OFFICIAL KYLE got traded for westbrook KUZMA THREAD
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


Waaaay too much tribalism. Huge fan of Kuz and a self admitted Ingramer, but be real, they both have shortcomings they need to improve upon moving forward. They are both, in my opinion, long term investments. Magic is the only one they need to impress to don the colors.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


Waaaay too much tribalism. Huge fan of Kuz and a self admitted Ingramer, but be real, they both have shortcomings they need to improve upon moving forward. They are both, in my opinion, long term investments. Magic is the only one they need to impress to dawn the colors.


All of our young guys have glaring holes:

Lonzo - trainwreck offensively at times due to a lack of skill

BI - ditto, but this has more to do with his lack of offensive awareness but still needs major improvement in terms of skill development

Kuz - poor defensive fundamentals and awareness

Hart - looks absolutely lost on offense when he isn't shooting 3s or bulldozing his way to the basket

However, those 4 guys also have very unique strengths that outweigh their flaws:

Lonzo - greater overall defender with excellent court vision; low usage allows him to fit with any superstar

BI - freakish length defensively and still a lot of untapped offensive potential

Kuz - highly refined offensive game and great ability to score off the ball

Hart - deadly with the catch and shoot 3-ball and relentless rim attacker coupled with the ability to defend much bigger players

In many ways, it feels like we're just a competent player development coach away from unlocking the true potential of these 4 guys.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject:

€H£M£$TR¥ wrote:
Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


Waaaay too much tribalism. Huge fan of Kuz and a self admitted Ingramer, but be real, they both have shortcomings they need to improve upon moving forward. They are both, in my opinion, long term investments. Magic is the only one they need to impress to don the colors.


I don't get it..I like the whole team...even the G league...not a Bob Sacre in the lot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Who starts is more of a non issue since Rondo is out. Assuming Luke does the right thing. Which in my opinion is to take Ingram out early so he can run point with the second unit.

I've always wanted Kuz, and Ingram starting.. They've proven it works, our record supports this position.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.


DeRozan was getting any shots he wanted against Hart without any screen. Not that Hart was terrible defender. It’s asking a lot for a 2nd year player. Kuz will be at least decent defensively, he’s putting a lot effort there. he’s just not reading the plays. I think Lebron have already made his voice about displeasure on playing the 4 that’s why we are sticking with Kuz.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.


You’re the one insinuating that people who want to bring Ingram off the bench don’t pay attention to defense. Nobody is insinuating that people who wanna start Ingram don’t pay attention to offense. That’s my point. You’re attempting to make the group who wants Ingram to the bench isn’t looking at the whole picture while the people who want him to start are. See the bolded in you’re previous post as evidence.

Attempt to poke holes in the points being made instead of the credibility of the posters making them.

By the way, the defensive rating of the 5 man lineup of Zo/Hart/LeBron/Kuz/McGee is very good regardless of how many points were scored in those games. Yes it’s a small sample size, which is why they should’ve been given a longer opportunity to prove or disprove their abilities.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


Exactly! It's no surprise a dude with the username Ingram wants to bench Kuz. Even though he's flip flopped on BI like 100x since the season started
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject:

Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


It’s very true on both sides. I’m sick of it but it’s also really funny

They’re both lakers lol
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject:

Rather than focusing on just offense, or just defense, it would be most wise to look at net production.

It wouldn't matter if you're the worst defender on the team if you're the best offensive player in the league.

And it wouldn't matter if you're the worst offensive player on the team if you're the league's best defender.

In the end, it's about NET production and also how the team collectively fares fr a given player on the court.

It's too common in today's world for people to say well if you don't agree with what I want then you don't care about [INSERT SENSITIVE ITEM HERE].
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


Exactly! It's no surprise a dude with the username Ingram wants to bench Kuz. Even though he's flip flopped on BI like 100x since the season started


yeah (bleep) me for changing my opinion on BI based on the improvements he's made after one off season rather then blindly being delusional about his abilities right????

