OFFICIAL KYLE KUZMANIA THREAD (joining team USA in august, p519, recruiting kawhi?, p524)
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3baller
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:04 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...

Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1

Which mean's were better if Kuz is on the floor than without and about a tinnie bit worse with BI on the floor.

And how about durability? BI played 79, 59 and 52 games the in his first 3 seasons to Kuz's 77 and 70.

So...


Yea so I guess that settles it lol..


Waiting for a more fact based argument than blah blah blah lollerzkatez


I don't really have a fact based argument for you.. neither did you present one.

You guys throw out numbers, then you extrapolate a narrative from it. You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact.


Uhhh what are we supposed to do with advanced numbers? Just stare at it?

How else are you supposed to gauge players? Good ole no-bias eye test?

If BI has better advanced numbers than Kuz, you guys would have already used it. Don't give me that bs
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...

Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1

Which mean's were better if Kuz is on the floor than without and about a tinnie bit worse with BI on the floor.

And how about durability? BI played 79, 59 and 52 games the in his first 3 seasons to Kuz's 77 and 70.

So...


Yea so I guess that settles it lol..


Waiting for a more fact based argument than blah blah blah lollerzkatez


I don't really have a fact based argument for you.. neither did you present one.

You guys throw out numbers, then you extrapolate a narrative from it. You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact.


Uhhh what are we supposed to do with advanced numbers? Just stare at it?


Think about what I said.. "You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact."

Those numbers will give you a narrative.. I'm simply saying your interpretation is an informed opinion. Not a fact. I can't prove to you that Ingram is the better talent.

I could throw out numbers that show Kuz is one of the worst players in the league at creating and converting his own shot. (Ingram among the leagues best at 21) Or that he was one of the worst high volume 3 point shooters in the league to support my argument. But still what would it prove? There is always a counter argument..

I'd prefer not to be involved in these kind of exchanges because I don't like dumping on our players. I like all of them. =)
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3baller
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:30 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...

Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1

Which mean's were better if Kuz is on the floor than without and about a tinnie bit worse with BI on the floor.

And how about durability? BI played 79, 59 and 52 games the in his first 3 seasons to Kuz's 77 and 70.

So...


Yea so I guess that settles it lol..


Waiting for a more fact based argument than blah blah blah lollerzkatez


I don't really have a fact based argument for you.. neither did you present one.

You guys throw out numbers, then you extrapolate a narrative from it. You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact.


Uhhh what are we supposed to do with advanced numbers? Just stare at it?


Think about what I said.. "You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact."

Those numbers will give you a narrative.. I'm simply saying your interpretation is an informed opinion. Not a fact. I can't prove to you that Ingram is the better talent.

I could throw out numbers that show Kuz is one of the worst players in the league at creating and converting his own shot. (Ingram among the leagues best at 21) Or that he was one of the worst high volume 3 point shooters in the league to support my argument. But still what would it prove? There is always a counter argument..

I'd prefer not to be involved in these kind of exchanges because I don't like dumping on our players. I like all of them. =)


Again I ask. What else are you gonna depend on to gauge players if not advanced stats especially those that try to encapsulate total player impact or just stats in general?

The weather channel don't always get it right but we depend on that (bleep) because that's the best way to know whether it's gonna rain or not.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...

Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1

Which mean's were better if Kuz is on the floor than without and about a tinnie bit worse with BI on the floor.

And how about durability? BI played 79, 59 and 52 games the in his first 3 seasons to Kuz's 77 and 70.

So...


Yea so I guess that settles it lol..


Waiting for a more fact based argument than blah blah blah lollerzkatez


I don't really have a fact based argument for you.. neither did you present one.

You guys throw out numbers, then you extrapolate a narrative from it. You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact.


Uhhh what are we supposed to do with advanced numbers? Just stare at it?


Think about what I said.. "You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact."

Those numbers will give you a narrative.. I'm simply saying your interpretation is an informed opinion. Not a fact. I can't prove to you that Ingram is the better talent.

I could throw out numbers that show Kuz is one of the worst players in the league at creating and converting his own shot. (Ingram among the leagues best at 21) Or that he was one of the worst high volume 3 point shooters in the league to support my argument. But still what would it prove? There is always a counter argument..

