Can't say that I've ever noticed him not giving effort on defense.. He's not a lazy or unengaged defender.
His issues are fixable.. He's just a bit too antsy and hyper-reactive.
This is a good way to put it. There's very little economy of motion for him on the defensive end of the court. The narrative that he's not giving effort on defensive end and only focusing on putting up shots or his "gram" is Youtube comments level of laziness. That's flat out (bleep) and shame on any LG'er for perpetuating that crap. _________________ KOBE
Kuz's stance and technique on the defensive end could definitely use some work. Getting feedback from dudes like Hollins, Handy or Vogel very day in practice could potentially benefit Kuz in that regard. Having good vets around is also a plus.
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject:
SocalDevin wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
Half the battle on defense is “want to”. He can get there but he’s just gonna need to apply himself a bit more on that end. DLo and Ingram have an extra year or two of NBA experience under their belts and they aren’t good defensively either.
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This team absolutely needs Kuz to be our 3rd option. He's not part of a "Big 3" but I do think he can be a big help to AD/LBJ. He sort of fills the gaps a bit scoring-wise.
I'm not going to be apologetic and wait for the world to acclaim him as officially good enough to be big 3 worthy. This guy has the tools and motor to consistently do what he's done the last 2 games, and defenses can't make him the center of their focus. He absolutely can be the 3rd special player on a good team. He won't need to get 20 or 30 every night, but if/when AD and Lebron struggle, he's going to be doing just like what he did to save the game against the Suns on the road the other day. He saved them from a demoralizing loss (for the 2nd time) and it wasn't a fluke. His abilities are only going to get better.
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject:
Beir32 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
Half the battle on defense is “want to”. He can get there but he’s just gonna need to apply himself a bit more on that end. DLo and Ingram have an extra year or two of NBA experience under their belts and they aren’t good defensively either.
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:03 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Can't say that I've ever noticed him not giving effort on defense.. He's not a lazy or unengaged defender.
His issues are fixable.. He's just a bit too antsy and hyper-reactive.
This is a good way to put it. There's very little economy of motion for him on the defensive end of the court. The narrative that he's not giving effort on defensive end and only focusing on putting up shots or his "gram" is Youtube comments level of laziness. That's flat out (bleep) and shame on any LG'er for perpetuating that crap.
Yea, I'm not going to say he doesn't get abused at times.. With that being said he's trying like hell.. It's only a matter of time before he's a competent defender consistently.
A lot of you guys complain about his rebounding, I guess he can do better in that department as well.
Overall, considering where we drafted him, he's knocking it out of the park.
The interesting thing about Kuz is that Vogel wants the team to make the extra pass. It's a tricky balancing act because sometimes you want Kuz to make the extra pass. And sometimes you want him to be the finisher and attack. There was an instance yesterday where I thought he could have moved the ball, but instead he drove with a defender and a help defender near by and he scored. At that point, does Vogel point out to Kuz during film session that he should have passed?
Actually I think during the post-game interviews Dudley actually mentioned shot selection as an issue with Kuzma that they are looking for improvement on, and mentioned going over film with him to help him identify those types of plays. I wasn't fully paying attention at that point, but I think the gist of it was that they're ok with Lebron and AD taking bad shots on broken offensive sets (and, you know, pretty much ok with Lebron chucking any dumb shot because he's Lebron), but that they want Kuzma to fit into that role of being a spark plug scorer who plays within the offense. So yeah he's got his teammates and the coaching staff working on that.
Ah good stuff.
Great selection makes such a big difference.
I think Kuz is figuring out how he fits in and finding his spots. Whether it’s spotting up in the corner to trailing LeBron for a 3 or slashing to the basket.
Kuz is figuring out LBJ and AD really make things easier
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject:
AD23 wrote:
I think Kuz is figuring out how he fits in and finding his spots. Whether it’s spotting up in the corner to trailing LeBron for a 3 or slashing to the basket.
Kuz is figuring out LBJ and AD really make things easier
And they're going to figure out the same thing about him.
If you ask me, the term "hater" is the most asinine word in existence.
Like the terms "racist" and "genius", I have no idea what "hater" even means anymore. I suggest we all raise the maturity level up a few notches around here.
As for me and Kuzna, specifically my criticisms of him, they still stand. I haven't been a consistent criticizer of his game. I'm new, but my first critical post of Kuzma came after his best game of the season.
I'm sure there are some Kuzma critics who only come out after bad games, and I think that's wack, but I'm surely not one of them.
I think he played great. I still think for the season he's a 20-25 minute role-player/designated gunner who won't get many minutes down the stretch of meaningful games because good teams with good is guts will attack him and he doesn't have the defensive pedigree yet to withstand an imminent onslaught like that.
Great game. He played his game land did his job well. Kudos to him, but this so-called "hater" hasn't changed his opinion one bit.
