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2019
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
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I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Yeah because eff Rob for even trying to keep Kuzma
If you're going to make a point knocking Rob, at least get it right. Moe was salary dump for Kawhi. Kuzma was removed from trade talks for AD and good on us for that. Blame the fun guy and his uncle for Moe. |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. So Kuz could ball whenever Lebron wasn't playing. He'd make a great fit for another team because Lebron is gonna be here for the foreseeable future. Hopefully, other teams recognize this and give us good value in return.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
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I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Do you believe Moe produces the same on this team if he got Kuz's minutes? |
Wouldn’t he have Dwight’s minutes? I don’t think that they sign him if they have Moe.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
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I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Yeah because eff Rob for even trying to keep Kuzma
If you're going to make a point knocking Rob, at least get it right. Moe was salary dump for Kawhi. Kuzma was removed from trade talks for AD and good on us for that. Blame the fun guy and his uncle for Moe. |
No, any blame goes to the guy who made the moves. Salary dumping for Kawhi without a commitment was dumb and showed a lot of inexperience. And it wasn’t the first time that it has happened.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. So Kuz could ball whenever Lebron wasn't playing. He'd make a great fit for another team because Lebron is gonna be here for the foreseeable future. Hopefully, other teams recognize this and give us good value in return. |
Lol "another." 18 points on 17 shots, against the worst team in the NBA, is a good game now? The dude has been straight trash for 2 months. His 3-points shooting is quickly approaching New Career Low. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. |
Shooting 8 for 17 and 1 for 4 on threes is a "great game" in a 30-point blowout against the worse team in the NBA?
Um .... |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. |
Shooting 8 for 17 and 1 for 4 on threes is a "great game" in a 30-point blowout against the worse team in the NBA?
Um .... |
It's the Kuzma standard. Blondie gets a pass. Get used to it.
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Kobe_Is_King13
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. |
Shooting 8 for 17 and 1 for 4 on threes is a "great game" in a 30-point blowout against the worse team in the NBA?
Um .... |
It wasn't great, but it was a good game. 47% shooting is good.
I just really like how Kuzma has stepped up his scoring when needed the most. That bodes well for the playoffs |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe_Is_King13 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. |
Shooting 8 for 17 and 1 for 4 on threes is a "great game" in a 30-point blowout against the worse team in the NBA?
Um .... |
It wasn't great, but it was a good game. 47% shooting is good.
I just really like how Kuzma has stepped up his scoring when needed the most. That bodes well for the playoffs |
Yes, it bodes well for the playoffs that he averaged less than a point per shot against a crappy team in tank mode. Bodes very well. |
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2019
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
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I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Yeah because eff Rob for even trying to keep Kuzma
If you're going to make a point knocking Rob, at least get it right. Moe was salary dump for Kawhi. Kuzma was removed from trade talks for AD and good on us for that. Blame the fun guy and his uncle for Moe. |
No, any blame goes to the guy who made the moves. Salary dumping for Kawhi without a commitment was dumb and showed a lot of inexperience. And it wasn’t the first time that it has happened. |
I can get behind that as well. It was a hasty move by a GM and owner who thought they were going to own the league for the next 5 years. Ego outweighed strategy.
But my bigger point was knocking a GM for keeping a talented young player out of trade talks and conflating that with Wagner in a completely separate transaction. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. |
Shooting 8 for 17 and 1 for 4 on threes is a "great game" in a 30-point blowout against the worse team in the NBA?
Um .... |
It's the Kuzma standard. Blondie gets a pass. Get used to it. |
Blondie. That’s a good one. 
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
|
I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Yeah because eff Rob for even trying to keep Kuzma
If you're going to make a point knocking Rob, at least get it right. Moe was salary dump for Kawhi. Kuzma was removed from trade talks for AD and good on us for that. Blame the fun guy and his uncle for Moe. |
No, any blame goes to the guy who made the moves. Salary dumping for Kawhi without a commitment was dumb and showed a lot of inexperience. And it wasn’t the first time that it has happened. |
I can get behind that as well. It was a hasty move by a GM and owner who thought they were going to own the league for the next 5 years. Ego outweighed strategy.
But my bigger point was knocking a GM for keeping a talented young player out of trade talks and conflating that with Wagner in a completely separate transaction. |
It's being unable to reconcile the following:
They saw the talent in Wagner enough to draft him, but not enough to not straight salary dump him.
