasn't exactly any competition for his, what, 16 and 7? That all said, Byron did allow him 36+ mpg as a rookie. One guy was allowed to develop, while the other guy was essentially bullied for his entire rookie season by his coach.
I'm by no means saying DLO has the ceiling of CP3. But the team did not exactly foster his development, and thus did not do themselves any favors in terms of his trade value. |
lol bullied?
it was more like CP3 was coachable, Russell was a know-it-all. let's not get the facts get in the way.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Laker_Town
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Im curious, but has someone like LArryCoon or Emplay mentioned anything about how the organization viewed DLO? |
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PDX_LAKERFAN
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| They didn't like Russell because, in the NBA cheating on wives, girlfriends and anything else is part of the package. With Russell here, there is always a high chance that he would rat them all out. lol |
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vicman
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe because he had a horrible attitude wasn't ever focused. Made stupid plays all the time and didn't give 100% effort |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | | Im curious, but has someone like LArryCoon or Emplay mentioned anything about how the organization viewed DLO? |
Would be nice if someone who actually has a chance of knowing what was going on would chime in. Amateur hour with all the guesses in this thread. |
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JH from Hemet
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I still wonder if the lakers had serious concerns about his knees......
So young to be missing time for that extremity |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Kobe was the 2nd best player on a championship team at age 21. So the comparisons are a little tough for me to tolerate.
MozDeng sat the end of the season when the tank was in overdrive. Also our starting 5 missed a lot of games against playoff competition early in the season. Still think they were our best lineup. Just think the +/- was a little inflated.
And lets be honest, I don't care about keeping together the best lineup on the 3rd worst team in the league.
What by next year, maybe we could've been 5th worst if we kept things together? 
We don't have a lotto pick to tank for next year (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong).
Magic wasn't brought in to stay pat and let the young guys develop.
If that was the goal, Jim and Mitch would still be here.
I'm rooting for DLo. He really grew on me. Mozgod I don't really give two craps about.
Would've liked to see DLo and Lonzo together. But I'm happy to get out from under Mozgods contract. If you're gonna pay a guy the 2nd most money on the team, you should at least be comfortable enough to play him in the 4th.
Good luck DLO. Wish you a successful career in BKN.
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Truck Turner
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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It's worth noting that Russell himself even noted at times his lack of focus, aggressiveness, and lackadaisical attitude was something he needed to improve on.
He's cite those things as the reason for his struggles after having a great game, then two games later would go right back to doing those things. |
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Tick
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: Re: why didn't the FO and coaching staff like D'angelo? |
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| kobetimeeverytime wrote: | this is something I just never understood. there's a huge disconnect between how the fans view him and how the FO/coaching staff sees him
why? |
Because for the most part us fans tend to play checkers, while the FO is forced to play chess. The Lakers have 2 crippling contracts in Moz and Deng. They need to get rid of both those contracts, the sooner the better. Assuming they draft Ball, they don't lose anything personnel wise by moving Russell if it means they get to dump Mozgov's contract. Russell loses market value the very second the Lakers draft Ball. The act of drafting Ball is an indictment against Russell. So it's better to move D'Lo now if it means we get rid of a horrible contract.
So it may not be that the FO dislikes Russell, it could very well be that they dislike Mozgov's contract enough to offer Russell. |
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Hero Ball
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: |
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That was sad man, I can make no fun of our starting PG doing it. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Truck Turner wrote: | It's worth noting that Russell himself even noted at times his lack of focus, aggressiveness, and lackadaisical attitude was something he needed to improve on.
He's cite those things as the reason for his struggles after having a great game, then two games later would go right back to doing those things. |
He actually said this after a game:
"Byron couldn't get through to me last season, and Luke can't get through to me this season."
Reporter: "Why is that?"
"I don't know."
He was an odd duck.
Last edited by greenfrog on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:36 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Nnamdi21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Laker Junkie wrote: | Magic is a smooth operator politically and has an amazing amount of goodwill in the media.
He went on national television and openly lobbied for someone's existing job. Absolutely no backlash.
He went and traded a #2 pick prematurely by one year, and for cap space only. Absolutely no backlash.
Unreal. |
He can do no wrong. All of a sudden, DLO was a cancer LOL...he was our best player in the 2nd half of last year. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Nnamdi21 wrote: | | All of a sudden, DLO was a cancer LOL...he was our best player in the 2nd half of last year. |
It wasn't all of a sudden. Reporters were hinting at it for the entirety of his laker career, including LG's eric pincus
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Nnamdi21
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Nnamdi21 wrote: | | All of a sudden, DLO was a cancer LOL...he was our best player in the 2nd half of last year. |
It wasn't all of a sudden. Reporters were hinting at it for the entirety of his laker career, including LG's eric pincus |
Eric Pincus was getting information from Byron Scott. Byron didn't like him in year 1. Well nobody liked Byron either. Man Up fell on def ears for all the young players. Then Walton was raving about his dedication and training early in the year. He got hurt, the team struggled a bit and it took him a while to get back into his groove.
Magic and Byron are close, you don't think Magic already had it in for DLO? I get it if he had knee issues and they were concerned but to say he was a headcase is just an excuse. Cousins? now that's a headcase. |
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loki05
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| LakerEric wrote: | Found this on Reddit:
Zach Lowe and Ramona Shelburne on D'angelo Russell, The Lowe Post Podcast 21 Mar 17 (3 months ago to boot)
Some background: Shelburne is a legitimate source for the Lakers, who has legit insider knowledge on the front office. Zach Lowe is one of if not the best sportswriters of the NBA, and is very objective. I would argue that he has had a very fair, perhaps optimistic view towards the Lakers. In addition, look at the date: March 21st, 2017. This was 3 months ago.
