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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | Anyone know which mock drafts had Kuzma the highest? I think nbadraft.net had him at 16. But curious who was highest on him. |
I think that's it. Seems everyone else had him in the 40s. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54519
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
It's harder to show off what Kuzma was capable of considering Utah's less paced offense.
High pace/open floor game unlocks Kuzma's abilities. Being able to do that i the halfcourt with traffic is every bit as important.
But as I mentioned in a prior post, Kuzma crossed off the check list.
1. PreDraft measurements + workouts
2. PreDraft combine/scrimmage
3. Interview
When a guy gets checkmarks across the board, it's relatively safe to pick him up. It especially helps to have a raving interview with Laker executives, especially when Magic can relate to him because of the Lansing, MI roots and Pelinka noticing a certain energy and bounce to his play on the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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LakerDYnasty72 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4562
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
It's harder to show off what Kuzma was capable of considering Utah's less paced offense.
High pace/open floor game unlocks Kuzma's abilities. Being able to do that i the halfcourt with traffic is every bit as important.
But as I mentioned in a prior post, Kuzma crossed off the check list.
1. PreDraft measurements + workouts
2. PreDraft combine/scrimmage
3. Interview
When a guy gets checkmarks across the board, it's relatively safe to pick him up. It especially helps to have a raving interview with Laker executives, especially when Magic can relate to him because of the Lansing, MI roots and Pelinka noticing a certain energy and bounce to his play on the floor. |
Man, pure gold right there sir. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:34 am Post subject: |
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LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
It's harder to show off what Kuzma was capable of considering Utah's less paced offense.
High pace/open floor game unlocks Kuzma's abilities. Being able to do that i the halfcourt with traffic is every bit as important.
But as I mentioned in a prior post, Kuzma crossed off the check list.
1. PreDraft measurements + workouts
2. PreDraft combine/scrimmage
3. Interview
When a guy gets checkmarks across the board, it's relatively safe to pick him up. It especially helps to have a raving interview with Laker executives, especially when Magic can relate to him because of the Lansing, MI roots and Pelinka noticing a certain energy and bounce to his play on the floor. |
Man, pure gold right there sir. |
Everybody knows I'm the last person here to overhype a young player (except by my boy Zubac ), but Kuzma had a huge summer league. The young Buss is scouting him for a few years and he killed it in front of Magic and Pelinka in Chicago. Unlike Nance another late pick that I love and believe was our best PF (stats say so) Kuzma is not afraid of the spotlight and is willing to make the big play and has some very good skills to do so.
Huge pick and I'm not talking about a great late pick like Nance, Zubac and Clarkson, he is looking like a legit top 8 pick with modern game skill set. |
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LakerDYnasty72 Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4562
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: |
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nash wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
It's harder to show off what Kuzma was capable of considering Utah's less paced offense.
High pace/open floor game unlocks Kuzma's abilities. Being able to do that i the halfcourt with traffic is every bit as important.
But as I mentioned in a prior post, Kuzma crossed off the check list.
1. PreDraft measurements + workouts
2. PreDraft combine/scrimmage
3. Interview
When a guy gets checkmarks across the board, it's relatively safe to pick him up. It especially helps to have a raving interview with Laker executives, especially when Magic can relate to him because of the Lansing, MI roots and Pelinka noticing a certain energy and bounce to his play on the floor. |
Man, pure gold right there sir. |
Everybody knows I'm the last person here to overhype a young player (except by my boy Zubac ), but Kuzma had a huge summer league. The young Buss is scouting him for a few years and he killed it in front of Magic and Pelinka in Chicago. Unlike Nance another late pick that I love and believe was our best PF (stats say so) Kuzma is not afraid of the spotlight and is willing to make the big play and has some very good skills to do so.