I want to bench Kuzma because I think long term success is more sustainable with 5 guys that play both ends of the floor which is why I want Hart. Besides, if your alluding that my username aka Ingram dictates who I want to start then why would it even matter? Whether Kuzma or Hart starts doesn't change anything about Ingram since BI is already in the starting lineup.

Not everyone has hidden agendas just because we like a certain player.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.


You’re the one insinuating that people who want to bring Ingram off the bench don’t pay attention to defense. Nobody is insinuating that people who wanna start Ingram don’t pay attention to offense. That’s my point. You’re attempting to make the group who wants Ingram to the bench isn’t looking at the whole picture while the people who want him to start are. See the bolded in you’re previous post as evidence.

Attempt to poke holes in the points being made instead of the credibility of the posters making them.

By the way, the defensive rating of the 5 man lineup of Zo/Hart/LeBron/Kuz/McGee is very good regardless of how many points were scored in those games. Yes it’s a small sample size, which is why they should’ve been given a longer opportunity to prove or disprove their abilities.


Okay I understand your point, I personally don't believe that the lineup you posted would sustain the defensive success when more then 50% of their minutes came against teams other then the one whose sitting on a 3-11 record, good enough for dead last in the league.

The way you worded your original post made it seem like I'm blatantly ignoring the counter arguments but that's not the case. I just don't agree with the counter arguments and I still feel that if you take defense into account over an 82 game season it doesn't make sense to have a Kuzma and Lebron duo deal with the best perimeter player on the opposing team. I don't think we're good enough to overcome something like that over and over and over.

and regardless, I really don't feel Brandon Ingram ever gets benched. If it becomes clear he's not gonna fit with Lebron James then they're going to trade him rather then bench him and lower his trade value IMO. I personally think that if this team goes through another long slump, Hart for Kuzma is probably the change that's most likely going to be made.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.


You’re the one insinuating that people who want to bring Ingram off the bench don’t pay attention to defense. Nobody is insinuating that people who wanna start Ingram don’t pay attention to offense. That’s my point. You’re attempting to make the group who wants Ingram to the bench isn’t looking at the whole picture while the people who want him to start are. See the bolded in you’re previous post as evidence.

Attempt to poke holes in the points being made instead of the credibility of the posters making them.

By the way, the defensive rating of the 5 man lineup of Zo/Hart/LeBron/Kuz/McGee is very good regardless of how many points were scored in those games. Yes it’s a small sample size, which is why they should’ve been given a longer opportunity to prove or disprove their abilities.


Okay I understand your point, I personally don't believe that the lineup you posted would sustain the defensive success when more then 50% of their minutes came against teams other then the one whose sitting on a 3-11 record, good enough for dead last in the league.

The way you worded your original post made it seem like I'm blatantly ignoring the counter arguments but that's not the case. I just don't agree with the counter arguments and I still feel that if you take defense into account over an 82 game season it doesn't make sense to have a Kuzma and Lebron duo deal with the best perimeter player on the opposing team. I don't think we're good enough to overcome something like that over and over and over.

and regardless, I really don't feel Brandon Ingram ever gets benched. If it becomes clear he's not gonna fit with Lebron James then they're going to trade him rather then bench him and lower his trade value IMO. I personally think that if this team goes through another long slump, Hart for Kuzma is probably the change that's most likely going to be made.


Totally fair. We disagree. But let’s try and stop with the “you only care about offense” nonsense because it’s not the case. That was my point.
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LKA
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Wish Kuz could get his 3p% to the high 30s .. he would be a real problem
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PauPau
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:33 pm    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
Wish Kuz could get his 3p% to the high 30s .. he would be a real problem


Even mid would suffice. The shot looks slightly altered but that's a poor excuse.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:27 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
LKA wrote:
Wish Kuz could get his 3p% to the high 30s .. he would be a real problem


Even mid would suffice. The shot looks slightly altered but that's a poor excuse.


