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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
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NBALakerLegends
Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 1026
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Stay the course. Keep core and sign another Max. Best possible position we could be in. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
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Andre2K
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 12199
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersibleed wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Call me crazy, but I like Kuz alone more than Butler at this point in their careers. |
Crazy |
There is one CRAZY poster in this thread!..lol
I dont want Jimmy unless he comes FREE. I dont want to trade any of our 4 young core for Jimmy. Kuz might not be better than Butler, but talk to me after 50 games! |
Kuz still won’t be better than Butler after 50 games lol
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My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
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Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc  |
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lakersibleed
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NBALakerLegends wrote: | | Stay the course. Keep core and sign another Max. Best possible position we could be in. |
Yep.... Would be absolutely be Horrible GMing if the Lakers Traded any of the young core at this point... and especially for guys that are rumored to want to join the Lakers in the summer and for guys who are not even under contract, meaning they could decide to leave next summer too, which would mean we gave away our young pieces for nothing 
You have to see what the young guys can do this year before you think about trading any one of them!
Best possible scenario for sure... We putting together a Dynasty Yaw! |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersibleed wrote: | | NBALakerLegends wrote: | | Stay the course. Keep core and sign another Max. Best possible position we could be in. |
Yep.... Would be absolutely be Horrible GMing if the Lakers Traded any of the young core at this point... and especially for guys that are rumored to want to join the Lakers in the summer and for guys who are not even under contract, meaning they could decide to leave next summer too, which would mean we gave away our young pieces for nothing
You have to see what the young guys can do this year before you think about trading any one of them!
Best possible scenario for sure... We putting together a Dynasty Yaw! |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
The problem is in your assumption of what they will be this coming year. |
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Yong
Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 9024
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
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GoldenThroat
Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector. Sure, guys get better as they get older, but they show what type of player they are early on. A player that Synergy didn't credit with a single 3-pointer off of a screen last year being able to come off of wide pindowns & staggers like KCP or Nick Young did the two years before seems very unlikely. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma and KCP should start. BI and Hart off the bench leading the second unit. I believe Rondo will start early in the season until Zo is back to bball shape and playing well.
Starters:
Rondo
KCP
Lebron
Kuzma
Javale
Second unit:
Zo
Hart
BI
Beasley
Zubac
I think later in the season we'll see Svi taking minutes from Beasley and Stephenson. Or at least I am hoping he progresses to that point because he has potential for elite 3D ability. |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector. Sure, guys get better as they get older, but they show what type of player they are early on. A player that Synergy didn't credit with a single 3-pointer off of a screen last year being able to come off of wide pindowns & staggers like KCP or Nick Young did the two years before seems very unlikely. |
"This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector."
My point in regards to Kuzma and defense was in reference to the belief by many that he's a poor defender, that has nothing to do with being a rim protector. I don't hear people complaining about him not being a rim protector. Randle wasn't much of a rim protector, with that being said his defense was excellent, which wasn't always the case.
In regards to pindowns.. any number of players on the floor can have that play ran for them, it doesn't have to be the 2. Ingram or Kuz can compensate in other areas as well. |
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defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39537
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector. Sure, guys get better as they get older, but they show what type of player they are early on. A player that Synergy didn't credit with a single 3-pointer off of a screen last year being able to come off of wide pindowns & staggers like KCP or Nick Young did the two years before seems very unlikely. |
"This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector."
My point in regards to Kuzma and defense was in reference to the belief by many that he's a poor defender, that has nothing to do with being a rim protector. I don't hear people complaining about him not being a rim protector. Randle wasn't much of a rim protector, with that being said his defense was excellent, which wasn't always the case.
In regards to pindowns.. any number of players on the floor can have that play ran for them, it doesn't have to be the 2. Ingram or Kuz can compensate in other areas as well. |
Just wondering how a power forward that can't defend the rim and isn't a good team defender and isn't a good man defender not a bad defender? Should the coaches just ignore that? |
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Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5358
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Kuz gonna be in the running for 6 man of the year.
I don’t see him starting over BI who I think will get to 20ppg this year |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd start Kuz and Ingram.. I also wouldn't trade any of our youth core for Butler.
Ingram can be just as effective as any of our other shooting guards at the 2. Which gives us the versatility needed to have Kuz out there with him. |
Not if you want to be able to run actions for shooters off of screens. |
This isn't a problem that I believe is exclusive to you, many here and in our fanbase do it.