Maybe if we read people's posts with more objectivity and nuance and less emotion, we all could have a much clearer understanding of each other's point of views.
Calling someone a "hater" because he sees and points out someones flaws is extremely simple-minded and crude.
Nah Kuz will get better as season progress and also will get better defensively. Right now it’s matter of angles and timing on closing out shooters and denying the slashers their strong side. Also he can afford to be a bit more aggressive at that end.
.
I hear you. Bad defenders usually take time to learn how to defend. That's why I'm a huge proponent of pedigree. Guts that have always played defense, even since high school, can stink it up for a year in the league and bounce back to being solid or excellent because of the defensive skills that are imprinted into their cells. Kuzma doesn't have pedigree. Everything he's learning about defense is pretty new. We'll see. I hope you're right.
Kuz was an All Defensive team at college so he does have a pedigree. NBA is just different level and different game.
I could see this response coming as I typed.
Being named an all defensive conference team doesn't give him pedigree. Guarding your position does that. Those awards are almost meaningless. Marcus Smart, Thybulle, Jrue Holiday, Stacey Augmon, Avery Bradley, Gary Payton, Danny Green, etc. These guys have pedigree. These guys have been playing defense since before college. Kyle Kuzma has the athleticism and the will to defend, but he is still learning how to put it all together.
Disagree . Most of those guys were the whole offense even before they got to college. They are so good that they can dominate at both ends at that level. College is a better filter of capabilities . Even some like Bruce Bowen were big scorers albeit from small program. Kuz getting that acknowledgement means he can be at least a decent defender.
haha, well, Kuz was honorable mention on the Pac 12 defense team.. maybe his effort got him some nods.. cuz, many of us do see the effort.. maybe his length and athleticism combined with effort in college was enough...
I've seen less dance dance revolution feet from him on some possessions recently.. I'd bet the Lakers are trying to help him with that. He overreacts to all moves, gives the offense easy counters. And the overreacting is just over-effort, it's not him getting shook usually..although guards can shake him.
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
haha, well, Kuz was honorable mention on the Pac 12 defense team.. maybe his effort got him some nods.. cuz, many of us do see the effort.. maybe his length and athleticism combined with effort in college was enough...
I've seen less dance dance revolution feet from him on some possessions recently.. I'd bet the Lakers are trying to help him with that. He overreacts to all moves, gives the offense easy counters. And the overreacting is just over-effort, it's not him getting shook usually..although guards can shake him.
Exact same thing I see.. Once he settles down he'll be fine.
Glad to see Kuz breakout. I know some bag on him for his mamba like attitude but this attitude kept him aggressive after his rough start and resulted in these impressive past 3 games.
haha, well, Kuz was honorable mention on the Pac 12 defense team.. maybe his effort got him some nods.. cuz, many of us do see the effort.. maybe his length and athleticism combined with effort in college was enough...
I've seen less dance dance revolution feet from him on some possessions recently.. I'd bet the Lakers are trying to help him with that. He overreacts to all moves, gives the offense easy counters. And the overreacting is just over-effort, it's not him getting shook usually..although guards can shake him.
Play smarter not harder.
Also, he does need to slow down his overreactions, i.e. the way Otto does:
haha, well, Kuz was honorable mention on the Pac 12 defense team.. maybe his effort got him some nods.. cuz, many of us do see the effort.. maybe his length and athleticism combined with effort in college was enough...
I've seen less dance dance revolution feet from him on some possessions recently.. I'd bet the Lakers are trying to help him with that. He overreacts to all moves, gives the offense easy counters. And the overreacting is just over-effort, it's not him getting shook usually..although guards can shake him.
Play smarter not harder.
Also, he does need to slow down his overreactions, i.e. the way Otto does:
lmao he should call him for the advice, strategy , IQ
I’m a Kuz fan, I tend to root for young players, well outplaying their draft position and salary. I’ve rooted for almost every young Laker, but I wasn’t that happy with Ball Ingram, or Randle ( but in Randles case he had a great last year, but then we got Lebron and didn’t need JR.)
Kuz still makes less than $2 million, has had plenty of high scoring and key games, even with an erratic second year. I think once he is health6 he will be a solid contributor.
It will be very interesting to see if he becomes trade bait for some other power player, or if we do re-sign him next year as a restricted free agent.
haha, well, Kuz was honorable mention on the Pac 12 defense team.. maybe his effort got him some nods.. cuz, many of us do see the effort.. maybe his length and athleticism combined with effort in college was enough...
I've seen less dance dance revolution feet from him on some possessions recently.. I'd bet the Lakers are trying to help him with that. He overreacts to all moves, gives the offense easy counters. And the overreacting is just over-effort, it's not him getting shook usually..although guards can shake him.
Exact same thing I see.. Once he settles down he'll be fine.
His issues are fixable with experience and work ethic. I’ll be more worried if he does not have that physical attributes to make up for it.
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