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BlueNGold
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Kuz is a good energy guy, but I have a couple serious concerns with him:
1. Basketball IQ
2. Hilariously terrible ball-handling skills. Many passes to him yesterday ended looking like he was wearing oven mitts. |
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cannga11
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| BlueNGold wrote: | Kuz is a good energy guy, but I have a couple serious concerns with him:
1. Basketball IQ
2. Hilariously terrible ball-handling skills. Many passes to him yesterday ended looking like he was wearing oven mitts. |
I still have hope that Kuz will get better. I wonder what it is about Kuz that annoys so many people with the "eye test," whereas his stats are likely not THAT bad right?
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BlueNGold
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Joined: 21 Jun 2018
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| cannga11 wrote: | | BlueNGold wrote: | Kuz is a good energy guy, but I have a couple serious concerns with him:
1. Basketball IQ
2. Hilariously terrible ball-handling skills. Many passes to him yesterday ended looking like he was wearing oven mitts. |
I still have hope that Kuz will get better. I wonder what it is about Kuz that annoys so many people with the "eye test," whereas his stats are likely not THAT bad right? |
Bonehead plays and inconsistency.
As an example, in the Portland game, in 3 straight Laker possessions from 10:29 to 9:29, Kuzma chucked 3's and missed them all. On the other end, Portland put 5 points on us. We ended up losing by 7, so those three totally empty possessions ended up killing us.
Oh, and another detail, WE WERE AHEAD! Bonehead plays.
Last edited by BlueNGold on Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| cannga11 wrote: | | BlueNGold wrote: | Kuz is a good energy guy, but I have a couple serious concerns with him:
1. Basketball IQ
2. Hilariously terrible ball-handling skills. Many passes to him yesterday ended looking like he was wearing oven mitts. |
I still have hope that Kuz will get better. I wonder what it is about Kuz that annoys so many people with the "eye test," whereas his stats are likely not THAT bad right? |
Overall, his stats would categorize him as an average or slightly-below-average NBA player.
Statistically, his rookie season is still probably his best. |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 4570
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I can't stand when Kuz is in. He's just not that good nor does he have good iq. He is serviceable, and pretty cheap; he also seems to try, so that's good. But man, when I be watching him play, I be wanting to trade him. I know we can't, it's just a thought that comes in my head. |
At this point I've accepted him for what he is: an athletic tweener who fits well in the current NBA landscape. He can play the 2,3, & 4 on a reasonable level.
He is improving. His defense and blocks come to mind, but he will never be the brightest bulb. Basketball geniuses like LeBron or Rondo are the type of guys he'll excel playing with.
Btw, I surely do see why some would want to trade him. His game is not for everyone. |
I think my biggest problem with him (outside of his iq) is he thinks he's better than he is. I admire confidence, but we also have to understand our ability. He is getting better on defense. That is true and that's some thing I like to see because it shows he is still working to improve his game. Also, he's better at moving the ball and making the extra pass. |
Yep, that's true. I will say that you'll always have a problem with him if that's your biggest problem because he does play with a kind of arrogance. Kind of another Tyler Herro smirk like vibe. However, there is news on the positive side.
Our mod, Mike, recently posted that the lineup that has the best, if not near the best plus/minus rating is LeBron, AD, Gasol, Schroder & Kuz. That's probably because 3/5 of that lineup, LeBron, AD, and Gasol, are super intelligent players.
And Schroder, the fourth in that lineup, is smart. Surround Kuz with mostly sharp guys like these and we have a very nice fourth or fifth scoring option in that lineup, who is expanding his game defensively, and blocking a few shots.The kind he learned from watching LeBron.
We also have a decent second or third scoring option periodically when the big dogs take a rest. This was the 27th pick in the draft. I think that's the big picture view of the FO and why an extension was reached. |
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RashardA
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Joined: 09 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: |
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If Kuz didnt play with confidence and a self belief he never would have made it to the league, much less get extended beyond his rookie deal by a team coming off a championship he helped to win.
I feel the exact opposite that many Lakers fans feel about Kuz.
I have tremendous respect for any player who has come from nothing and had to earn everything.
Kuz has had to fight for his and he is still here.
Players who come into the league and are anointed as saviors before doing or proving anything are not my cup of tea.
I like players who are workers, fearless and confident.
That's Kuz.
He has far exceeded ANY AND ALL expectations he had coming into this league.
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KBandKB
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Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | If Kuz didnt play with confidence and a self belief he never would have made it to the league, much less get extended beyond his rookie deal by a team coming off a championship he helped to win.
I feel the exact opposite that many Lakers fans feel about Kuz.