I'd prefer not to be involved in these kind of exchanges because I don't like dumping on our players. I like all of them. =)


Again I ask. What else are you gonna depend on to gauge players if not advanced stats especially those that try to encapsulate total player impact or just stats in general?

The weather channel don't always get it right but we depend on that (bleep) because that's the best way to know whether it's gonna rain or not.


You're talking past me boss..

I'm okay with you using whatever tools you deem credible to formulate your view. I'm simply saying there is no factual argument to be presented as a counter. Which is what you asked me for.

We can throw interpretations of data at each other till we're blue in the face, and still not have established who's definitively right or wrong. Which makes the exercise futile. I've seen it play out on many occasion. I'm sure you have as well.
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3baller
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...

Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1

Which mean's were better if Kuz is on the floor than without and about a tinnie bit worse with BI on the floor.

And how about durability? BI played 79, 59 and 52 games the in his first 3 seasons to Kuz's 77 and 70.

So...


Yea so I guess that settles it lol..


Waiting for a more fact based argument than blah blah blah lollerzkatez


I don't really have a fact based argument for you.. neither did you present one.

You guys throw out numbers, then you extrapolate a narrative from it. You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact.


Uhhh what are we supposed to do with advanced numbers? Just stare at it?


Think about what I said.. "You're confusing your interpretation of the data with fact."

Those numbers will give you a narrative.. I'm simply saying your interpretation is an informed opinion. Not a fact. I can't prove to you that Ingram is the better talent.

I could throw out numbers that show Kuz is one of the worst players in the league at creating and converting his own shot. (Ingram among the leagues best at 21) Or that he was one of the worst high volume 3 point shooters in the league to support my argument. But still what would it prove? There is always a counter argument..

I'd prefer not to be involved in these kind of exchanges because I don't like dumping on our players. I like all of them. =)


Again I ask. What else are you gonna depend on to gauge players if not advanced stats especially those that try to encapsulate total player impact or just stats in general?

The weather channel don't always get it right but we depend on that (bleep) because that's the best way to know whether it's gonna rain or not.


You're talking past me boss..

I'm okay with you using whatever tools you deem credible to formulate your view. I'm simply saying there is no factual argument to be presented as a counter. Which is what you asked me for.

We can throw interpretations of data at each other till we're blue in the face, and still not have established who's definitively right or wrong. Which makes the exercise futile. I've seen it play out on many occasion. I'm sure you have as well.


That's ridiculous. You're saying that it's impossible to draw, not facts, but definitive conclusions using stats? It's impossible to agree to a conclusion that Shaq is better than Shawn Bradley because Shawn might be a better free throw shooter than Shaq?

All I'm trying to debunk here is the notion that Kuz is that much worse than BI which seems to be the consensus among fans. And that notion comes from biased views. I'm not trying to nitpick obscure stats. Stats and advanced stats allow us to see past the bias. And fortunately or unfortunately, it tells us that Kuz is a lot closer to BI than people might think.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Well your stats indicated that he was a better player.. =)

My point is narratives can be created with them, that may not be true.

And since a narrative can be created that may not line up with reality, they can't be relied upon entirely to make an assessment that should be characterized as fact.
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3baller
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:16 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Well your stats indicated that he was a better player.. =)

My point is narratives can be created with them, that may not be true.

And since a narrative can be created that may not line up with reality, they can't be relied upon entirely to make an assessment that should be characterized as fact.


Nope never said Kuz is better. Just laid out commonly used advanced stats. Didn't mention any obscure stat just to prove a point. You can read and reread my initial posts till you're blue in the face

On the contrary, I'm not trying to create a narrative but trying to debunk one using facts(stats) and not eye-tests under rose colored glasses.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:22 pm    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Well your stats indicated that he was a better player.. =)

My point is narratives can be created with them, that may not be true.

And since a narrative can be created that may not line up with reality, they can't be relied upon entirely to make an assessment that should be characterized as fact.


Nope never said Kuz is better. Just laid out commonly used advanced stats. Didn't mention any obscure stat just to prove a point. You can read and reread my initial posts till you're blue in the face

On the contrary, I'm not trying to create a narrative but trying to debunk one using facts(stats) and not eye-tests under rose colored glasses.