What they were, is not what they will always be. You presume Ingram and Kuz can't run cross action based on last year. The same way people presume Kuz will be the same defender he was last season. |
This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector. Sure, guys get better as they get older, but they show what type of player they are early on. A player that Synergy didn't credit with a single 3-pointer off of a screen last year being able to come off of wide pindowns & staggers like KCP or Nick Young did the two years before seems very unlikely. |
"This isn't analogous to Kuzma becoming a better defender, this is analogous to Kuzma becoming a great rim protector."
My point in regards to Kuzma and defense was in reference to the belief by many that he's a poor defender, that has nothing to do with being a rim protector. I don't hear people complaining about him not being a rim protector. Randle wasn't much of a rim protector, with that being said his defense was excellent, which wasn't always the case.
In regards to pindowns.. any number of players on the floor can have that play ran for them, it doesn't have to be the 2. Ingram or Kuz can compensate in other areas as well. |
Just wondering how a power forward that can't defend the rim and isn't a good team defender and isn't a good man defender not a bad defender? Should the coaches just ignore that? |
Why are you wondering?? I didn't say he was a good defender. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
Some people can’t roll with a win at all cost attitude. Kobe suffered from that, as has Westbrook.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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NotHype
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 376
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
I wouldn’t say Butler is toxic... he is just a hard-nosed player... |
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oldlakerfan
Star Player
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 2146
Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| NotHype wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
I wouldn’t say Butler is toxic... he is just a hard-nosed player... |
Lakers will not be making any trades of significance until after Dec 1st. By Dec 1st we should have a good idea about how much improvement our youth has made which will give us a much better idea of the value each one has.
I think the only significant deals that might me made before the trade deadline are for KL if Toronto decides it is to their benefit to trade KL. The other outside chance would be AD in NO if they aren't going anywhere and are looking to maximize the value the will receive.
The other thing I can see happening is that we trade one of the Vets if they are out of the rotation. |
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jg77
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Was listening to ESPNLA this morning and they said Kuz has doing film work with Rondo (somewhat mentioned in Rondo's thread) but Kuz has been focused on becoming a better defender and how to position himself. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jg77 wrote: | | Was listening to ESPNLA this morning and they said Kuz has doing film work with Rondo (somewhat mentioned in Rondo's thread) but Kuz has been focused on becoming a better defender and how to position himself. |
He’s got the physical tools to be a solid defender. I’m skeptical of guys who played a lot of college ball and come into the league as bad defenders but it would be HUGE for the Lakers if he became even an average defender. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jg77 wrote: | | Was listening to ESPNLA this morning and they said Kuz has doing film work with Rondo (somewhat mentioned in Rondo's thread) but Kuz has been focused on becoming a better defender and how to position himself. |
Yeah, Pelinka zeroed in on that during the "Evening With The Lakers" broadcast a couple of weeks ago. It's great to hear.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
Some people can’t roll with a win at all cost attitude. Kobe suffered from that, as has Westbrook. |
Problem is Butler hasn't done all that much winning to warrant such an attitude. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | jg77 wrote: | | Was listening to ESPNLA this morning and they said Kuz has doing film work with Rondo (somewhat mentioned in Rondo's thread) but Kuz has been focused on becoming a better defender and how to position himself. |
He’s got the physical tools to be a solid defender. I’m skeptical of guys who played a lot of college ball and come into the league as bad defenders but it would be HUGE for the Lakers if he became even an average defender. |
My eye test thought that he improved as the season progressed
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | I don't fancy Butler over either Ingram or Kuz to be honest. His attitude is toxic af. |
Some people can’t roll with a win at all cost attitude. Kobe suffered from that, as has Westbrook. |
Problem is Butler hasn't done all that much winning to warrant such an attitude. |
It isn’t learned behavior, it is either inside a player or not.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | jg77 wrote: | | Was listening to ESPNLA this morning and they said Kuz has doing film work with Rondo (somewhat mentioned in Rondo's thread) but Kuz has been focused on becoming a better defender and how to position himself. |
He’s got the physical tools to be a solid defender. I’m skeptical of guys who played a lot of college ball and come into the league as bad defenders but it would be HUGE for the Lakers if he became even an average defender. |
My eye test thought that he improved as the season progressed |
I agree but not to the extent that many people do. He seemed to improve his awareness and off ball D IMO(which is very important) but still avoided contact and physical play especially around the basket, and struggled to keep guys in front of him. He’s got a shot to improve defensively and hopefully he does. |
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