I have tremendous respect for any player who has come from nothing and had to earn everything.
Kuz has had to fight for his and he is still here.
Players who come into the league and are anointed as saviors before doing or proving anything are not my cup of tea.
I like players who are workers, fearless and confident.
That's Kuz.
He has far exceeded ANY AND ALL expectations he had coming into this league. |
Yeah people forget he’s a 27th pick. He wasn’t supposed to be a rotation player let alone a key player on a championship team.
If he goes to a bad team, he easily scores 17-20 pts per game. But I’ll gladly take the 10-15 he gives us a night with the ability to spread the floor, hit some shots, defend with his length, make great cuts to the basket, and play multiple positions. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| cannga11 wrote: | | BlueNGold wrote: | Kuz is a good energy guy, but I have a couple serious concerns with him:
1. Basketball IQ
2. Hilariously terrible ball-handling skills. Many passes to him yesterday ended looking like he was wearing oven mitts. |
I still have hope that Kuz will get better. I wonder what it is about Kuz that annoys so many people with the "eye test," whereas his stats are likely not THAT bad right? |
It all comes down to his below average 3-ball after such a promising start. If he still shot about 36-37% from 3 like he did his rookie year along with the improvements in his game that he has made over the years, he'd have far fewer criticisms imo.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I am amazed at Kuz on one thing. He actually is playing the Danny Green role so well. He is stepping into shots and playing just like an off the ball shooting wing. Pretty cool man. I never thought Kuz would be this player, and he is. He is shooting 40+% from 3, and he is really money on movement catch and shoot.
His IQ and inconsistency is still what it is, but that is why he is a 10M signing, and not a 20M guy, If Kuz really had the IQ and consistency, we would have a star, because he has the talent to be a 18-20 point, 2-way guy, each night if he had a better IQ (on a contending team, not a rebuilding team with no stars).
Now on the flip, a guy like that probably does not accept the role Kuz is, and I appreciate for all his flaws, he is willing to come off the bench, work on his game to adjust to his role. A year ago, Kuz was god awful anytime we ran plays for him in the Danny Green role. Now, I can not believe it, he actually is reliable, all preseason and until now, I am seeing him consistently move and find his shots within the offense like a SG. I do not ask and yell for Kuz to cut or move the ball all the time. I actually want him taking those shots like I want Wesley, or Danny Green in the past to take those shots. He really developed his game a bit in this regard, and plays more winning basketball. Props are deserved. Just do not know if he will ever get the IQ needed ...... |
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sonic the laker
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Joined: 06 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of people are hyper critical of Kuz, because he's "the one who survived", and the preordained "3rd option". He had a VERY promising start, as a rookie, in comparison to his second round draft selection. After that, it was a bungled mess, imo. His first stint with LeBron, before AD, saw him scoring a lot in off ball action. Once AD came, the coaching staff tried to mold Kuz as a one-on-one 3rd scoring option, off the bench. It didn't work, because that's not Kuz's strength. Never was. That did a lot to kill his game, and confidence. It also garnered him a lot f hate, from a lot of Lakers fans, unfortunately.
This season, I'm happy to see the team putting Kuz in more quick hit scoring actions, involving player/ball movement. Or, simple post ups. The more Kuz limits his ball handling, the more his efficiency rises. And, his decision making has improved, as well. Instead of forcing shots, he's moving the ball, and making good reads to open teammates.
So far this season, even with the up and down shooting, I'm liking what I'm seeing from Kuz.
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Nash Vegas
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Everything Kuz does is magnified 100x.
I get it, I see it in my own family. I was watching the last game with my dad and the moment Kuz missed a shot, it was a layup, my dad blurted out "he sucks". I then reminded my dad that Kuz scored 9 points with 3 straight buckets just a few mins ago. His response, "oh yeah? guess I forgot about it". But each Kuz brick he will make a groan.
But when AD makes his 1st basket, my dad is all "nice game AD", so I reminded my dad that AD went 0-5 before making his first basket, and my dad is just like "really? who would've thought?"
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hype
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | Everything Kuz does is magnified 100x.
I get it, I see it in my own family. I was watching the last game with my dad and the moment Kuz missed a shot, it was a layup, my dad blurted out "he sucks". I then reminded my dad that Kuz scored 9 points with 3 straight buckets just a few mins ago. His response, "oh yeah? guess I forgot about it". But each Kuz brick he will make a groan.
But when AD makes his 1st basket, my dad is all "nice game AD", so I reminded my dad that AD went 0-5 before making his first basket, and my dad is just like "really? who would've thought?" |
Spot on, I notice the exact same thing and if i'm being honest that was me for a few years until the beginning of the bubble last year.
