OFFICIAL KYLE KUZMANIA THREAD
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject:

Okay it was an arbitrary cut-off it was still a great performance. It was Kobe esque. He was in a zone. Too bad the game wasn't closer he could have gone for 50+.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Okay it was an arbitrary cut-off it was still a great performance. It was Kobe esque. He was in a zone. Too bad the game wasn't closer he could have gone for 50+.


At the end of the third last night Aldridge had 30 vs OKC. After two OT’s he had something like 54 points. Imagine if Kuzma had two OT’s that night?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject:

If he played in the 4th Kuz would have had 50.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
32 wrote:
Okay it was an arbitrary cut-off it was still a great performance. It was Kobe esque. He was in a zone. Too bad the game wasn't closer he could have gone for 50+.


At the end of the third last night Aldridge had 30 vs OKC. After two OT’s he had something like 54 points. Imagine if Kuzma had two OT’s that night?


It's hard to project because of fatigue etc. I would rather have 50 in four quarters then 55 in two overtimes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
If he played in the 4th Kuz would have had 50.


Or he would have aggravated his back and leave us with Brandon as the only offensive option for multiple games again. I’ll take the 41 and the W any day.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Let's say you can rate a player from 1-100.

Let's say, in my mind, I see Kuzma's ceiling at an (85) and Tatum's potential at an (85).

Let's say as of right now, I rate Kuzma as a (60) - age 23 and I rate Tatum as a (60) age 20.

One viewpoint is that, well, if Tatum is already a (60) at age 20, well then surely, he's going to become a better player than Kuzma, who's a (60) but at age 23.

I understand that viewpoint.

My viewpoint is, at some point, if they reach their potential, they're both going to top out at (85). So, then, age doesn't matter to ME.

So, age would matter to me if I thought Tatum's ceiling was higher than an (85). Maybe a (90) or (100). Then age would matter because he would need that extra time to develop. So to answer your question, if Tatum turns out to be a (90) or (100), I would be wrong.

And that's something I want to make clear. It's how I see things. I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. By all means, take age into consideration. That's cool.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. And I'm fine that you disagree.

But I fail to see the need to get snarky about it just because you disagree. I'm not in it to change your opinion. I'm just expressing my opinion. If you disagree, that's totally cool with me.


It's fine to express your opinion. But you started all this because I think it was yinoma said that the book isn't closed yet on Tatum who is still only 20 years old.

That's why I said, if you don't think Tatum will get there, then that's fine, just say so -- I don't see the need to go on a rant about how age doesn't matter when we've already agreed that in general it does, but just not for you in this one specific isolated case.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If he played in the 4th Kuz would have had 50.


Or he would have aggravated his back and leave us with Brandon as the only offensive option for multiple games again. I’ll take the 41 and the W any day.


+1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
If he played in the 4th Kuz would have had 50.


Or he would have aggravated his back and leave us with Brandon as the only offensive option for multiple games again. I’ll take the 41 and the W any day.


Oh, I'm obviously fine with the result. Just saying if he had to play in the 4th (i.e. close game) he would have probably gotten 50.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:19 pm    Post subject:

He'll get 50 one of these days, just keep hoisting it up Kuz
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
It's fine to express your opinion. But you started all this because I think it was yinoma said that the book isn't closed yet on Tatum who is still only 20 years old.

That's why I said, if you don't think Tatum will get there, then that's fine, just say so -- I don't see the need to go on a rant about how age doesn't matter when we've already agreed that in general it does, but just not for you in this one specific isolated case.


Isn't that exactly what I did? This is how I got into the conversation.

Seriously though, what is it that you have an issue with?


LongBeachPoly wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It is interesting that when the discussion inevitably centers around Kuz/BI, it is often mentioned that BI is 2 years younger than Kuz.

Well, Tatum is 3 years younger than Kuz.

Let's just be objective a bit.


Age doesn't matter TO ME because they're both going to be paid around the same.

In a couple of years, Boston's going to have to pay Tatum max money just like the Lakers have to pay Kuzma max money.

They'll both be making the same money at the same time so age doesn't matter from that standpoint.

It's not like Boston's going to get another 3 years of cheap labor from Tatum.

Now from a developmental standpoint, it's also not a given that the younger player will develop. Wiggins was a 19 year old when he was drafted? His development has stunted and now Minnesota is stuck having to pay him max money.

Has Tatum improved from last year? If he has, it's not a big improvement. At some point, he's going to have to have a break out season. Just because he's young doesn't mean it's guaranteed. Right now, he has no post up game. His game is 100% face up and from the perimeter. In order to make the next step into becoming a superstar, he has to become a great shooter. Right now, he doesn't get easy buckets. He takes alot of tough shots and he makes them.

He's good at creating shots but he doesn't create easy looks for himself.

Right now, he's a 16ppg scorer. I think the Celtics are holding him back. I think he could be a 20 ppg scorer as the no. 1 option. However, I don't know if I like him as the no. 1 option because he doesn't get a lot of easy buckets.