(Should have) seen that Kuzma struggled over a full season with Lebron, and that adding another guy to take shots away from a volume shooter was unlikely to lead to improvement, yet "fought" to keep him over every other young guy. |
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Nobody
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Another great game by Kuz without Lebron playing as expected. So Kuz could ball whenever Lebron wasn't playing. He'd make a great fit for another team because Lebron is gonna be here for the foreseeable future. Hopefully, other teams recognize this and give us good value in return. |
Lol "another." 18 points on 17 shots, against the worst team in the NBA, is a good game now? The dude has been straight trash for 2 months. His 3-points shooting is quickly approaching New Career Low. |
Just came to post this. This was a horrible showing. He mustered up an offensive rating of 86. The Lakers as a team had a 111.1 rating. |
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Mamba81
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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from what I saw kuzma had a good game. at least the first 3 quarters. towards the end when it was already decided he was kinda just throwing a lot of shots up, which might've made his stat line look worse than it actually was.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba81 wrote: | | from what I saw kuzma had a good game. at least the first 3 quarters. towards the end when it was already decided he was kinda just throwing a lot of shots up, which might've made his stat line look worse than it actually was. |
Yep. He was the reason we gapped them the first time with I think three straight buckets, then was on the floor and contributed to our huge run in the 3rd.
Was a good game. It wasn't a superstar game, but people thinking 47% shooting is poor are smoking something. Or just want him off the team.
The league average is 46%. 47% is completely acceptable for a role player. He played well against the Celtics also shooting 46%.
Needs to look for contact more and draw fouls though. |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| He's a lost cause. |
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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And I will demonstrate how 47% is acceptable by posting stats from Lou Williams last 15 games
3/7 for 6 points
3/7 for 8 points
8/17 for 24 points
14/33 for 35 points (OMG, 35 points from 33 shots. WHAT A SCRUB!)
5/15 for 13 points
8/14 for 25 points (10 FTAs)
4/10 for 11 points
3/9 for 14 points (9 FTAs)
3/12 for 12 points (7 FTAs)
7/19 for 17 points
7/22 for 22 points
3/10 for 15 points (8 FTAs)
5/14 for 16 points
6/19 for 18 points (AGAINST THE HAWKS! SCRUB!)
5/19 for 16 points
So using the formula people above are using, Lou is obviously not playoff ready 
Kuz played well. He needs to get to the line more but otherwise his Celtic game and his Warriors game were good. |
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Kobe_Is_King13
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | And I will demonstrate how 47% is acceptable by posting stats from Lou Williams last 15 games
3/7 for 6 points
3/7 for 8 points
8/17 for 24 points
14/33 for 35 points (OMG, 35 points from 33 shots. WHAT A SCRUB!)
5/15 for 13 points
8/14 for 25 points (10 FTAs)
4/10 for 11 points
3/9 for 14 points (9 FTAs)
3/12 for 12 points (7 FTAs)
7/19 for 17 points
7/22 for 22 points
3/10 for 15 points (8 FTAs)
5/14 for 16 points
6/19 for 18 points (AGAINST THE HAWKS! SCRUB!)
5/19 for 16 points
So using the formula people above are using, Lou is obviously not playoff ready
Kuz played well. He needs to get to the line more but otherwise his Celtic game and his Warriors game were good. |
Exactly. Look Kuz isn't going to be the 3rd star. He's not quite ready to be that on a championship contender. He hasn't developed go-to moves or learned to get to the FT line consistently.
However, what I've seen is a player that tends to step up in games where he's needed. His biggest games so far have come when the Lakers needed them the most. That's something that is often overlooked. When AD and Bron are there he's not going to be a high level scorer, nor does he need to be. But when one sits, he's consistently shown that he can step up to the plate and fill in for some the missing scoring punch. |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | And I will demonstrate how 47% is acceptable by posting stats from Lou Williams last 15 games
3/7 for 6 points
3/7 for 8 points
8/17 for 24 points
14/33 for 35 points (OMG, 35 points from 33 shots. WHAT A SCRUB!)
5/15 for 13 points
8/14 for 25 points (10 FTAs)
4/10 for 11 points
3/9 for 14 points (9 FTAs)
3/12 for 12 points (7 FTAs)
7/19 for 17 points
7/22 for 22 points
3/10 for 15 points (8 FTAs)
5/14 for 16 points
6/19 for 18 points (AGAINST THE HAWKS! SCRUB!)
5/19 for 16 points
So using the formula people above are using, Lou is obviously not playoff ready
Kuz played well. He needs to get to the line more but otherwise his Celtic game and his Warriors game were good. |
Lou Williams is in his 15th season and almost 34 years old...those stats are actually impressive for him coming off the bench.
No comparison.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is in his 15th season and almost 34 years old |
Irrelevant. Lou is considered a great 6th man. He is NOT considered a great 6th man "for his age"
| GTL wrote: | | ...those stats are actually impressive for him coming off the bench. |
And they'd be great for Kuz also.
Just one reason why he actually played well against the Warriors and the Celtics. |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is in his 15th season and almost 34 years old |
Irrelevant. Lou is considered a great 6th man. He is NOT considered a great 6th man "for his age"
| GTL wrote: | | ...those stats are actually impressive for him coming off the bench. |
And they'd be great for Kuz also.
