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GTL
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is an impact scorer. He's also a solid playmaker. His assist totals may not reflect that, but he's a savvy on court presence. He's got a low assist to turnover ratio. He's also clutch. This is all off the bench.
I personally don't see Kuzma reaching this level of play on this team. Can he score a lot of points on a lottery squad? Maybe. A lot of players do. But his impact on our particular squad this season in terms of net positives can be counted on one hand, maybe two. He's had a stretch of decent games statistically, but you can fill that role with a plethora of players and wouldn't see much difference in execution and overall team winning percentage.
His impact is overrated here. |
You want to argue something completely different to what is being argued.
2 questions. Is Kyle shooting 47% for 18 points bad or good?
If it's bad what does that say about Lou Williams? |
He was 2-7 in the 4th quarter and 8-17 overall for 18 points in a 20 point blowout against the worst team in the West.
I don't see this as either good or bad. It's just average considering the amount of hype some people have placed on Kyle.
Lou Williams is a past his prime vet who continues to play beyond what were supposed to be his best years.
Two completely different points in time for two completely different players.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
I don't see this as either good or bad. It's just average |
Good to know Lou is just average as a player, then |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
I don't see this as either good or bad. It's just average |
Good to know Lou is just average as a player, then |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights he had by comparing it to one good game Kuzma had? 
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is an impact scorer. He's also a solid playmaker. His assist totals may not reflect that, but he's a savvy on court presence. He's got a low assist to turnover ratio. He's also clutch. This is all off the bench.
I personally don't see Kuzma reaching this level of play on this team. Can he score a lot of points on a lottery squad? Maybe. A lot of players do. But his impact on our particular squad this season in terms of net positives can be counted on one hand, maybe two. He's had a stretch of decent games statistically, but you can fill that role with a plethora of players and wouldn't see much difference in execution and overall team winning percentage.
His impact is overrated here. |
You want to argue something completely different to what is being argued.
2 questions. Is Kyle shooting 47% for 18 points bad or good?
If it's bad what does that say about Lou Williams? |
Against the worst team in the league? It’s adequate. The Boston game was good. Kuzma has had some good games this season and has stepped up when AD and/or LeBron have been sidelined, but he has mostly been very inconsistent and poor when both have been playing, and we need more than that. The really worrisome thing is that if he isn’t giving us consistent good minutes now, it’s hard to think we can rely on him in what will be his first ever experience in the playoffs. I really, really hope he starts stringing together some games during this last 25 and builds up his confidence, because the playoffs are when teams stop effing around like they tend to do during a long 82 game season, and when they can really dig into tapes and gameplan to take away strengths. |
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GTL
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
You're the one who called Lou average based on a string of shooting performances in comparison to a lesser player in Kuzma.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
You're the one who called Lou average based on a string of shooting performances in comparison to a lesser player in Kuzma. |
You have been misreading the argument the whole time.
If I were to apply the same criteria for Lou that you applied for Kuzma then Lou would be considered an average player.
He's not though. He's considered the best 6th man in the league.
Which means people's analysis of Kuzma's performance is off.
| mhan00 wrote: | | I really, really hope he starts stringing together some games during this last 25 and builds up his confidence, because the playoffs are when teams stop effing around like they tend to do during a long 82 game season, and when they can really dig into tapes and gameplan to take away strengths. |
Hopefully moving to SF helps him  |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
You're the one who called Lou average based on a string of shooting performances in comparison to a lesser player in Kuzma. |
You have been misreading the argument the whole time.
If I were to apply the same criteria for Lou that you applied for Kuzma then Lou would be considered an average player.
He's not though. He's considered the best 6th man in the league.
Which means people's analysis of Kuzma's performance is off. |
I understand the argument you're making. Don't think you utilized the right player when making said comparison.
I could have argued that Monta Ellis was just as good as Kobe back when he was with the Warriors because both had similar strings of low or average percentage shooting nights at one point during the season. The comparison is still asinine. Ellis was far from Kobe, just like Kuzma is currently far from Lou.
He's an average 6th man.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
You're the one who called Lou average based on a string of shooting performances in comparison to a lesser player in Kuzma. |
You have been misreading the argument the whole time.