Kuzma sort of reminds me of Carmelo when he was in Denver. People used to say Carmelo got the easiest buckets in the NBA. Dude got got alot of easy looks. Kuzma gets alot of easy looks. His catch and release is so quick that they look really easy.

He moves without the ball well. It seems like he gets alot of easy looks during the game.

Here's a highlight of Tatum going off for 27 pts:

Look at how hard he has to work for alot of his shots. He was on fire from 3. In order for him to go off, he has to be hot from outside. None of his points came from the post or the paint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCf29B78Rl8
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject:

I don't get why they played other starters and didn't let Kuzma play.

Someone said it was because of his injury... but it was a bruise... not a muscle sprain or tear.

When players are on the verge of some personal landmark... they should be rewarded... whether it's a fifty point game... a no hitter... the sack record like Donald had a chance at...

It should be a reward for a job well done.

If there was a back to back... if he had a chronic injury problem... if it's the playoffs... all of those are good reasons to take him out.

Luke's decision in this case, baffled me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject:

If Kuzma puts up good scoring numbers today with Gobert and Favors manning the paint, it will be a great sign he can be a number 2 guy behind Lebron. Griffin got straight outrun by KUZ and for all of Jordan’s vaunted shot blocking, he’s actually not that great a paint presence. Gobert is 10x the defender Jordan is, and Favors won’t be standing there watching his shot brick while Kuzma leaks out for easy scores.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
So why do folks then assess our young Lakers (BI/Lonzo) differently than Tatum?

See the blatant double standard?

If we want to apply that equally, then please do so.


Very true, and I'm guilty of that sometimes. I think Tatum is definitively a better prospect than our guys (both the younger and "older" ones) at the moment, but it's not THAT far off and as other have already said, only time will tell. It's still so early. Just last year, who would've said that Fox is arguably the best looking pick of that 2017 bunch?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:32 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
So why do folks then assess our young Lakers (BI/Lonzo) differently than Tatum?

See the blatant double standard?

If we want to apply that equally, then please do so.


Very true, and I'm guilty of that sometimes. I think Tatum is definitively a better prospect than our guys (both the younger and "older" ones) at the moment

Obviously, for the most part it seems we're basing who's the best on offensive stats. I'm never going to get into PER, rpm, pia, aau, nfl, or any other acronyms, but as one poster previously wrote, Kuzma scores in easier ways than Tatum, and imo, that's the reason for the difference in their scoring.

Tatum starts from outside and uses his handles that he gets praised for, to do fancy moves that often result in jump shots. Sometimes he gets all the way to the rim.

Kuzma shoots outside or beats defenders off the dribble. He leaks out, constantly cuts backdoor, and when he's not doing that, he posts up spinning, floating, hooking, drop stepping, or falling away. He's even improving his ft's as we speak. Nothing about what Tatum does makes me wish I had his current abilities in the lineup instead of Kuzma's.


Last edited by lakersboy on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject:

I have been impressed with Kuz's D. He has improved and is actually a decent defender. He has really become a dynamic and multi faceted offensive player. His shot is money but his handles and ability to drive to the basket (along with those floaters and touch near the basket) is impressive. He has also improved in moving without the ball. I would like to think he is the closet pup to being untouchable (if ever there was one).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject:

As Kuzma improves and becomes more familiar with his variety of ways to score, I expect him to be a top 10 scorer in the league, very soon. At the same time, his inconsistency will lessen. Another off season of body building and the work he did this summer will make him the type of scorer the team seeks in superstar #2, imo.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject:

We know Blake isn't a great defender and the Jazz are known for defense, so the question is whether it's reasonable to expect another good game from Kuz?

I don't expect 41, but I get the feeling his increased scoring has gone to the next level and is on display for the world to see. If he does get 40......watch out league.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject:

His confidence is off the charts. What kind of kid goes 4-20 shooting and the very next game is right back at it shooting without hesitation. And the first three 3 pointers he attempted against the Pistons he missed. lol
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
His confidence is off the charts. What kind of kid goes 4-20 shooting and the very next game is right back at it shooting without hesitation. And the first three 3 pointers he attempted against the Pistons he missed. lol



Natural born scorers. They have a few things in common:

1. They are gifted physically to shoot, dribble, and get their own shots

2. They are gifted mentally. They absolutely know (though not always true) the next one is going in.

3. They've had enough success with their abilities to seldom, if ever, doubt themselves.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Let's say you can rate a player from 1-100.

Let's say, in my mind, I see Kuzma's ceiling at an (85) and Tatum's potential at an (85).

Let's say as of right now, I rate Kuzma as a (60) - age 23 and I rate Tatum as a (60) age 20.

One viewpoint is that, well, if Tatum is already a (60) at age 20, well then surely, he's going to become a better player than Kuzma, who's a (60) but at age 23.

I understand that viewpoint.

My viewpoint is, at some point, if they reach their potential, they're both going to top out at (85). So, then, age doesn't matter to ME.

So, age would matter to me if I thought Tatum's ceiling was higher than an (85). Maybe a (90) or (100). Then age would matter because he would need that extra time to develop. So to answer your question, if Tatum turns out to be a (90) or (100), I would be wrong.