Just one reason why he actually played well against the Warriors and the Celtics. |
Again, I fail to see the comparison. You're putting up a 15 year vet whose having a near career year off the bench for a winning team against a guy in his third season who seems to be regressing, at least on our particular team.
How many 6th man of the year awards has Lou won in his career? If you're arguing that Kyle is as good or on par with Williams, I have a bridge to sell you. Lakers wouldn't think twice to ship his ass out for Lou, the Clippers would laugh in our face.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
Again, I fail to see the comparison. You're putting up a 15 year vet whose having a near career year off the bench for a winning team against a guy in his third season who seems to be regressing, at least on our particular team. |
Once again this is all irrelevant. Lou Williams is considered one of the best 6th men in the league. He is not one of the best "34 year old 6th men in the league".
Therefore his stats are used as a comparison for what is acceptable in that 6th man, come on and score role.
| GTL wrote: |
How many 6th man of the year awards has Lou won in his career? |
Three. He won last year and he won the year before.
| GTL wrote: |
If you're arguing that Kyle is as good or on par with Williams, I have a bridge to sell you. Lakers wouldn't think twice to ship his ass out for Lou, the Clippers would laugh in our face. |
Where have I said Kuz is as good as Lou Williams?
What I said was shooting 47% isn't "playing bad". Lou's FG% is well below that. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | So .. one of the (few) instances where Magic actually made the right call? (in drafting Wagner)
| pjiddy wrote: | | Better in every single way. Unbelievable. It's impossible to know if the FO is really this bad at assessing its own talent or just that bad at developing it. |
|
I will eat (bleep) on Wagner. He didn't stand out to me all that much in college. Every time he was on the floor last year he looked completely lost and I didn't see single thing he did well. Tbf, I was already biased against him cuz I thought we blew it not taking Melton. But yeah... Whether it was Rob or Magic (I think it was Rob?) he has been good.
Unfortunately that insight did not prevail when Wagner was a straight salary dump while Rob "fought" to hold onto Kuz. |
Yeah because eff Rob for even trying to keep Kuzma
If you're going to make a point knocking Rob, at least get it right. Moe was salary dump for Kawhi. Kuzma was removed from trade talks for AD and good on us for that. Blame the fun guy and his uncle for Moe. |
No, any blame goes to the guy who made the moves. Salary dumping for Kawhi without a commitment was dumb and showed a lot of inexperience. And it wasn’t the first time that it has happened. |
I firmly believe that Kobe was where a lot of Rob’s strength and knowledge came from. Hope Rob can dig deep and and lead this organization moving forward.
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GTL
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 9839
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
Again, I fail to see the comparison. You're putting up a 15 year vet whose having a near career year off the bench for a winning team against a guy in his third season who seems to be regressing, at least on our particular team. |
Once again this is all irrelevant. Lou Williams is considered one of the best 6th men in the league. He is not one of the best "34 year old 6th men in the league".
Therefore his stats are used as a comparison for what is acceptable in that 6th man, come on and score role.
| GTL wrote: |
How many 6th man of the year awards has Lou won in his career? |
Three. He won last year and he won the year before.
| GTL wrote: |
If you're arguing that Kyle is as good or on par with Williams, I have a bridge to sell you. Lakers wouldn't think twice to ship his ass out for Lou, the Clippers would laugh in our face. |
Where have I said Kuz is as good as Lou Williams?
What I said was shooting 47% isn't "playing bad". Lou's FG% is well below that. |
Lou Williams is an impact scorer. He's also a solid playmaker. His assist average reflects that, and he's a savvy on court presence. He's got a low assist to turnover ratio. He's also clutch. This is all off the bench.
I personally don't see Kuzma reaching this level of play on this team. Can he score a lot of points on a lottery squad? Maybe. A lot of players do. But his impact on our particular squad this season in terms of net positives can be counted on one hand, maybe two. He's had a stretch of decent games statistically, but you can fill that role with a plethora of players and wouldn't see much difference in execution and overall team winning percentage.
His impact is overrated here.
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drae
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Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is an impact scorer. He's also a solid playmaker. His assist totals may not reflect that, but he's a savvy on court presence. He's got a low assist to turnover ratio. He's also clutch. This is all off the bench.
I personally don't see Kuzma reaching this level of play on this team. Can he score a lot of points on a lottery squad? Maybe. A lot of players do. But his impact on our particular squad this season in terms of net positives can be counted on one hand, maybe two. He's had a stretch of decent games statistically, but you can fill that role with a plethora of players and wouldn't see much difference in execution and overall team winning percentage.
His impact is overrated here. |
You want to argue something completely different to what is being argued.
2 questions. Is Kyle shooting 47% for 18 points bad or good?
If it's bad what does that say about Lou Williams? |
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