True indeed

Only reason I say high 30s is because i believe that would put him at allstar level , at least playing next to LeBron as the 2nd option ..
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.


You’re the one insinuating that people who want to bring Ingram off the bench don’t pay attention to defense. Nobody is insinuating that people who wanna start Ingram don’t pay attention to offense. That’s my point. You’re attempting to make the group who wants Ingram to the bench isn’t looking at the whole picture while the people who want him to start are. See the bolded in you’re previous post as evidence.

Attempt to poke holes in the points being made instead of the credibility of the posters making them.

By the way, the defensive rating of the 5 man lineup of Zo/Hart/LeBron/Kuz/McGee is very good regardless of how many points were scored in those games. Yes it’s a small sample size, which is why they should’ve been given a longer opportunity to prove or disprove their abilities.


Okay I understand your point, I personally don't believe that the lineup you posted would sustain the defensive success when more then 50% of their minutes came against teams other then the one whose sitting on a 3-11 record, good enough for dead last in the league.

The way you worded your original post made it seem like I'm blatantly ignoring the counter arguments but that's not the case. I just don't agree with the counter arguments and I still feel that if you take defense into account over an 82 game season it doesn't make sense to have a Kuzma and Lebron duo deal with the best perimeter player on the opposing team. I don't think we're good enough to overcome something like that over and over and over.

and regardless, I really don't feel Brandon Ingram ever gets benched. If it becomes clear he's not gonna fit with Lebron James then they're going to trade him rather then bench him and lower his trade value IMO. I personally think that if this team goes through another long slump, Hart for Kuzma is probably the change that's most likely going to be made.


Totally fair. We disagree. But let’s try and stop with the “you only care about offense” nonsense because it’s not the case. That was my point.


Taking offense and defense into account. There's nothing Kuzma is doing this season significantly better than Ingram, and if we're being completely honest here, he's shooting far worse.

Kuzma is shooting 29% from three this year thus far. So he doesn't have that advantage over Ingram. He's a high volume microwave kind of player who can run hot and cold.

He gets more to the basket and cut opportunities given the nature of the position he's playing. But if LeBron is supposed to be out there with 'floor spacers' than Kuzma is currently shooting 29% from three on 5 a game.

In other words, if you want floor spacers around LeBron, Kuzma should be coming off the bench, Ingram should be moved to his natural position at the 3, and Josh Hart whom has been shooting 42% from three on more attempts per game than Kuzma.

So let's look at the three point shooting of that lineup

Lonzo Ball 38% from three
Josh Hart 42% from three
Brandon Ingram 35% from three (low volume)
LeBron James 35% from three (settling too much for it)
JaVale McGee (not his thing)

On top of that you have your best defenders on the floor as well to start games.

The reason you do that is because it's been stated (by you) that Kuzma does better when someone sets up the offense for him.

That's why being on the bench with Rondo would fit him well. Sadly Rondo won't be available for another 3-5 weeks.

You also say the lineup of Lonzo/Hart/LeBron/Kuzma/McGee is good defensively together in a VERY small sample size.

Considering that Kuzma is the weakest defender in that lineup, and Ingram is one of the stronger defemders on this team you could surmise in theory that the defense with Ingram in that lineup instead of Kuzma would be stronger, couldn't you?


As far as the opinion that people that want Ingram benched are only paying attention to offense. I disagree. But at the same time, I think a lot of people are letting slide not just how poor Kuzma has been defensively but ARE indeed ignoring how bad Kuzma has been from three this season.

If Kuzma doesn't have the three point advantage (currently) over Ingram, than there's no reason Kuzma should have the minutes or start priority over him. Because he can't defend as well as Ingram on top of that.

So as it stands, if you're benching anyone between Ingram and Kuzma, it's Kuzma. Because Kuzma is one of the team's worst defenders, and he's thus far shooting 29% from three so that isn't even an advantage right now over what Ingram is bringing.