And that's something I want to make clear. It's how I see things. I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. By all means, take age into consideration. That's cool.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. And I'm fine that you disagree.

But I fail to see the need to get snarky about it just because you disagree. I'm not in it to change your opinion. I'm just expressing my opinion. If you disagree, that's totally cool with me.


It's fine to express your opinion. But you started all this because I think it was yinoma said that the book isn't closed yet on Tatum who is still only 20 years old.

That's why I said, if you don't think Tatum will get there, then that's fine, just say so -- I don't see the need to go on a rant about how age doesn't matter when we've already agreed that in general it does, but just not for you in this one specific isolated case.


I look at age but I also look at trajectory. I think Kuzma has improved more from last year than Tatum is. And I also think Kuzma improved the year before more than Tatum did. So it could be that Tatum, though younger, is reaching his ceiling, but that Kuzma, even though older, is on a more steady improvement track.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Let's say you can rate a player from 1-100.

Let's say, in my mind, I see Kuzma's ceiling at an (85) and Tatum's potential at an (85).

Let's say as of right now, I rate Kuzma as a (60) - age 23 and I rate Tatum as a (60) age 20.

One viewpoint is that, well, if Tatum is already a (60) at age 20, well then surely, he's going to become a better player than Kuzma, who's a (60) but at age 23.

I understand that viewpoint.

My viewpoint is, at some point, if they reach their potential, they're both going to top out at (85). So, then, age doesn't matter to ME.

So, age would matter to me if I thought Tatum's ceiling was higher than an (85). Maybe a (90) or (100). Then age would matter because he would need that extra time to develop. So to answer your question, if Tatum turns out to be a (90) or (100), I would be wrong.

And that's something I want to make clear. It's how I see things. I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. By all means, take age into consideration. That's cool.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. And I'm fine that you disagree.

But I fail to see the need to get snarky about it just because you disagree. I'm not in it to change your opinion. I'm just expressing my opinion. If you disagree, that's totally cool with me.


It's fine to express your opinion. But you started all this because I think it was yinoma said that the book isn't closed yet on Tatum who is still only 20 years old.

That's why I said, if you don't think Tatum will get there, then that's fine, just say so -- I don't see the need to go on a rant about how age doesn't matter when we've already agreed that in general it does, but just not for you in this one specific isolated case.


I look at age but I also look at trajectory. I think Kuzma has improved more from last year than Tatum is. And I also think Kuzma improved the year before more than Tatum did. So it could be that Tatum, though younger, is reaching his ceiling, but that Kuzma, even though older, is on a more steady improvement track.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Let's say you can rate a player from 1-100.

Let's say, in my mind, I see Kuzma's ceiling at an (85) and Tatum's potential at an (85).

Let's say as of right now, I rate Kuzma as a (60) - age 23 and I rate Tatum as a (60) age 20.

One viewpoint is that, well, if Tatum is already a (60) at age 20, well then surely, he's going to become a better player than Kuzma, who's a (60) but at age 23.

I understand that viewpoint.

My viewpoint is, at some point, if they reach their potential, they're both going to top out at (85). So, then, age doesn't matter to ME.

So, age would matter to me if I thought Tatum's ceiling was higher than an (85). Maybe a (90) or (100). Then age would matter because he would need that extra time to develop. So to answer your question, if Tatum turns out to be a (90) or (100), I would be wrong.

And that's something I want to make clear. It's how I see things. I'm not trying to convince you to see things my way. By all means, take age into consideration. That's cool.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. And I'm fine that you disagree.

But I fail to see the need to get snarky about it just because you disagree. I'm not in it to change your opinion. I'm just expressing my opinion. If you disagree, that's totally cool with me.


It's fine to express your opinion. But you started all this because I think it was yinoma said that the book isn't closed yet on Tatum who is still only 20 years old.

That's why I said, if you don't think Tatum will get there, then that's fine, just say so -- I don't see the need to go on a rant about how age doesn't matter when we've already agreed that in general it does, but just not for you in this one specific isolated case.


I look at age but I also look at trajectory. I think Kuzma has improved more from last year than Tatum is. And I also think Kuzma improved the year before more than Tatum did. So it could be that Tatum, though younger, is reaching his ceiling, but that Kuzma, even though older, is on a more steady improvement track.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
32 wrote:
His confidence is off the charts. What kind of kid goes 4-20 shooting and the very next game is right back at it shooting without hesitation. And the first three 3 pointers he attempted against the Pistons he missed. lol


Natural born scorers. They have a few things in common:

1. They are gifted physically to shoot, dribble, and get their own shots

2. They are gifted mentally. They absolutely know (though not always true) the next one is going in.

3. They've had enough success with their abilities to seldom, if ever, doubt themselves.


I see a lot of Kobe characteristics in him which is kind of scary.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject:

^So true. Also reminded me of this article:
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/12/13/18139311/lakers-kyle-kuzma-kobe-bryant-texts-him-advice-workout-shooting-stats-mentor
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Anyone else feel like Kuzma could go off tonight?
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