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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | hype wrote: | kobe_4_mvp wrote: | Dr. Laker wrote: | Kuz had a rep as a solid defender in college. Maybe our system was bad?
Hopefully, he will have a monster year on both ends of the court. |
not really. it was the same as it is now. inconsistent, low awareness, and lacking physicality. |
Yeah, his awareness on the defensive end is just brutally awful at times I have noticed watching replays. I don't have confidence he will ever be a plus on the defensive end but he still has the ability to at least not be a complete liability like he was at times last season if he stays engaged and focused which is all we really need from him, especially if he plays that 6th man role. |
Is awareness even something that can be fixed? If he locked himself in a room with Kobe and studied film obsessively can he become at least an average defender? His feet seem a lot heavier on the defensive end, but he's quick and decisive on the offensive end. Seems like it's mental to me. |
There’s a lot of different types of athleticism ; and a lot of it is based in the hips - lateral difference is a lot to do with hip fluidity and dexterity. Also some players lack of hip fluidity really shows itself in a stance, biomechanically moving laterally in a stance is just awkward for some guys.
Kuz has solid hips and feet for 6’9.5, he’s just got terrible technique hopping instead of sliding...having to pick both feet up laterally like you’re tap dancing can make a tall guy look like they have slow, awkward feet |
That is actually fascinating. My coaches when I was younger used to get on me about sliding my feet in a stance, but I always felt like I was a lot slower defending that way. They'd make me do laps around the court sliding laterally which helped some. I always marvel at defenders who seem to slide sideways effortlessly like they're on ice. I was never comfortable with it, but I made up for it by having long arms and playing against scrubs . I guess some people just don't have the biomechanics for it. |
yep.. so many different types of athleticism. generally long legs have issues keeping bend naturally and subsequently sliding. but a good portion of the issue is usually technique too I think |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39324
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
I disagree, he needs to get better on both ends to live up to all the praise he has been getting his first 2 seasons. I hope he does. I remember last season, teams were going right at him with isolation which shows just how much of a liability he was. On the offense he was an inefficient scorer who didn't do much else. I do like the fact that he runs the floor and shows good movement off the ball. He has to improve to become a plus player in my opinion. He has to improve A LOT to become a starter. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
I disagree, he needs to get better on both ends to live up to all the praise he has been getting his first 2 seasons. |
Before I read any further When was there ever defensive hype around him? _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
Stop the press!!! Lonzo plays on one end he’s horrible on offense but I don’t judge him by that. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Super Mega Team Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 3877
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
He doesn't have spin moves or a running hook off the dribble? Go watch again. _________________ Formerly OC Lakerfan |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Super Mega Team wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
He doesn't have spin moves or a running hook off the dribble? Go watch again. |
Eye test tells you differently than the numbers. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
Yeah, it's ridiculous how much hate Kuz gets. For some reason his defensive weakness is disproportionately highlighted by LG compared to all the positives he has. Even though he made strides in that area throughout the season. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | Super Mega Team wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
He doesn't have spin moves or a running hook off the dribble? Go watch again. |
Eye test tells you differently than the numbers. |
Go get your eyes checked |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:49 am Post subject: |
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If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:46 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
Doubt it. Tatum may be overhyped but he delivered in the playoffs in his rookie year. |
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kobe_4_mvp Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 3798
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:57 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
Yeah, it's ridiculous how much hate Kuz gets. For some reason his defensive weakness is disproportionately highlighted by LG compared to all the positives he has. Even though he made strides in that area throughout the season. |
please explain. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Vin wrote: | governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
Doubt it. Tatum may be overhyped but he delivered in the playoffs in his rookie year. |
Do you think they're far apart? I thought last season, Kuz played better |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:10 am Post subject: |
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He is an important piece for the present and future. We need him to step up into at least a 3rd option level player by next year. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Freddie Buckets Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 9131
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:12 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Vin wrote: | governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
Doubt it. Tatum may be overhyped but he delivered in the playoffs in his rookie year. |
Do you think they're far apart? I thought last season, Kuz played better |
They're pretty even right now, but I'd probably give Kuz the slight edge as of today.
However, Tatum has a much higher ceiling. Kuz has probably maxed out imo. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:14 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
They aren’t the same age, Kuzma has 3 years on Tatum. Let him be a spark for us off the bench, that is a role he is suited for. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Freddie Buckets wrote: | governator wrote: | Vin wrote: | governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
Doubt it. Tatum may be overhyped but he delivered in the playoffs in his rookie year. |
Do you think they're far apart? I thought last season, Kuz played better |
They're pretty even right now, but I'd probably give Kuz the slight edge as of today.
However, Tatum has a much higher ceiling. Kuz has probably maxed out imo. |
I think Tatum has a higher ceiling, but Kuz is turning 24 this week. How does a player "max out" on their ceiling at that age? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Super Mega Team Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 3877
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | Super Mega Team wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | 2019 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | defense wrote: | Hype is still high on Kuzma. I hope his game catches up this season |
19 5.5 and 2.5 second season I’d say he’s done more than keep up with the hype. |
The hate Kuzma gets in sometimes unreal.