So that is why you bench Kuzma if you have to decide between he and Ingram. If Kuzma was shooting 38-40% from three, there'd be more of an argument against it, but he's shooting 29% and terrible defensively. So if it's Ingram or Kuz that gets benched, it should be Kuz for all intents and purposes.

Both are a benefit to have on the team though, and it shouldn't become tribal warfare. You'd rather have them both on your team than not.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject:

Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


his fans spent the half of last season calling him rashard lewis before deciding (bleep) it, he’s klay thompson. might’ve annoyed some folks.
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
Team of the 80's wrote:
epak wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
The Ingramers love to (bleep) on Kuz. Relax, with Rondo hurt your boy BI will have the ball in his hands plenty.


Geez.
Its true. As soon as Kuz has a bad game out comes the knives.


his fans spent the half of last season calling him rashard lewis before deciding (bleep) it, he’s klay thompson. might’ve annoyed some folks.


He has the chance to become either. It's only his second year.

I don't know why we have to have a civil war going on.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
1ngr4m wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
al242 wrote:
Kuzma is legit the worst defensive player on the team, makes Lebron look like Kawhi


You make the worst posts. Always hating on Kuz. Come up with some new material.


He's not lying, you're the exact same in the opposite direction. Always talking about benching Ingram when in reality Kuzma gets benched first cause Luke doesn't wanna have to coach a disaster offensive starting group.


Regardless of who’s better, it would be wise to bench the player who plays better without LeBron and can play point instead of the one who needs guys to set him up.


It's easy to see offense as a fan, the coaching staff sees both ends of the floor which for some reason half of this board just refuses to acknowledge.

Like we all know Kuzma is by far the worst defender on the team, we know that he's one of the worst defenders in the league getting more then 30 minutes per game period. We know that Lebron James is coasting at this point and doesn't really go hard on defense.

And you guys want these two to be guarding the starting forwards in this league for an 82 game regular season? I swear defense only matters when its Lonzo/Hart or some shi for for some of you guys.

Our offense isn't the problem, Lebron can carry the offense even at 34. Defense will be the problem if you have one of these two matching up with the best wing night in and night out.


I’ve walked you through this before but here we go again. Our defense wasn’t a problem when Hart replaced Ingram in the starting lineup either. Our second unit lacks length, Ingram helps that. Our second unit lacks playmaking(especially with Rondo out), Ingram helps that. Kuzma benefits greatly from LeBron, Ingram is hindered(at least so far) by sharing the court with him.

You know why people feel this way. You know people aren’t ignoring defense when they advocate this move. There are other factors at play. Disagree, that’s your right but stop acting like the only people advocating Ingram to the bench don’t recognize defense. It’s completely false, and that has been explained to you numerous times. So please, for the sake of this board, retain this information for once.



Man (bleep) out of here with that passive agressiveness, I keep bringing it up because I DISAGREE with your assessment on how much it effects the defensive end. You're acting like it's been explained with some infallible argument where there's no more argument on the subject or something. I'll continue to bring it up every time the topic comes up because it's called having a different opinion.

The only explanation I've been getting is a two game sample size where we won both games because of our offensive inputs and not defense. In one of those games we gave up 113 points to the Suns on 50%. The defensive numbers for both those games averaged out to be like 23/30 or something (I'd pull up my post but it's too much work).

Two game sample size doesn't make anything completely false, if you have such a problem with my opinion then here's a suggestion: don't reply to me. But don't insult me acting like it's because I can't comprehend what you're trying to say.

and love how you say "for the sake of this board" like this board isn't completely split up on their opinions of Kuzma and Ingram starting.


You’re the one insinuating that people who want to bring Ingram off the bench don’t pay attention to defense. Nobody is insinuating that people who wanna start Ingram don’t pay attention to offense. That’s my point. You’re attempting to make the group who wants Ingram to the bench isn’t looking at the whole picture while the people who want him to start are. See the bolded in you’re previous post as evidence.