Huge pick and I'm not talking about a great late pick like Nance, Zubac and Clarkson, he is looking like a legit top 8 pick with modern game skill set. |
I am extremely interested in what a spot lineup of Kuzma at the 3, and Nance at the 4 looks like. Throw in the mastery of Ball, and some defense from KCP, then sic em' on the opponent. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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^am hoping Nance is a competent 3pt. shooter with that lineup. Playing Kuzma at the 3 negates his athletic advantages on both ends of the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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markjay Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 3911 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:10 am Post subject: |
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It seems to me that people are underrating Kuzma's ceiling. There wasn't anything that he did in summer league that was a surprise to anybody except his lights out shooting. Ordinarily, you'd say that was a fluke that can't be continued. But actually there are a lot of signs that it wasnt a fluke, including his dramatic improvement in 3-point shooting from the beginning to end of his last season, his high 3-point percentage from NBA distance in college, his shooting performance in the combine and his tryouts, and the quality and speed of his stroke.
So the question is, what if his shooting wasn't a fluke? What if he ends up shooting 45% from the 3 (several points below what he shot in summer league), and continues doing other things he did in summer league (on fast breaks, transitions, defense, etc.) Couldn't he end up being one of the best players in the league.
I am very nervous about using a player with that potential to dump a bad contract (Deng) or to trade for a superstar that we could pick up in free agency at the end of the season. You may think it's unlikely he can keep shooting like that, but shouldn't we give him a chance to prove it? |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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^Disagree about one of the best players in the league. He's still struggling to create quality shots on close outs, nevermind finishing against help defenders at the rim.
I definitely understand the excitement about Kuzma's shooting and accuracy from Vegas, but two critical differences in style of play between Ryan Anderson and Klay Thompson, are those two exact things. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: |
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LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | nash wrote: | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | nash wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | nash wrote: | Is it just my impression or Kuzma outclassed the performance of all our rookies from past 3 seasons including our 3 high lottery picks?
If my memory don't fails me I just remember Julius with a very good, still unremarkable summer league.
There is not much to talk about Ball in this regard, he had a HUGE summer league, but Kuzma actually was not too short in terms of performance and impact IMO. |
Considering they were 18-19 and he is 22, is that a surprise? |
How old is Ball?
How old was Kobe?
Kuzma surprises me because not many 22 years old players can do what he did and if you look again I was not just talking about young lottery picks.
The age is a factor for sure, but he performed way beyond expectations, at least for me.
Above all, the way he plays fit our needs, he can shoot, is a good passer, has high IQ, is a ball-mover and plays defense hard. |
It's harder to show off what Kuzma was capable of considering Utah's less paced offense.
High pace/open floor game unlocks Kuzma's abilities. Being able to do that i the halfcourt with traffic is every bit as important.
But as I mentioned in a prior post, Kuzma crossed off the check list.
1. PreDraft measurements + workouts
2. PreDraft combine/scrimmage
3. Interview
When a guy gets checkmarks across the board, it's relatively safe to pick him up. It especially helps to have a raving interview with Laker executives, especially when Magic can relate to him because of the Lansing, MI roots and Pelinka noticing a certain energy and bounce to his play on the floor. |
Man, pure gold right there sir. |
Everybody knows I'm the last person here to overhype a young player (except by my boy Zubac ), but Kuzma had a huge summer league. The young Buss is scouting him for a few years and he killed it in front of Magic and Pelinka in Chicago. Unlike Nance another late pick that I love and believe was our best PF (stats say so) Kuzma is not afraid of the spotlight and is willing to make the big play and has some very good skills to do so.
Huge pick and I'm not talking about a great late pick like Nance, Zubac and Clarkson, he is looking like a legit top 8 pick with modern game skill set. |
I am extremely interested in what a spot lineup of Kuzma at the 3, and Nance at the 4 looks like. Throw in the mastery of Ball, and some defense from KCP, then sic em' on the opponent. | I'm looking forward to seeing them at the 4 and 5. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | ^Disagree about one of the best players in the league. He's still struggling to create quality shots on close outs, nevermind finishing against help defenders at the rim.
