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KindCrippler2000
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 Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Kuzma is 22 today, making him one of the oldest players on the team.  |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Yea, after no more than a summer league, Kuzma isn't untouchable. That label doesn't come for a late first round pick until, at the least, they play a few actual NBA games against actual NBA competition in a format that amounts to more than a high end pick up game. |
Sure...if you could be less dismissive about his talent, shooting, fit with Lonzo, SL performance, and contract.
And once he plays some NBA games and you see what he can be in 3 years...and compare that with Larry...which would you rather have on the team?
Me? I want both...but Larry's never come close to doing what Kuz did...or am I seeing a Goudelock mirage...
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | ^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan. |
Even if Kuzma is everything a pro he showed in summer league, he's not untradable.
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks  |
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NYClakerguy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| If you don't want to trade kuzma for kyrie yous a fool |
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€H£M£$TR¥
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Joined: 03 Apr 2017
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| NYClakerguy wrote: | | If you don't want to trade kuzma for kyrie yous a fool |
For the record, I'm a fool.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| NYClakerguy wrote: | | If you don't want to trade kuzma for kyrie yous a fool |
Expendable players like Kuzma will be traded in a heartbeat if Cavs offered Kyrie. Only Lonzo and Ingram are the Eliot Ness in this squad. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | "It's just Summer League"
But Kuzma shows out and now he's "untouchable" like Ingram.
Alright then.
Let's go on the two things that can translate from Summer League.
His jumper and his hustle.
Everything else we need to wait and see against actual NBA competition before we jump at him being the savior. . |
He had a problem creating his own shot for the most part but I like that spin move. We will see if that one will work in actual NBA games. But I like his game, can shoot, can defend and he can move the ball with good passing instinct. |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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You do excellent work, thanks. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | MJST wrote: | "It's just Summer League"
But Kuzma shows out and now he's "untouchable" like Ingram.
Alright then.
Let's go on the two things that can translate from Summer League.
His jumper and his hustle.
Everything else we need to wait and see against actual NBA competition before we jump at him being the savior. . |
He had a problem creating his own shot for the most part but I like that spin move. We will see if that one will work in actual NBA games. But I like his game, can shoot, can defend and he can move the ball with good passing instinct. |
It's difficult to derive translatable elements from just summer league play, but I see him as an excellent off ball player his first few seasons in the league. At 22 years of age, he's more NBA ready than half of the prospects picked in the top 15 (age, improperly perceived upside were possibly two of the reasons he was drafted so late). He's obviously more physically developed than most of his draft class, and the NBA strength training regimen will make him no pushover on the defensive end. Positioning-wise, I love his defensive instincts and the ability to front defenders. I see him holding his own on the defensive end. It's just a matter of how much of the rookie treatment the refs will give him.
Offensively, I'm skeptical about his shot creation ability, but if he develops a respectable back to the basket game, then opponents will have to adjust their coverages when he's on the floor. I do think his scoring output will be a function of who he's paired with in the rotations. If he's paired with Lonzo (+ Ingram), he'll thrive in the transition game. If he's paired with Ingram (+ Lonzo), then he'll be more open than he's ever been in his life, just by virtue of the attention Ingram started attracting from defenses in the 2nd half of last season. In most cases, I believe his primary job will be to defend, run the break or navigate screens to get open. He should be able to get 10 ppg or more easily if he does that.
There's a benefit to having high 3-4 high IQ players on the court at the same time. It changes the dimension of the game, and players are able to pick apart defenses with their passing (see Spurs system). I think the trio of Lonzo-Ingram-Kuz can do some serious damage in the future. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | ^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan. |
I think it's sane for both of us to say these are our opinions rather then acting as if we have definitive knowledge as to the inner workings of Magic and Rob's minds don't you?
Personally, I'm very comfortable saying that over 8 games this 27th pick, you repeatedly like to remind everyone of, looked like a top 5 pick and a modern NBA 4 with incredible range and then extrapolating, that based upon that he has vaulted himself into untouchable status when you factor in the contract that he'll be on for 4 years.
Untouchable meaning that short of KD or Steph or 27 year old LeBron or 24 year old Shaq being available he will not be included in a trade package and he will not be Pau dangled to see what bites either.
The possibility of Zo to Kuz on rookie contracts for 4 years is simply too great of an asset to consider parting with.
You say...it's only SL...I say yeah, and he destroyed the competition. So after watching SL for 21 years it's kind of easy to see which guys (Kuz/Lillard/Steph/Kobe) will translate and which (That short guy from Cleveland) will not.
But to each our own.
If Kuz is a wash out I'll come back and own what I've said.
If he's the stud he appears to be...will you do the same?