Maybe you need to do the rereading.. it's why I said you're talking past me.
"Well your stats indicated that he was a better player.." I shouldn't have to keep explaining myself..

At this point me and you should call it a night.
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Kobesystem
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Doesn't matter whose better because Kuzma is the best fit on a lebron team over INgram and Ball...
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Kuz is in China right now I think
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eureca
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject:

eureca wrote:
Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight


Quote:
kuz @kylekuzma

This was karma from the spurs series when kawhi got hurt vs the warriors. Sucks to say.


Kawhi's future teammate?
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject:

Kyle β€œClout Chasin” Kuzma
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:49 pm    Post subject:

As he matures I think he'll learn that some things are better left unsaid.. Especially if you're a public figure.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:23 am    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...
Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1


Olynyk RPM = 2.07
J. Winslow RPM = 2.05
Josh Richardson RPM = 1.79
Dragic RPM = 0.75

Dwight Powell net on/off = +1.7
Doncic net on/off= -1.8

Your injury point is valid. Availability is still an ability.
But, if it only took two stats to find out who's the better player. There wouldn't be so many bad GMs in the league.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:27 am    Post subject:

Also those stats you brought up for Kuz and Ingram were bad for both players. So by using those stats you're pretty much arguing Kuz was less bad. And being less bad isn't a great qualification for championship basketball.
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:48 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
eureca wrote:
Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight


Quote:
kuz @kylekuzma

This was karma from the spurs series when kawhi got hurt vs the warriors. Sucks to say.


Kawhi's future teammate?

Kissing butt is kuzmas main strength
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Lakeshow323
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject:

Kuz putting in that Kawhi work
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject:

eureca wrote:
Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight


Quote:
kuz @kylekuzma

This was karma from the spurs series when kawhi got hurt vs the warriors. Sucks to say.


And was his play at the end of the season karma for him assuming that it wasn't because he had Lonzo and LeBron feeding him?
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kobe_4_mvp
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:24 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
epak wrote:
eureca wrote:
Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight


Quote:
kuz @kylekuzma

This was karma from the spurs series when kawhi got hurt vs the warriors. Sucks to say.


Kawhi's future teammate?

Kissing butt is kuzmas main strength


i wanna see the advanced stats for brown nosing.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:26 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
epak wrote:
eureca wrote:
Just noticed Kuz made Warriors fans very angry tonight


Quote:
kuz @kylekuzma

This was karma from the spurs series when kawhi got hurt vs the warriors. Sucks to say.


Kawhi's future teammate?

Kissing butt is kuzmas main strength


Maybe he should stick to wooing Jeanie so he can stay in LA.
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3baller
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:22 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
3baller wrote:
Oh oh oh and...
Kuz ORPM 0.77, DRPm -0.77, RPM = 0.00
BI ORPM -1.77, DRPM -0.54, RPM = -1.77

Kuz net on/off = +1.7
BI net on/off = -0.1


Olynyk RPM = 2.07
J. Winslow RPM = 2.05
Josh Richardson RPM = 1.79
Dragic RPM = 0.75

Dwight Powell net on/off = +1.7
Doncic net on/off= -1.8

Your injury point is valid. Availability is still an ability.
But, if it only took two stats to find out who's the better player. There wouldn't be so many bad GMs in the league.


Nope, 2 stats obviously not enough to compare players and definitively declare a winner. But that wasn't what I was trying to do. I clearly stated in my previous posts that the goal was to debunk the notion that Kuz is clearly inferior to BI and those 2 stats would at least stop hardcore fans from proclaiming BI as the far superior player, at least in the present.

kikanga wrote:
Also those stats you brought up for Kuz and Ingram were bad for both players. So by using those stats you're pretty much arguing Kuz was less bad. And being less bad isn't a great qualification for championship basketball.


Kuz and BI right now are at best above average NBA players. No shame in that. Both are young and they're on the right trajectory.
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epak
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Seriously, this guy?
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drae
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject:

I'm devastated we didn't keep Ingram

This guy better develop to be the next Kobe, because Ingram's a future star
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epak
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
I'm devastated we didn't keep Ingram

This guy better develop to be the next Kobe, because Ingram's a future star


He's good per $ cost
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