Lonzo and BI may have higher ceilings but Kuz has shown the most thus far. Not by a huge margin but he has. He's also shown to be a great fit with LeBron and in the future he and AD are a great fit/tandem. |
How has he shown more? He’s literally only shown to be a scorer. Dude fired every chance he gets. Can’t create off the dribble, is a piss poor defender despite effort and doesn’t rebound well despite being close to the rim. No idea why he won’t do the little things necessary to win, when that’s what made me really like him in SPL and during the early parts of his rookie year while trying to EARN minutes. Hopefully a trip back to the bench humbled him and makes him have a bit more energy to be a more well rounded player. He has it in him. |
He doesn't have spin moves or a running hook off the dribble? Go watch again. |
Eye test tells you differently than the numbers. |
Go get your eyes checked |
https://twitter.com/Trevor_Lane/status/1153517253817618432?s=20 _________________ Formerly OC Lakerfan |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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With all the talent we acquired after getting Davis, Kuzma went from being what looked like the third option, to what I think is more likely a 4th option with the starters, and more of a primary scorer off the bench. I think he will get some starts, but is more likely to be the backup 3 and 4.
With what we had in the past, Kuzma was really the primary complimentary scoring option to Lebron, and he played pretty well with Him. Assuming Cousins is healthy, He and McGee are going to take most if not all the center minutes. Davis is the primary PF, 30-36 minutes a night, and so Kuzma is going to get those minutes, plus some of Lebron's leftover SF minutes, especially against backup SF's. Kuzma may get more time at SF this year.
Kuzma's looks, should get a lot easier with Lebron, Davis, Cousins, Green able passers and floor spacers. Easy cuts to the basket, post-ups against smaller players, and open looks on the perimeter. Still, I think 12-16 ppg on this team as a supporting player looks very, very good. Kuzma I think will adapt very well to being even more of a team player, and I think the defense, rebounding will be decent enough for a supporting role player.
Kuzma may not become a star, but I think he will play his role extremely well, and that is something he will eventually get paid for, and deservedly so. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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dcastillo Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2009 Posts: 2172
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:09 am Post subject: |
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waterman40 wrote: | With all the talent we acquired after getting Davis, Kuzma went from being what looked like the third option, to what I think is more likely a 4th option with the starters, and more of a primary scorer off the bench. I think he will get some starts, but is more likely to be the backup 3 and 4.
With what we had in the past, Kuzma was really the primary complimentary scoring option to Lebron, and he played pretty well with Him. Assuming Cousins is healthy, He and McGee are going to take most if not all the center minutes. Davis is the primary PF, 30-36 minutes a night, and so Kuzma is going to get those minutes, plus some of Lebron's leftover SF minutes, especially against backup SF's. Kuzma may get more time at SF this year.
Kuzma's looks, should get a lot easier with Lebron, Davis, Cousins, Green able passers and floor spacers. Easy cuts to the basket, post-ups against smaller players, and open looks on the perimeter. Still, I think 12-16 ppg on this team as a supporting player looks very, very good. Kuzma I think will adapt very well to being even more of a team player, and I think the defense, rebounding will be decent enough for a supporting role player.
Kuzma may not become a star, but I think he will play his role extremely well, and that is something he will eventually get paid for, and deservedly so. |
I think Kuz can play that Derek Fisher/Rick Fox/Lamar Odom role for us. Need to play better defense than he had obviously but he’s got the work ethic to pull it off. |
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laker50 Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Posts: 2140
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:24 am Post subject: |
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It may be Kuzma's older age, but he looked as good as Lonzo and sometimes even Ingram. And he was a late first round choice and the others were number 2. So Kuzma is a steal at his draft position and salary.
And he now has a teammate he should try to emulate. Danny Green.
Great defender and clutch three point shooter. Plays on championship teams and contributes. May not be the star but that type is needed to win the chip.
Danny Green, Demarcus, Kuzma, Bradley can all be the third option depending on the matchups. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Freddie Buckets wrote: | governator wrote: | Vin wrote: | governator wrote: | If they the same age, would Kuz or should Kuz get as much hype as Tatum? |
Doubt it. Tatum may be overhyped but he delivered in the playoffs in his rookie year. |
Do you think they're far apart? I thought last season, Kuz played better |
They're pretty even right now, but I'd probably give Kuz the slight edge as of today.
However, Tatum has a much higher ceiling. Kuz has probably maxed out imo. |
I think Tatum has a higher ceiling, but Kuz is turning 24 this week. How does a player "max out" on their ceiling at that age? |
That is why you don’t see 4 year players drafted at the top of the first round. They haven’t reached their potential but will sooner than others. Kuzma is going on 7 years post-high school while Tatum is going on 4. All that means is that, assuming players hit their primes around 26-27, Tatum has more time to grow before that point. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma has always been the most streaky player on the team. When he catches fire he becomes the focal point of the offense and the number 1 option.
Even on this team thats true, he needs to learn how to be more consistent but when he becomes unstoppable his talent is undeniable.
Cant wait to see how this summer changes his game, I'm pretty glad he is the one player we were able to keep |
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