It's extremely clear he is working hard on improving all facets of his game and trying to find his role and exceed in it. Anytime you let him play free in the starting lineup he gets you 20+ . The Lakers know and he even knows that can't happen on this team though and he has made some massive improvements on both ends.. He has plenty to work on but he's still a great value even with his newer contract. Not to mention you never hear any complaining or frustration from him.
Him and KCP both have a new sense of confidence I didn't see in them before the Championship at least on a consistent basis. His activity on the boards has been a great surprise along with his much improved passing ability this season. The defense is steadily improving as well.
Most of the things people are complaining about recently, if he were to correct them at all he'd be easily getting paid in the 20 million range considering how crazy free agency has been recently and how young he still is.
Just be happy we have a great young role player who is still making consistent improvements while also being able to fill in for anyone missing from the starting lineup from 2-4 without disrupting anything. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8452
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I can't stand when Kuz is in. He's just not that good nor does he have good iq. He is serviceable, and pretty cheap; he also seems to try, so that's good. But man, when I be watching him play, I be wanting to trade him. I know we can't, it's just a thought that comes in my head. |
At this point I've accepted him for what he is: an athletic tweener who fits well in the current NBA landscape. He can play the 2,3, & 4 on a reasonable level.
He is improving. His defense and blocks come to mind, but he will never be the brightest bulb. Basketball geniuses like LeBron or Rondo are the type of guys he'll excel playing with.
Btw, I surely do see why some would want to trade him. His game is not for everyone. |
I think my biggest problem with him (outside of his iq) is he thinks he's better than he is. I admire confidence, but we also have to understand our ability. He is getting better on defense. That is true and that's some thing I like to see because it shows he is still working to improve his game. Also, he's better at moving the ball and making the extra pass. |
Yep, that's true. I will say that you'll always have a problem with him if that's your biggest problem because he does play with a kind of arrogance. Kind of another Tyler Herro smirk like vibe. However, there is news on the positive side.
Our mod, Mike, recently posted that the lineup that has the best, if not near the best plus/minus rating is LeBron, AD, Gasol, Schroder & Kuz. That's probably because 3/5 of that lineup, LeBron, AD, and Gasol, are super intelligent players.
And Schroder, the fourth in that lineup, is smart. Surround Kuz with mostly sharp guys like these and we have a very nice fourth or fifth scoring option in that lineup, who is expanding his game defensively, and blocking a few shots.The kind he learned from watching LeBron.
We also have a decent second or third scoring option periodically when the big dogs take a rest. This was the 27th pick in the draft. I think that's the big picture view of the FO and why an extension was reached. |
I like what the FO have been doing.
I like Kuz in that line up because he is tamed and I do like the IQ of Bron, Gasol, and AD. Especially Bron and Gasol. I feel kuz makes smarter decisions under their leadership. He also understands who's #1a and #1b, and the offense goes through them. I do wanna see a large sample size of the line up with Wes Johnson starting, in place of Kuz. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | I can't stand when Kuz is in. He's just not that good nor does he have good iq. He is serviceable, and pretty cheap; he also seems to try, so that's good. But man, when I be watching him play, I be wanting to trade him. I know we can't, it's just a thought that comes in my head. |
At this point I've accepted him for what he is: an athletic tweener who fits well in the current NBA landscape. He can play the 2,3, & 4 on a reasonable level.
He is improving. His defense and blocks come to mind, but he will never be the brightest bulb. Basketball geniuses like LeBron or Rondo are the type of guys he'll excel playing with.
Btw, I surely do see why some would want to trade him. His game is not for everyone. |
I think my biggest problem with him (outside of his iq) is he thinks he's better than he is. I admire confidence, but we also have to understand our ability. He is getting better on defense. That is true and that's some thing I like to see because it shows he is still working to improve his game. Also, he's better at moving the ball and making the extra pass. |
Yep, that's true. I will say that you'll always have a problem with him if that's your biggest problem because he does play with a kind of arrogance. Kind of another Tyler Herro smirk like vibe. However, there is news on the positive side.
Our mod, Mike, recently posted that the lineup that has the best, if not near the best plus/minus rating is LeBron, AD, Gasol, Schroder & Kuz. That's probably because 3/5 of that lineup, LeBron, AD, and Gasol, are super intelligent players.
And Schroder, the fourth in that lineup, is smart. Surround Kuz with mostly sharp guys like these and we have a very nice fourth or fifth scoring option in that lineup, who is expanding his game defensively, and blocking a few shots.The kind he learned from watching LeBron.