I definitely understand the excitement about Kuzma's shooting and accuracy from Vegas, but two critical differences in style of play between Ryan Anderson and Klay Thompson, are those two exact things. |
Let's just be happy we saw the raw ability that he has and stay optimistic that he'll show it in the NBA. He definitely is a keeper and could be very good at some point. |
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lakerfan2012 Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2012 Posts: 2035
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Don't know if this comparison has been made yet but but with his play style and skill set I think he can be Trevor Ariza. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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lakerfan2012 wrote: | Don't know if this comparison has been made yet but but with his play style and skill set I think he can be Trevor Ariza. |
In play style, I agree. He looks to be a more dynamic shot maker, though. That James Worthy spin move was never in Ariza's arsenal. |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40188 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: |
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lakerfan2012 wrote: | Don't know if this comparison has been made yet but but with his play style and skill set I think he can be Trevor Ariza. |
I've mentioned it before but if you are looking for Laker comparisons the closest might be a taller Ariza or Horry...maybe some combo of those two. Obviously, not a perfect comparison, but there are some similarities in what they can and can't do. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:02 am Post subject: |
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It's also crazy how far Ariza developed since UCLA. An asthmatic, energy PF/SF in the mold of Mbah a Moute to a legit 3 and D guy. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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HOF Rookie Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015 Posts: 1717
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma reminds me of the best aspects of pippen, lebron, grant hill, and Larry bird. |
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h2omike Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2811
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Not a SG, but I see a little Dennis Johnson in Kuz. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | ^am hoping Nance is a competent 3pt. shooter with that lineup. Playing Kuzma at the 3 negates his athletic advantages on both ends of the floor. |
While I agree that he misses his athletic advantages at SF, I believe if he can shoot 3s with consistency he is going to spend minutes there behind Ingram because the space he provides may also help us big time.
By the way the forward spots are somewhat interchangeable nowadays and he did everything a modern player is asked to do in summer league defending, moving the ball, shooting from deep and attacking the basket. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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markjay wrote: |
So the question is, what if his shooting wasn't a fluke? What if he ends up shooting 45% from the 3 (several points below what he shot in summer league), and continues doing other things he did in summer league (on fast breaks, transitions, defense, etc.) Couldn't he end up being one of the best players in the league.
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The point is that he don't need to be.
Not long ago we were talking if it is not enough for our young high lottery picks to develop into solid 3rd or even 4th options in a championship contender. If we can find such a player late in the draft it is a legit homerun. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | lakerfan2012 wrote: | Don't know if this comparison has been made yet but but with his play style and skill set I think he can be Trevor Ariza. |
I've mentioned it before but if you are looking for Laker comparisons the closest might be a taller Ariza or Horry...maybe some combo of those two. Obviously, not a perfect comparison, but there are some similarities in what they can and can't do. |
I like that mixed comp |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | lakerfan2012 wrote: | Don't know if this comparison has been made yet but but with his play style and skill set I think he can be Trevor Ariza. |
I've mentioned it before but if you are looking for Laker comparisons the closest might be a taller Ariza or Horry...maybe some combo of those two. Obviously, not a perfect comparison, but there are some similarities in what they can and can't do. |
I like that mixed comp |
The thing that I love about his shot that I'm sure that you appreciate (and makes him a little different than Horry/Ariza) is that he gets it up so damn quickly. That's gonna help a lot with volume. He doesn't need much space to be "open". |
Yup, Horry needed such a deliberate 1,2 step. Kuzma's setup and square up , so efficient - deceives the defender with the square up in particular
I'm going to find who squares up similarly. It's also awesome seeing a PF be able to hop like 5 feet to his side and get into his shot no problem. Can't find a young PF with more upside shooting |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds crazy, but outside of Klay Thompson, you won't find almost anyone else who lulls their defender to sleep on square ups to fire . Durant sometimes too, but his swing through is more deliberate and drawn out
Edit: Melo is great at this. Kobe was great at it in the midrange. Contested lull your defender while squaring up J. Don't know if Kuz'll shoot these in real games but SL 🔥
Last edited by KeepItRealOrElse on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Cranjis also posted that he shot well on NBA line 3s in college , think it was maybe 30attempts though
Ya I can't make sense of it either. Just clicked for him about 6 months ago. Guess it clicks for non shooters - to shooters, all at some point. |
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