Attempt to poke holes in the points being made instead of the credibility of the posters making them.

By the way, the defensive rating of the 5 man lineup of Zo/Hart/LeBron/Kuz/McGee is very good regardless of how many points were scored in those games. Yes it’s a small sample size, which is why they should’ve been given a longer opportunity to prove or disprove their abilities.


Okay I understand your point, I personally don't believe that the lineup you posted would sustain the defensive success when more then 50% of their minutes came against teams other then the one whose sitting on a 3-11 record, good enough for dead last in the league.

The way you worded your original post made it seem like I'm blatantly ignoring the counter arguments but that's not the case. I just don't agree with the counter arguments and I still feel that if you take defense into account over an 82 game season it doesn't make sense to have a Kuzma and Lebron duo deal with the best perimeter player on the opposing team. I don't think we're good enough to overcome something like that over and over and over.

and regardless, I really don't feel Brandon Ingram ever gets benched. If it becomes clear he's not gonna fit with Lebron James then they're going to trade him rather then bench him and lower his trade value IMO. I personally think that if this team goes through another long slump, Hart for Kuzma is probably the change that's most likely going to be made.


Totally fair. We disagree. But let’s try and stop with the “you only care about offense” nonsense because it’s not the case. That was my point.


Taking offense and defense into account. There's nothing Kuzma is doing this season significantly better than Ingram, and if we're being completely honest here, he's shooting far worse.

Kuzma is shooting 29% from three this year thus far. So he doesn't have that advantage over Ingram. He's a high volume microwave kind of player who can run hot and cold.

He gets more to the basket and cut opportunities given the nature of the position he's playing. But if LeBron is supposed to be out there with 'floor spacers' than Kuzma is currently shooting 29% from three on 5 a game.

In other words, if you want floor spacers around LeBron, Kuzma should be coming off the bench, Ingram should be moved to his natural position at the 3, and Josh Hart whom has been shooting 42% from three on more attempts per game than Kuzma.

So let's look at the three point shooting of that lineup

Lonzo Ball 38% from three
Josh Hart 42% from three
Brandon Ingram 35% from three (low volume)
LeBron James 35% from three (settling too much for it)
JaVale McGee (not his thing)

On top of that you have your best defenders on the floor as well to start games.

The reason you do that is because it's been stated (by you) that Kuzma does better when someone sets up the offense for him.

That's why being on the bench with Rondo would fit him well. Sadly Rondo won't be available for another 3-5 weeks.

You also say the lineup of Lonzo/Hart/LeBron/Kuzma/McGee is good defensively together in a VERY small sample size.

Considering that Kuzma is the weakest defender in that lineup, and Ingram is one of the stronger defemders on this team you could surmise in theory that the defense with Ingram in that lineup instead of Kuzma would be stronger, couldn't you?


As far as the opinion that people that want Ingram benched are only paying attention to offense. I disagree. But at the same time, I think a lot of people are letting slide not just how poor Kuzma has been defensively but ARE indeed ignoring how bad Kuzma has been from three this season.

If Kuzma doesn't have the three point advantage (currently) over Ingram, than there's no reason Kuzma should have the minutes or start priority over him. Because he can't defend as well as Ingram on top of that.

So as it stands, if you're benching anyone between Ingram and Kuzma, it's Kuzma. Because Kuzma is one of the team's worst defenders, and he's thus far shooting 29% from three so that isn't even an advantage right now over what Ingram is bringing.

So that is why you bench Kuzma if you have to decide between he and Ingram. If Kuzma was shooting 38-40% from three, there'd be more of an argument against it, but he's shooting 29% and terrible defensively. So if it's Ingram or Kuz that gets benched, it should be Kuz for all intents and purposes.

Both are a benefit to have on the team though, and it shouldn't become tribal warfare. You'd rather have them both on your team than not.


This is pretty much how I feel but I'm not articulate enough to make an argument this well lol
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