We also have a decent second or third scoring option periodically when the big dogs take a rest. This was the 27th pick in the draft. I think that's the big picture view of the FO and why an extension was reached. |
I like what the FO have been doing.
I like Kuz in that line up because he is tamed and I do like the IQ of Bron, Gasol, and AD. Especially Bron and Gasol. I feel kuz makes smarter decisions under their leadership. He also understands who's #1a and #1b, and the offense goes through them. I do wanna see a large sample size of the line up with Wes MATTHEWS starting, in place of Kuz. |
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cannga11
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 347
Location: Palos Verdes
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | Everything Kuz does is magnified 100x.
I get it, I see it in my own family. I was watching the last game with my dad and the moment Kuz missed a shot, it was a layup, my dad blurted out "he sucks". I then reminded my dad that Kuz scored 9 points with 3 straight buckets just a few mins ago. His response, "oh yeah? guess I forgot about it". But each Kuz brick he will make a groan.
But when AD makes his 1st basket, my dad is all "nice game AD", so I reminded my dad that AD went 0-5 before making his first basket, and my dad is just like "really? who would've thought?" |
LOL so true and I am sure I'm guilty. Let's face it, rightly or wrongly Kuz ANNOYS people. Something he does gives the idea that he's a space cadet or brain dead sometimes. Eye test, no stat (I understand his stat is average/slightly below average for NBA players?) to back it up.
I appreciate what he does for cheap and hope he'll get better.
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| This guy is a legit 6th MOY candidate locked for 3 years, happy about this |
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cannga11
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Palos Verdes
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I am amazed at Kuz on one thing. He actually is playing the Danny Green role so well. He is stepping into shots and playing just like an off the ball shooting wing. Pretty cool man. I never thought Kuz would be this player, and he is. He is shooting 40+% from 3, and he is really money on movement catch and shoot.
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Good analysis as always. I believe Robert Horry pointed out that he does more movement 3 (shoot on the fly, like Lou Will) than any other on the Lakers. Versus Green or AD or LBJ for example.
My take from Horry's comment is that Kuz is not good enough of a shooter to be doing this. Once in a while it works (like a few days ago), otherwise it makes him look like an out of control chucker.
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: |
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If Kuz keeps his current level of play on offense (no less improves), I have no problems with him on offense.
I think he's playing a little worse defensively this season. To be fair, a big part of that is a team thing - the team hasn't come close to integrating the new players on D in terms of understanding schemes. It also doesn't help that AD/LBJ are taking a lot of defensive plays off and, further, that AC (our defensive energy guy) has been out. In sum, what may appear as some defensive regression by Kuz can also be blamed, to a fair extent, on team wide issues. Still, I've noticed his individual D slipping as well, so a fair amount is still on him.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma's ceiling is as a 6th man role player.
I think the moment more people accept that about him instead of the "If the Lakers only made him a starter he'd average 20 a game!!!" mentality, it probably wouldn't be an issue.
If people saw Kuzma is the same vein as they did KCP(and nobody is coming in screaming that KCP would average 20 if he was a starter or something) then people know what to expect.
The majority of Kuzma's hate stems from the fact that he's a 6th man role player at his best, but some of his fans still act like he'd be a star if he started and will figure everything out eventually after years and years of him 'not figuring it out'.
Kuzma is who he is, that's just how it is as this point. He's good for the value he gives us vs what we're paying him and he isn't even the 4th offensive option on this team. So no biggie.
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Lonzo-Lite
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Kuz 5 points on 5 shots, 7 rebounds, played solid D and should’ve even been credited a block.
Team high +21
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drae
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Kuz 5 points on 5 shots, 7 rebounds, played solid D and should’ve even been credited a block.
Team high +21 |
I'll take it
Solid role player |
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KBandKB
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Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of our offense tonight was stagnant and all iso/pnr
Would be great if coaching staff could call for more cuts to the basket and have Gasol be the initiator at the top. That would allow Kuz to get more scoring in. |
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RashardA
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Kuz's maturation as a player truly has been off the charts.
He refuses to force anything and its really surprising and beautiful to see.
There are times im yelling for him to be more aggressive offensively but he continues to play the right way.
That is why he was a team high +21 while only scoring 5 points.
A classic AC type of game.
Impacting in other ways outside of scoring.
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| RashardA wrote: | | Kuz's maturation as a player truly has been off the charts. |
He has come a long way for sure. Imo his extension takes the pressure off and age can play a team game.
He showed playmaking flashes last season, but he’s been pretty consistent this season. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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He's gracefully accepting the role player niche/status. More poise and less forcing the issue. I like what he's contributing.
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