(On D'angelo Russell)
Lowe: Tell me what the Lakers think about D'angelo Russell
Shelburne:It's interesting . . . you don't need me to show any mock drafts to tell you who the top players in this draft are, they're all point guards. They're trying to evaluate how D'angelo would play with them.
L: lately, the last month, he just doesn't look athletic, the finishing has always been bad, some of the games he doesn't have lift and bounce
S: he also had some knee injuries this year
L: the main reason he's so polarizing is because of the knee injuries, both this year and in the past. people think if he doesn't get enough lift, he's gonna have problems
S: they're still trying to figure out how to use him
L: I didn't get the bring off the bench thing I thought that was weird, I don't know if that was sending a message thing, or lackadaisical play
S: I think it's a little both. He also hasn't really been elevating. Turnovers are a symptom of trying too hard, or lackadaisical play . . . in his case some of it is a little both. But if you're not elevating your teammates, making them better while running this system, you gotta sit out.
L: I didn't understand it if its not a message
The writing has been on the wall. Notice how Shelburne gives an ambiguous answer to the Lakers' opinion on Russell: "It's interesting." She then talks about the upcoming draft, even name dropping Lonzo Ball. She knew that the Lakers did not believe in Russell. If you have a (bleep) team, you believe in your best player and let him run wild. Instead, the Lakers made him go on-ball to off-ball, brought him off the bench, etc. They were more concerned about his fit with future teammates. Also, there was clearly something wrong with him, whether it's his injuries or personality issues. I was pissed about the trade yesterday, but the more I think about it, it might have been good to get rid of D'lo. There's a reason why all those lottery teams passed on trading for him, there's a reason why we were forced to always defend him, there's a reason why there were so many trade rumors (that we dismissed as stupid) surrounding him over the past years.
TLDR: We don't know as much as we think
Some of the Lakers' front office's opinions on other players:
(Zubac)
Shelburne: [The Lakers] really like him! They want to see what he can be
(Randle)
Lowe: I am going to die on the Julius Randle hill . . . [he's] a good basketball player, and I want him on my team
Shelburne: I think he's been a surprise for [the Lakers] this year . . . (when he plays poorly) people assume it's laziness, but it's not, it's confidence. |
GOLD right here. Thank you for this. Look guys, its over. |
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yammy1688
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| vicman wrote: | | Maybe because he had a horrible attitude wasn't ever focused. Made stupid plays all the time and didn't give 100% effort |
And yet, till put up good numbers. Imagine if he was actually nurtured under NOT byron scott.
The only possible explanations:
1) glass knees
2) incorrigable personal issues
3) magic is dumb
I'm leaning towards 3 at the moment, due to how this played out (selling low). Time will tell. |
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yammy1688
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: Re: why didn't the FO and coaching staff like D'angelo? |
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Byron has zero credibility as a coach. Why should ANYONE listen to him regarding basketball?
D'lo is the kind of guy, that PRETENDS he' aloof. He' a kid still finding his way.
Dude works on his game and it's obvious.
| splashmtn wrote: | | kobetimeeverytime wrote: | this is something I just never understood. there's a huge disconnect between how the fans view him and how the FO/coaching staff sees him
why? |
Fans see what they want to see when they like a player. very rarely will you here a fan be honest about a player they also like. usually its the fans who dont like the players that go in hard on the player, and the others come to the defense of the player. most people wont tell both sides of the equation. there's some good about him and some bad.
The only person laker fans should've listened to was Byron Scott in regards to DLO. the reason why is that he was the reason we drafted DLO. BYRON wanted DLO to be drafted. He's the one that saw his elite passing ability and thought the kid could be something special.
But that same scott who more or less put his butt on the line for having the FO draft DLO, also told us that DLO use to get to practice like 10 mins before it started and how that would drive scott crazy.
Now some are thinking. well thats early or on time, whats the problem?
THe problem is, DLO was telling people and acting like he was ready to become the MAN. but scott and other players that played with legends(scott played with magic, kareem, james, and kobe.) SO scott knows what it looks like when the bright lights go off and its all about the work. Those guys come into practice hours earlier and leave hours later.
If that aint you. You wont be great. And thats fine. but you can't be a #2 pick for the lakers then. its that simple. dont talk the talk unless you're ready to walk the walk.
Notice when magic came in, he was saying the same stuff...he had to set fitness standards. Telling guys that hey they dont have to workout with kobe. but we will know who does and who doesnt. basically saying, if you want to be great and you're not taking up a greats gesture to work out with him. then you aint ready to be next level great. you may end up being a nice shooter/scorer. that aint a superstar. This is why DLO had to go. |
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Truck Turner
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Nnamdi21 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Nnamdi21 wrote: | | All of a sudden, DLO was a cancer LOL...he was our best player in the 2nd half of last year. |
It wasn't all of a sudden. Reporters were hinting at it for the entirety of his laker career, including LG's eric pincus |
Eric Pincus was getting information from Byron Scott. Byron didn't like him in year 1. Well nobody liked Byron either. Man Up fell on def ears for all the young players. Then Walton was raving about his dedication and training early in the year. He got hurt, the team struggled a bit and it took him a while to get back into his groove.
Magic and Byron are close, you don't think Magic already had it in for DLO? I get it if he had knee issues and they were concerned but to say he was a headcase is just an excuse. Cousins? now that's a headcase. |
Luke had some of the SAME critiques of D'Lo. You can't just blame it all on Byron anymore.
Luke also benched D'Lo for a while just like Byron did. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Reports also saying that DLO was always attached to getting rid of Moz. So yeah, no way to know what DLO himself would have fetched. But who else on this team would get you back Brook (a 20ppg expiring deal) and a pick, while dumping Moz? Obviously not Ingram and #2. |
Where are those reports from? |
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