EDIT Original: GT says at repeatedly in the video above that he expects Zo and Kuz to be running a specific action for 10 years together...does that sound like GT sees an untouchable player or is he prone to hyperbole?
Last I check GT is the 'IT' when it comes to evaluating talent and how they fit with scheme...just sayin LS...just sayin...
GTs Response: "Man, don't bring my name into this. I'd hitch a wagon to my back like a donkey and walk Kuzma to LAX if that's all it took to get Kyrie."
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Last edited by CervantesRises on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | NYClakerguy wrote: | | If you don't want to trade kuzma for kyrie yous a fool |
For the record, I'm a fool. |
I'm Foolio LeFool McFoolFool the 1st of His Name from House Fool
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Runway8
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Magic Johnson will put his fist out as if asking for a fist bump, and when Kuzma reaches out, Magic will slap the handcuffs on him and personally take him to the airport on a one way ticket to Cleveland... that is if Cleveland would be dumb enough to deal Kyrie for Kuzma.
I like the kid, but c'mon. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | Magic Johnson will put his fist out as if asking for a fist bump, and when Kuzma reaches out, Magic will slap the handcuffs on him and personally take him to the airport on a one way ticket to Cleveland... that is if Cleveland would be dumb enough to deal Kyrie for Kuzma.
I like the kid, but c'mon. |
Magic will single handedly destroy his cap and team chemistry to create fights over who starts at the 1 for a player who needs the ball and doesn't play D and in doing so terminate any hope he had of attracting LBJ which would guarantee at least 1 other max guy in 2018...all while giving up a player that is a straight baller who also happens to be from Flint which is about 30 minutes from where he grew up.
So you're down with Ball coming off the bench for Kyrie...or us pissing off Rich Paul just as we're trying to build an actual team?
For what...points?
Kyrie is nice...there is no denying it...be he does not fit at all what we are doing in how he plays or his contract or the ramifications of him joining our roster in light of what is on the horizon.
Too many of y'all are 2K plug and play heads...there's more going on than PPG.
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan. |
I think it's sane for both of us to say these are our opinions rather then acting as if we have definitive knowledge as to the inner workings of Magic and Rob's minds don't you?
Personally, I'm very comfortable saying that over 8 games this 27th pick, you repeatedly like to remind everyone of, looked like a top 5 pick and a modern NBA 4 with incredible range and then extrapolating, that based upon that he has vaulted himself into untouchable status when you factor in the contract that he'll be on for 4 years.
Untouchable meaning that short of KD or Steph or 27 year old LeBron or 24 year old Shaq being available he will not be included in a trade package and he will not be Pau dangled to see what bites either.
The possibility of Zo to Kuz on rookie contracts for 4 years is simply too great of an asset to consider parting with.
You say...it's only SL...I say yeah, and he destroyed the competition. So after watching SL for 21 years it's kind of easy to see which guys (Kuz/Lillard/Steph/Kobe) will translate and which (That short guy from Cleveland) will not.
But to each our own.
If Kuz is a wash out I'll come back and own what I've said.
If he's the stud he appears to be...will you do the same?
EDIT: GT says at repeatedly in the video above that he expects Zo and Kuz to be running a specific action for 10 years together...does that sound like GT sees an untouchable player or is he prone to hyperbole?
Last I check GT is the 'IT' when it comes to evaluating talent and how they fit with scheme...just sayin LS...just sayin... |
Man, don't bring my name into this. I'd hitch a wagon to my back like a donkey and walk Kuzma to LAX if that's all it took to get Kyrie. |
All righty then...consider the edit updated.
I'll be an army of one and say I think all of you are cray cray.
Team Chemistry: Kyrie wants to be the man so he'd force either Lonzo or KCP to sit.
2018 Dream: Kyrie ends not only the LBJ dream but any other max that would want to play with him. And eats up our cap. How many max players you think are lining up to come play with Kyrie?
Defense: How does he help with that?
Any trade package for Kyrie that included Ball, BI and/or Kuz would be pitchforks for me...when God gives you a winning lottery ticket you say 'thank you'...you don't give it away for problems.
I like Kyrie...love his mamba mentality in the finals...completely understand what he's doing and why he's doing it...and respect the pre-emptiveness of it on a huge level...
Still want nothing to do with that type of player here, especially after seeing the type of game Lonzo and Kuz bring.
Time will tell who's right on this...I'm very comfortable with where I stand.
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: |
EDIT: GT says at repeatedly in the video above that he expects Zo and Kuz to be running a specific action for 10 years together...does that sound like GT sees an untouchable player or is he prone to hyperbole?