If I were to apply the same criteria for Lou that you applied for Kuzma then Lou would be considered an average player.
He's not though. He's considered the best 6th man in the league.
Which means people's analysis of Kuzma's performance is off. |
I understand the argument you're making. Don't think you utilized the right player when making said comparison.
I could have argued that Monta Ellis was just as good as Kobe back when he was with the Warriors because both had similar strings of low or average percentage shooting nights at one point during the season. The comparison is still asinine.
He's an average 6th man. |
I wasn't arguing Kuz was as good as Lou. I said shooting 47% wasn't bad.
You keep trotting out that strawman... |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
You're the one who called Lou average based on a string of shooting performances in comparison to a lesser player in Kuzma. |
You have been misreading the argument the whole time.
If I were to apply the same criteria for Lou that you applied for Kuzma then Lou would be considered an average player.
He's not though. He's considered the best 6th man in the league.
Which means people's analysis of Kuzma's performance is off. |
I understand the argument you're making. Don't think you utilized the right player when making said comparison.
I could have argued that Monta Ellis was just as good as Kobe back when he was with the Warriors because both had similar strings of low or average percentage shooting nights at one point during the season. The comparison is still asinine.
He's an average 6th man. |
I wasn't arguing Kuz was as good as Lou. I said shooting 47% wasn't bad.
You keep trotting out that strawman... |
| Quote: | Once again this is all irrelevant. Lou Williams is considered one of the best 6th men in the league. He is not one of the best "34 year old 6th men in the league".
Therefore his stats are used as a comparison for what is acceptable in that 6th man, come on and score role. |
This is what you stated. You made the comparison, I was responding to the initial statistics that you posted.
You were using them as a means to hype up Kuzma. How is that not arguing that exact point?
So Kuzma had a few good games this season. So what? Lots of players have 8-17 shooting nights for 18 points. And?
Lets move on.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: |
This is what you stated. You made the comparison, I was responding to the initial statistics that you posted. |
In the very first post with my statistics I said:
"And I will demonstrate how 47% is acceptable by posting stats from Lou Williams last 15 games"
If you want to change that to me saying how Kuzma's just as good as Lou, that's an assumption you've made on your part. And also a strawman. |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
This is what you stated. You made the comparison, I was responding to the initial statistics that you posted. |
In the very first post with my statistics I said:
"And I will demonstrate how 47% is acceptable by posting stats from Lou Williams last 15 games"
If you want to change that to me saying how Kuzma's just as good as Lou, that's an assumption you've made on your part. And also a strawman. |
I really don't think it was though.
But this is circular at this point. Agree to disagree.
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drae
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GTL wrote: | | Agree to disagree. |
Sure
Let's just hope he can improve now he's at SF and not playing PF |
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cencio_999
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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He's a late 1st round pick.
Nothing more, nothing less. |
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GTL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: | | Agree to disagree. |
Sure
Let's just hope he can improve now he's at SF and not playing PF |
Oh we can definitely agree to that! 
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
So you're measuring Lou's entire 15 year career |
Irrelevant.
| GTL wrote: |
with a stretch of average or sub-par shooting nights |
Lou's career FG% is 42%
| GTL wrote: |
Isn't that the same crap Kobe haters did for years when they would diminish his past achievements? Come on. |
I am saying Lou is good. That he is the best 6th man in the league this year despite his crap defense.
And that the people who are saying "Kuzma shooting 47% doesn't bode well for the playoffs" either have unrealistic expectations, or just don't like Kuzma. |
Except Kuzma isn't shooting 47% on the season. That was a single game against an awful team. So it doesn't "bode" at all. He won't get 15 shots in a playoff game unless AD or Lebron are out, and if that's the case, then we're screwed anyway.
His TS% this season is .528, a career low by almost 20 points. Lou is having a "down" year at .543, which would nearly represent a career high for Kuzma.