Last I check GT is the 'IT' when it comes to evaluating talent and how they fit with scheme...just sayin LS...just sayin... |
Man, don't bring my name into this. I'd hitch a wagon to my back like a donkey and walk Kuzma to LAX if that's all it took to get Kyrie. |
I'm obsessed with Kuzma, but I'd also offer to sit on the wagon and whip GT to get their faster. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Not a big fan of Irving's game because he is a very bad defender.
I like Kuz a lot, he plays both sides of the floor. Considering we have Lonzo at PG, not sure why we would want to bring in Irving who appears to want to run the show.
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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are we really debating kyle kuzma vs kyrie mother effing irving right now
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levon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: |
EDIT: GT says at repeatedly in the video above that he expects Zo and Kuz to be running a specific action for 10 years together...does that sound like GT sees an untouchable player or is he prone to hyperbole?
Last I check GT is the 'IT' when it comes to evaluating talent and how they fit with scheme...just sayin LS...just sayin... |
Man, don't bring my name into this. I'd hitch a wagon to my back like a donkey and walk Kuzma to LAX if that's all it took to get Kyrie. |
I'm obsessed with Kuzma, but I'd also offer to sit on the wagon and whip GT to get their faster. |
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Kava
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | are we really debating kyle kuzma vs kyrie mother effing irving right now |
There's something to be said about rooting for our own home grown talent who 26 teams passed on. Not to mention the almost instantaneous mojo/chemistry he and Ball seemed to have right from the get go.
It's really a moot point because Kyrie aint comin. He's one of my fav players in the league - 1v1 skills while dribbling are the best I've ever seen for his size & position.
Back to Kuz - love the kid. Love the drop step/spin moves highlighted in GT's vid above ^. Worthy'esque on a couple of'em. |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Kava wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | are we really debating kyle kuzma vs kyrie mother effing irving right now |
There's something to be said about rooting for our own home grown talent who 26 teams passed on. Not to mention the almost instantaneous mojo/chemistry he and Ball seemed to have right from the get go.
It's really a moot point because Kyrie aint comin. He's one of my fav players in the league - 1v1 skills while dribbling are the best I've ever seen for his size & position.
Back to Kuz - love the kid. Love the drop step/spin moves highlighted in GT's vid above ^. Worthy'esque on a couple of'em. |
i mean i've been pimping kuzma since before we even drafted him but i wouldn't even think twice. kyrie is amazing and still only 25. but yes, moot point.
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dao
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | Kava wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | are we really debating kyle kuzma vs kyrie mother effing irving right now |
There's something to be said about rooting for our own home grown talent who 26 teams passed on. Not to mention the almost instantaneous mojo/chemistry he and Ball seemed to have right from the get go.
It's really a moot point because Kyrie aint comin. He's one of my fav players in the league - 1v1 skills while dribbling are the best I've ever seen for his size & position.
Back to Kuz - love the kid. Love the drop step/spin moves highlighted in GT's vid above ^. Worthy'esque on a couple of'em. |
i mean i've been pimping kuzma since before we even drafted him but i wouldn't even think twice. kyrie is amazing and still only 25. but yes, moot point. |
Kyrie would be a poor fit next to Lonzo. I shouldn't really say poor, it would probably be very nice offensively if Irving bought into a Lonzo-centric stylr of play. But they would get SHREDDED defensively.
Obviously you have do a hypothetical Kyrie for Kuzma swap if given the opportunity. But then you turn right around and trade Kyrie for something that fits your roster better. It's moot though because the Cavs will get a good haul for Irving. Kuzma isn't even in the ball park in terms of what it would take to get Irving (who we shouldn't really want anyway). |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan. |
Even if Kuzma is everything a pro he showed in summer league, he's not untradable. |
I'm hopeful Kuz is just the first of many "solid rotation guys" that Lonzo (mistakenly) makes other GMs see "potential all-star with more minutes/opportunities." |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | ^You may see him as untouchable and you may be right about his potential, but that's not what I was talking about. I was referring to the opinions of those who really matter - the Lakers FO. They aren't going to label a guy picked at #27 untouchable just because he played well in some summer league games. Takes more than that, as it should for any reasonable basketball fan. |
Even if Kuzma is everything a pro he showed in summer league, he's not untradable. |
A little nit picky, but I disagree here. Kuzma was a 25 point scorer on 48 percent from three, showed himself to be a credible playmaker and rebounder, and showed an ability to play very well defensively on the perimeter in the Summer League. If he's the player as a pro as he was in Summer League, he's untouchable.
What makes him not untouchable now is that history is littered with guys who dominated summer league and were just average or barely hanging on in the NBA kind of guys once they faced NBA level defenses and competition. A week or two where you're on fire from three also can't be depended upon to be sustainable in the NBA either. But if the Lakers knew for sure that everything he showed in Summer League would translate to the pro level, then he's one of the top prospects on par with any top draft pick of the last decade you'd care to name. |
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