And remember how you're always raving about that one corner 3 Kuzma averages per game creating all kinds of gravity? Extrapolate that out to a full 30 minutes where Lou has the ball and almost completely sucks in the defense with his dribbling and PnR skills. Even if his efficiency is down, he creates open looks for others and finds them with 6 dimes a game. Call me when Kuzma adds a 2nd skill (or even a middling-efficiency 1st) to his repertoire. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | GTL wrote: |
Lou Williams is an impact scorer. He's also a solid playmaker. His assist totals may not reflect that, but he's a savvy on court presence. He's got a low assist to turnover ratio. He's also clutch. This is all off the bench.
I personally don't see Kuzma reaching this level of play on this team. Can he score a lot of points on a lottery squad? Maybe. A lot of players do. But his impact on our particular squad this season in terms of net positives can be counted on one hand, maybe two. He's had a stretch of decent games statistically, but you can fill that role with a plethora of players and wouldn't see much difference in execution and overall team winning percentage.
His impact is overrated here. |
You want to argue something completely different to what is being argued.
2 questions. Is Kyle shooting 47% for 18 points bad or good?
If it's bad what does that say about Lou Williams? |
Not good and it says nothing about Lou. His 3 rebounds and 4 TOs? Also not good.
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chickenjoy24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cencio_999 wrote: | He's a late 1st round pick.
Nothing more, nothing less. |
2017 27th overall pick: Kyle Kuzma
2016 27th overall pick: Pascal Siakam
other later pick gems
2015 - Montrez Harrell 31st overall
2014 - Nikola Jokic 41st overall
2013 - Gobert 27th overall
2012 - Draymond 35th , Middleton 39th
You can find gems down there. That said if you look at most late picks, most are irrelevant. Kuzma is actually a good find. (ie Anthony Brown, Goudelock, Kelly, Ebanks etc) |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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I wanted Trez at Nance’s spot
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mhan00
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| Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Teams aren’t worried about Kuzma from behind the arc anymore. He tried to head fake close outs a ton of times tonight and not once did a Grizzly player even pretend to be worried about his shot. A big part of his offense in previous seasons was him attacking close outs and getting penetration that way, but he’s just not getting that anymore because teams don’t seem to care if he shoots it.
Some good effort on defense, but not great. His post game against smaller players is a joke right now. And please work on your damn fts. He’s been so bad at the line for the past few games. |
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Nobody
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Another subpar outing. It seems like he has also forgotten to dribble and pass (if he ever even knew how to do that) |
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ThePageDude
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, and I also see hesitation - which is understandable since he hasn't been hitting even open 3's. But it's pretty much the kiss of death since defenders get well set and anticipate his drives.
| mhan00 wrote: | Teams aren’t worried about Kuzma from behind the arc anymore. He tried to head fake close outs a ton of times tonight and not once did a Grizzly player even pretend to be worried about his shot. A big part of his offense in previous seasons was him attacking close outs and getting penetration that way, but he’s just not getting that anymore because teams don’t seem to care if he shoots it.
Some good effort on defense, but not great. His post game against smaller players is a joke right now. And please work on your damn fts. He’s been so bad at the line for the past few games. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma is a different player when he has free reign to shoot and be the team's 2nd option, vs being the 3rd option or guy that is trying to play team ball (even though he often fails to really play the team ball).
He would thrive in an open loose offense where there is not much thinking or execution, as much as just pace and a lot of free flowing offense.
We run a lot of halfcourt and execution sets, and a lot of pound the ball stuff, and I do not think Kuzma fits in with that, all that well.
But more than anything, his 3 ball regressing again, really is sad to see. He was supposed to have been a better shooter this year, but actually his numbers have gotten worse. |
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KingKobe20
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| There were moments during his first couple seasons where I thought this guy was gonna be worth the max when his rookie deal runs out.......... |
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PayasoLoco
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Kuzma is a different player when he has free reign to shoot and be the team's 2nd option, vs being the 3rd option or guy that is trying to play team ball (even though he often fails to really play the team ball).
He would thrive in an open loose offense where there is not much thinking or execution, as much as just pace and a lot of free flowing offense.
We run a lot of halfcourt and execution sets, and a lot of pound the ball stuff, and I do not think Kuzma fits in with that, all that well.
But more than anything, his 3 ball regressing again, really is sad to see. He was supposed to have been a better shooter this year, but actually his numbers have gotten worse. |
So he is best suited for a lottery team that has no structure? |
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